Does anyone know where I can get a ruleset for this world? My wife wants to play a Confessor. For some reason I think she'll excel at this PC more than any other she has played.
Someone asked Terry Goodkind in a Q&A whether there was going to be a SWORD OF TRUTH roleplaying supplement. His reply was that there had been offers but he wasn't going to sell the rights because his series of books was about Sweeping Important Human Themes and to turn it into a game would Denigrate Its Moral Value or something.
Yes, Terry Goodkind is a bit of a headcase.
Of course, he said the same thing about a TV adaptation until Raimi threw enough money at him to change his mind, so the same could be true with the game rights. There is also the possibility that ABC have a separate deal of the merchandising rights for the TV series, so a LEGEND OF THE SEEKER-logoed RPG could be a possibility in the future.
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Assuming nobody finds this done up somewhere, I would think it would be a fun class-building exercise. Use some rogue/scout-like melee abilities combined with spontaneous casting of charm/zone-of-truth type spells. I'd be interested in seeing what somebody comes up with.
I have never made a class before. I've always tended to do stuff out of various books and I would LOVE to get some help on making this!
Thanks David, Werthead & derek!!!
Does anyone know where I can get a ruleset for this world? My wife wants to play a Confessor. For some reason I think she'll excel at this PC more than any other she has played.
Sword of Truth RPG seems to be an ongoing shared-world game set in the SoT universe. Even if you don't want to join their game, someone on those forums ought to have some pointers.
And also, making a class is fun - this point-based system is designed to help you build a balanced 3.5e class. GURPS probably has a supplement that would give you some ideas as well, but I'm not up-to-date on that system. As for a 4e class, I'd wager that the DMG2 (out in Sept.) will have some info/instructions along those lines. Good luck!
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So I've been using the system that mandisaw posted up and trying my best, but I still need some input. Here's what I have so far and my reasons behind them.
Keep in mind I've only watched a couple episodes of the TV show and have not read the books!!
Confessor
hit die: d8
Kahlan seems to kick butt in alot of episodes, but not overpowering like a fighter would.
Can wear light armor only
I've seen Kahlan in armor before, so it makes sense.
Can use simple weapons
Does she use what we would consider Martial Weapons at all?
Skill points (4+INT)x4
From what I've seen Kahlan knows alot, but not everything.
Alignment/sex restrictions: No Evil and must be female
From what I understand, evil confessors are killed young and are usually male.
Attack bonus as clerics (3.5 PHB)
Like I said under the hit die, Kahlan kicks butt. She's just not a fighter.
Saves as a cleric (3.5 PHB)
See above.
Skills 11-15
I haven't the foggiest on what skills she would have!
Divine Grace (Paladin skill, 3.5 PHB)
It just sounded like a good idea.
Fast Movement
Kahlan seems to come out of nowhere alot in the show, so it makes sense to me!
I still have 60 points left and haven't figured out how to do her "Confessor Power". Any ideas??
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Skills 11-15
I haven't the foggiest on what skills she would have!
Skills that would seem appropriate for a Confessor;
Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spot.Note that Kaylin has also demonstrated skills like Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate and Ride, but those, IMO, probably aren't your standard Confessor fare... (Then again, perhaps Intimidate is!)
The only ones I would consider graven in stone are Diplomacy and Sense Motive. It's kind of the core of what they do, identifying truth and resolving / arbitrating conflict.
As for teh Confession power itself, it wouldn't be balanced for game use as strictly shown, but a lesser scaling version might work well for game use.
1st level, start with charm person intensity, perhaps, then move up to dominate person/monster scale. The number and level of persons affected would also scale, so that a 1st level Confessor might be able to have a single 1/2 HD humanoid, or 1st level NPC class person 'confessed' as a cohort. Or perhaps no permanant cohort-level confessees at all until 2nd level.
The number of confessees could indeed be more than what the Leadership involves, since the cohorts would represent the class abilities of the Confessor, and not just a feat strapped onto an already fully functional class. As with a Rebuke/Command Cleric, the Confessor would have a certain number of HD / levels that could be confessed at one time, and some, like Kaylin, would keep no 'permanant cohorts' around, to keep her 'slots free' for use during the adventure to pick up temporary allies, while others might have a small retinue of Confessed people, and have difficult choices to make if she wants to confess someone mid-adventure (having to 'release' one of her previously Confessed people).
Obviously this would not be like the canonical Confessor, who could confess / enslave half of the free world at 1st level, if she wanted to, and whose confession is only ended by death! Such a character really wouldn't be very playable, IMO.
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Here's what I've done!! Let me know what you think!
Confessor
1) Hit Die: d8
2) Skill points: (4+INT)x4 at 1st level, 4+INT after that
Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Heal, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Perform, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
3) Can only use simple weapons and light armor
4) Attacks and Saves as a cleric
5) Alignment/Sex restrictions: No Evil and must be female
6) Fast Movement and Divine Grace
7) Confessor Power
1st Level
Charm Person 1x a day ½ Hit die or NPC
2nd Level
Charm Person 2x a day 1 hit die
3rd level
Charm Person 2x a day 1 hit die
4th level
Charm Person 3x a day 2 hit die
5th Level
Charm Person 3x a day 2 hit die
6th Level
Charm Person 3x a day 3 hit die
7th level
Charm Person 4x a day 3 hit die
8th level
Charm Person 4x a day 3 hit die
9th level
Dominate Person 1x a day Any
Charm Person 4x a day 4 hit die
10th level
Dominate Person 1x a day Any
Charm Person 4x a day 4 hit die
11th level
Dominate Person 2x a day Any
Charm Person 5x a day 4 hit die
12th level
Dominate Person 2x a day Any
Charm Person 5x a day 5 hit die
13th level
Dominate Person 2x a day Any
Charm Person 5x a day 5 hit die
14th level
Dominate Person 3x a day Any
Charm Person 6x a day 5 hit die
15th level
Dominate Person 3x a day Any
Charm Person 6x a day 6 hit die
16th level
Dominate Person 4x a day Any
Charm Person 6x a day 6 hit die
17th level
Dominate Person 4x a day Any
Charm Person 7x a day 6 hit die
18th level
Dominate Person 5x a day Any
Charm Person 7x a day 7 hit die
19th level
Dominate Person 5x a day Any
Charm Person 7x a day 7 hit die
20th level
Dominate Person 6x a day Any
Charm Person 8x a day 7 hit die
In trying to get a good progression for charm/dominate person, these two WotC articles maybe useful: Dead Levels I & Dead Levels II.
They basically analyze the feat/skill/class ability progression and offer advice on tweaking existing classes (or understanding their development). The first article focuses on core PHB classes, and the second (published a few months later) focuses on a survey of expansion-book classes. Might be helpful in building your Confessor as different from a "charm"-ing cleric, but not the ungodly dominator of the stories.
Also, just based on the TV show, it looks like Kahlen's ability was not only limited in how many people/how powerfully persuaded early-on, but also that it seemed to take more out of her. At first it was laughable (and unplayable), in that confessing a mook made her pass out for like 5-10 mins, but she clearly had some kind of psychic backlash or exhaustion after using it that diminished over time. Maybe you could balance out ability duration with her attack potential/bonus, or forcibly space it out over time (hours? days?). Hope that helps.
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Random thoughts about D&D-izing the Confessor;
The Confessors powers (on the show, at least) required her to touch a subject, seemed to take her a couple of long seconds (but also seemed to paralyze everyone around her while her hair blew back, her eyes went black and weather systems changed around her, so that's probably just dramatic license...), and fatigued her afterwards.
It also only was shown to affect humans.
But it was permanant and had no saving throw at all and, in at least one episode, we see that a Confessor can confess an entire village full of people, if she wants to.
In one respect, the powers are too limited (particularly in a more conventional D&D setting, where the vast majority of encounters will be with non-human adversaries). In another respect, the permanant and unlimited use nature of the power would be too much.
I'd want to limit the Confessor to a single confessed person at a time, at least at low level, and also cap the total HD of people she can have confessed at higher levels, similar to how Leadership is limited (so that a 10th level Confessor couldn't have like six 8th level flunlies...).
I would also like to see some opening up of the Confessor's range, perhaps with a series of feats, to have specialized Confessors who have learned to confess animals or magical beasts or whatever. Perhaps even the ability to confess multiple people could rely on Confession feats, which is why the vast majority of Confessors we've seen don't do the whole 'confess a whole village' trick. By spreading potential expansions in Confessor abilities out into Feats, one could also go in other directions, such as having a Confessor able to choose more confessees, less fatigue while confessing, ranged confession, confession of new beast types, or improved martial arts abilities (to represent Kahlen, in particular, being a complete butt-kicking two-dagger-cleave-machine, as she has spent her Confessor bonus feats in more monk-like flurry-of-daggers abilities).
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They should be lawful. She follows a strict code of what she can and can not do.
She does, but not all of them do. One of the confessors confesses an entire village to make them better servants.
It happens that Kahlen is Lawful Good in D&D terms, but for the class in general, I would say they have no alignment restrictions.
Random thoughts about D&D-izing the Confessor;
The Confessors powers (on the show, at least) required her to touch a subject, seemed to take her a couple of long seconds (but also seemed to paralyze everyone around her while her hair blew back, her eyes went black and weather systems changed around her, so that's probably just dramatic license...), and fatigued her afterwards.
It also only was shown to affect humans.
But it was permanant and had no saving throw at all and, in at least one episode, we see that a Confessor can confess an entire village full of people, if she wants to.
In one respect, the powers are too limited (particularly in a more conventional D&D setting, where the vast majority of encounters will be with non-human adversaries). In another respect, the permanant and unlimited use nature of the power would be too much.
I'd want to limit the Confessor to a single confessed person at a time, at least at low level, and also cap the total HD of people she can have confessed at higher levels, similar to how Leadership is limited (so that a 10th level Confessor couldn't have like six 8th level flunlies...).
Maybe let them get Leadership as a bonus feat at 6th level. Also, from what I have seen, a lot of the Confessors powers remind me of the Thrallmind in XPH.
Ive watched two more episodes I always have a funny feeling Xena or Hercules is going to pop out somewhere and save the day
I think I would immediately stop watching the show. If one of their sidekicks(Gabrielle or Iolaus) made a cameo I would be way more entertained and less likely to abandon the show.
The DVD is out and I enjoyed the show, but I'm having difficulty justifying the $44.95 price tag. It MAY have something to do with that Bestiary I'm waiting on, LOL.
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The books where really not that good. So you're not missing much.I figure it probably helps my enjoyment of the show that I haven't read the books.
Craig Horner without a shirt also helps my enjoyment of the show. Just throwing that out there.
That's a matter of oppinion Dragnmoon, the sales and popularity shows that alot of people adored them.
Infact, it's my absolute favorite book series ever, followed shortly by Wheel of Time and Shanara.
I personally did not like his style, seemed like every time a character went into a speech they would just go on and on, saying the same things in different ways, it was driving me crazy.
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I find the show watchable. The effects are top-notch (not like the painful Merlin 'special' effects), and the acting is decent. The bad-guys don't chew scenary painfully (see the first D&D movies for bad examples thereof) and the good-guys & gals don't do head-slappingly stupid things to advance the plot (see Heroes).
I do intend on reading the books eventually, but hearing the books described as being on par with the Shannara books is a bit of a wince-inducer, since they are, IMO, not the best examples of the craft. A bit like hearing, "Oh, you'll love Twilight, it's one of my favorite vampire movies, along with Red-Blooded American Girl and Dusk Till Dawn 2: Texas Blood Money!" :)
I do intend on reading the books eventually, but hearing the books described as being on par with the Shannara books is a bit of a wince-inducer, since they are, IMO, not the best examples of the craft. A bit like hearing, "Oh, you'll love Twilight, it's one of my favorite vampire movies, along with Red-Blooded American Girl and Dusk Till Dawn 2: Texas Blood Money!" :)
And that's the point. Just saying "I like X" is not enough of an endorsement, since different people have different tastes. But "I like X as much as Y and Z" is more helpful to those who are familiar with Y and Z, and have formed an opinion about them.
Speaking for myself, I got a few hundred pages into Wizard's First Rule and then gave up in disgust. But the TV show... whoa!
I no longer have much time to watch TV. I usually only watch fragments of episodes, for however long it takes me to do some job I can do in front of the TV, such as folding laundry. But when I see fragments of Legend of the Seeker, I am very much impressed! So many scenes are fascinating! And the pacing is breakneck!
And for me to like a TV show more than the books it's based on is crazy! I haven't liked a TV / movie version more than the book it's based on in decades!
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I do intend on reading the books eventually, but hearing the books described as being on par with the Shannara books is a bit of a wince-inducer, since they are, IMO, not the best examples of the craft.
Many time goodkind is compared to Robert Jordan, I don't think you Like Robeert Jordan Set, from what I remembered.
That Said, Robert Jordan I like, Goodkind I don't.
I'd be interested in seeing what somebody comes up with.
I've been toying with a Confessor class, which balances game play by levels versus what Kahlan can do in the show. So I had to create the 'confession' power and then scale it over time. Otherwise, she grabs the BBEG at 1st level (say he's 3rd), confesses him and viola! Instant 3rd level true lackey. Repeat constantly.
I've got it written up somewhere plus other level goodies.
Terry Goodkind is a terrible writer with a seriously whacked-out idea of morality. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone. Even suggesting his books are on the same level as the enormously flawed-but-still-interesting WHEEL OF TIME series is pretty silly, and suggesting he's anywhere near the level of Martin, Erikson or Bakker is just plain laughable.
It happens that Kahlen is Lawful Good in D&D terms
In the TV series, maybe. In the books, no. Richard and Kahlan routinely massacre, and butcher their way through people who disagree with them, even unarmed peaceniks or ambassadors from allied countries who aren't keen on the military reasons given for declaring war on another country.
This is in itself could still make for an interesting story, with morally corrupted 'heroes' who have been driven insane by the power they gained as goody two-shoe adventurers in the first book (although not that goody two-shoes, Richard still physically beat an eight-year-old girl into a bloody pulp and severed her tongue for saying some nasty things about his girlfriend), but Goodkind makes it clear that Dick 'n' Klan are righteous 'heroes' and everyone they kill deserves it for basically being lefty liberals.
So in an accurate rendition of the characters from the book, Richard, Kahlan and Zedd are definitely not Lawful Good. True Neutral tilting towards Lawful Neutral would be the absolute maximum I'd give them. A lot of their actions in the last few books are pure evil.
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It happens that Kahlen is Lawful Good in D&D termsIn the TV series, maybe. In the books, no. Richard and Kahlan routinely massacre, and butcher their way through people who disagree with them, even unarmed peaceniks or ambassadors from allied countries who aren't keen on the military reasons given for declaring war on another country.
Wow. That's definitely not in the TV series, which is what I was basing my alignment judgment on. Interesting.
Terry Goodkind is a terrible writer with a seriously whacked-out idea of morality. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone.
<snip>
Richard and Kahlan routinely massacre, and butcher their way through people who disagree with them, even unarmed peaceniks or ambassadors from allied countries who aren't keen on the military reasons given for declaring war on another country.
This is in itself could still make for an interesting story, with morally corrupted 'heroes' who have been driven insane by the power they gained as goody two-shoe adventurers in the first book (although not that goody two-shoes, Richard still physically beat an eight-year-old girl into a bloody pulp and severed her tongue for saying some nasty things about his girlfriend), but Goodkind makes it clear that Dick 'n' Klan are righteous 'heroes' and everyone they kill deserves it for basically being lefty liberals.
Boy, it just keeps happening to me. I stop reading a series, and then I hear that after the point where I stopped, it got WORSE. It happened with Drizzt, with Wheel of Time, and now with Sword of Truth.
Actually, WHEEL OF TIME got better. Eventually. Really eventually (depending on where you stopped, anyway).
The SWORD OF TRUTH books are absolutely whacked. The author actually had Bill and Hilary Clinton show up at some point as badly-disguised morally-corrupt politicians who were bludgeoned to death in a spectacularly unnecessary manner. I think the author was indulging his own fantasies rather gratuitously there.
Actually, WHEEL OF TIME got better. Eventually. Really eventually (depending on where you stopped, anyway).
I guess you've forgotten me. I spoke badly of Wheel of Time in this thread based on having read the first 1000 pages (roughly.)
And here I thought I had upset you in that thread! All that Wheel-of-Time-bashing made you start a whole new thread for "Wheel of Time" fans. Well, okay, I guess my WoT-bashing may have been overshadowed by that of Sanakht Inaros...
It's not because they dissagree with them, but because they are intent on forcing their beliefs on the rest of the people. Also, I don't remember Richard and Kahlan ever killing unarmed people who simply dissagreed with them, you'll have to refresh my memory on that one Werthead. I don't recall the specifics of the ambassador killing, but from what I recall there was alot more to it than just a dissagreement.
There was a bunch of unarmed peace protestors and pacifists who thought that Richard was wrong to wage war on the Imperial Orders, so linked hands and sung happy peacenik songs to try and stop Richard going through them to kill some Imperial soldiers. Rather than go round them or use some magical thingamagic to get through them, Richard hacks them to death with the Sword of Truth, declaring they lack 'moral clarity'. This bit goes on for a while with descriptions of blood arcing through the air, women screaming as the 'hero' of the series slices them in half etc. At great length.
The ambassador bit actually is just that. Richard is off somewhere (probably a prisoner of the Imperial Order, again), and the ambassador of one of D'Hara's allied kingdoms comes in and says he's not comfortable contributing troops to a dubious military enterprise with no clear-cut ends. He doesn't actually say he's going to try and stop the expedition or anything, just that his kingdom is not coming along for the ride. Zedd and Kahalan kill him there and then, declaring "If you're not with us, you're against us." I think it was supposed to be an Iraq War allegory, delivered with Goodkind's typical subtlety.
FIRST OFF!!! Richard did what he did not because she was saying bad things about Rachel, but because that little monster tortured and beat and de-humanized Rachel. The poor little girl was being treated worse than a dog, and that kind of behavior is the deffinition of evil.
It was done by an eight-year-old girl. She didn't even do it, she just gave the orders for it to be done. She was not beyond rehabilitation, just as say modern-day Somali child soldiers are not beyond rehabilitation. Richard just beat her up for the sheer hell of it. To be honest, if it had been effectively shown that she was evil to the core and could not redeemed, then Richard killing her there and then would actually have made sense. Just torturing her through physical violence and then letting her live was a needless act of barbarity that reduced Richard to the level of the enemy.
Secondly, Richard doesn't even WANT to be a hero, he's only there doing what he has to in order to keep people safe. If there were any other way Richard would be back home in Westland tending to his forests and living peacefully. His place as Seeker and later Ruler were by virtue of his herritage and nature. He's the only man capable of the job.
This isn't the case at all. Goodkind is a severely right-leaning Objectivist. One of his core beliefs is that people need to stand up for themselves. He used the example once that if you see someone drowning you should not help them, because they have gotten into that situation by themselves (either by being silly enough not to learn how to swim or putting themselves in a dangerous situation). When asked how that squares with Richard and Kahlan being the leaders of the country and thus helping people by definition, he stated that their job wasn't necessarily to rule but to stand as symbols to inspire people to live their lives the best way possible. He actually put this into practice - astonishingly badly - in the books by having a rebellion not 'led' by Richard, but inspired by him building a statue (of himself looking badass, with no training, in about a week, but I've covered that already) and letting it inspire the people to do stuff themselves. For example, no health care in Rahl-land. People have to make do themselves.
Or at least something like that. Goodkind contradicts himself about five times per interview, making it hard to understand WTF he is going on about.
Richard and Kahlan, however, are both neutral good with different inclinations, striving to do what's good and right, to protect human life and freedom.
In the penultimate book in the series, Richard despatches his armies into the evil empire with orders to destroy the cities' defences, burn their granaries, burn the surrounding fields and salt the earth*. The civilian population is to be driven out into the countryside. Those who renounce the Imperial Order are allowed to go free (erm, into the devastated, blasted countryside with no food for miles around). Those who don't are to be massacred and their ears cut off and delivered to Richard.
(* What the empire's armies are doing at this point is unclear. Standing around chatting about the weather, presumably, or laying waste to the good guys' kingdom at the same time. Goodkind does not have a very good grasp of military theory or strategy or logic.)
In other words, in the Cold War Goodkind would have advocated the US Army going into the Soviet Union, burning out the Ukraine, destroying all food stories in the whole country, driving the downtrodden civilians out into the countryside and then machine gunning anyone who didn't renounce the USSR there and then.
That's got nothing to do with human life and freedom. The writer is an extreme right-wing nutter who uses his books to get across his political and philosophical viewpoint again and again and sets up the most ridiculous strawman situations to show why he is 'right', and gets genuinely angry ('really' angry) when anyone calls him on his BS.
A good recent example is that he spent months telling people about his move into realistic, 'proper' literature but it turned out that his 'new' book was another cheesy fantasy novel that was a retelling of his first book but set in, erm, Nebraska rather than Generic Fantasyland. Quite a few people, including those who'd hitherto defended him to the hilt, though this was shockingly lame (you may need to turn on the subtitles), so he removed his webmasters and clamped down even harder on anyone on his official forums who tried to voice any kind of dissent with the book or even say it was in the fantasy genre. This is the same guy, btw, who once said Canada was a fascist state and made mocking fun of Robert Jordan whilst he was dying from his heart disease. Classy.
Did anyone else catch the season 2 opener?
Wow, opinions run amok.
I'd say that anyone who hasn't read it should give the first book a try and judge it on its own without taking someone else's opinions as fact.
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Wow, opinions run amok.
I'd say that anyone who hasn't read it should give the first book a try and judge it on its own without taking someone else's opinions as fact.
Yes the first book by itself is good,
After the first book the whole feeling of the series changes dramatically, for me not in a good way, though it was just entertaining enough to continue.