For those not subscribing, what changes would entice you to subscribe? Higher quality of dragon magazine? A reduction in price? Having print versions available? More payment options?
- Print.
- Price isn't an issue at all (though I would happily pay more for print)- Back to the "quality" during Paizo's tenure (e.g. an actual SoW outline, along with detailed support articles in Dragon; and simply: "better adventures")
- If I'm stuck with electronic, then the maps need to be high quality, scaleable (if that's the right term), and include tagged and untagged versions. For all maps.
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To try and turn this discussion from the somewhat silly edition war it seems to be degenerating into... let's get some actually thoughtful discussion going!
For those not subscribing, what changes would entice you to subscribe? Higher quality of dragon magazine? A reduction in price? Having print versions available? More payment options? (I know they are already working at adding Paypal as an option.)
For me, pure WIN for DRAGON magazine would be that it would be combined with DUNGEON into one monthly periodical, and that it is sold in the exact same format and method as PATHFINDER, with a PDF version for e-subscribers as well.
I've always felt that, in gaming, it's all about OPTIONS. Players want options. It's evident in the discussions on the WotC boards concerning DDI subscription formats, and I really am surprised at how heavy-handed WotC has been regarding their package deals. I love WotC, play a ton of their games, and sometimes I just sit back and wonder if these folks are living in the same space-time continuum as the rest of us.
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The books a million near me has had 40 since day one, they have sold 3.They have know sold out of all 3.5 stuff and was ordering more from what they had in wherhouse I was told. each area is diff I guess.
It really is. Gaming is very much area-centric, and reflects largely the "majority voice" of the player base in the area. This is no different from any nationally available product - sales of one item might be high in one community and not so in another. Nothing new about this. A prime example of how this works is examining the regionals for any CCG. You'll notice certain theme decks are prevalent in one area and not so in another. Just the way it works.
In my area, our one FLGS is pro-4E, and I agree that 4E brings a lot to the table. However, Pathfinder also sells well, so perhaps we're not so divided between games here but more of a moderate mindset.
I keep looking at John's copy of the original Forgotten Realms boxed set on the shelf and keep saying I need to buy it ...
Still, the deciding factor for me was the Compendium. Its has the same kind of functionality to me that the Hypertext D20 site has for me in my 3.5 games...
Ditto for me. I'm running 2 1/2 4e campaigns (the 1/2 is just a weekly skirmish to test drive high level monsters and characters). I'm subscribing to DDI instead of purchasing Adventurer's Vault, Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, and a dozen more hardcover supplements.
I used to love Dungeon and tolerate Dragon while they were in print. Now I like Dragon and dislike Dungeon. I want to read some of the adventures, but 50 pages is a big time investment for screen reading (as opposed to print reading, which I can do sitting on an exercise bike, riding in a car, or waiting for Warhammer Online to load up).
The bonus tools are interesting, but I'm used to doing most of that math by hand anyway.
For those not subscribing, what changes would entice you to subscribe? Higher quality of dragon magazine? A reduction in price? Having print versions available? More payment options?
I'm not buying it, yet, because I'm not playing 4e.
I'm kinda surprised that I'm not, because a few of my friends were interested in me running a 4e game. But when it came time to kick off a new campaign, we were all too interested in the Paizo APs.
So right now I'm running CotCT, but maybe next year?
I'll pay for the resources when I have a need for them. It's like others have said... it's not about the price. It's about my needs as a gamer.
And I really miss the print mags.
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I consider myself a hardcore D&D gamer. That said, I haven't been on WotC's site in months and I had to read several posts before I remembered what "DDI" is. I have no intention of subscribing; my limited budget is already picking up Pathfinder print products, which are handier around the table and higher quality (imo) overall.
I guess I'll have to remind myself to change that line to 'hardcore world's most popular role-playing game' gamer. Or something shorter.
Point.Counterpoint:
My FLGS cannot keep enough 4e in stock. He burns through them every week.
It must be a regional thing.
My local shop has gone from displaying a 6-ft section of 4ed material on release, to a 4-foot section after 2 months. Now, it is (all of it) sitting on a 2 foot endcap.
The owner has called it a "disaster" due to the feeling of customer ill-will towards WOTC in deciding to split their customer base.
*shrug*
The books a million near me has had 40 since day one, they have sold 3.They have know sold out of all 3.5 stuff and was ordering more from what they had in wherhouse I was told. each area is diff I guess.I agree. After today, there is no real reason to even get on WotC's site. Bye. Bye. WotC.
Ditto for me.
Ditto for my six players.
Ditto for another five players at our local FLGS who are proudly playing Pathfinder Roleplaying Game - Beta Playtest in the store amidst the dusty shelves of 4e paraphernalia.
Point.
Counterpoint:
My FLGS cannot keep enough 4e in stock. He burns through them every week.
Hard to say ... all I'll add on this point is that people who like 4e all seem to live in areas where (according to them) 4e is selling quicker than cold beer on a hot day ... while people who don't like 4e all seem to live in areas where you couldn't sell 4e books if they came with a free date with Natlaie Portman (with ALL the works). ;-)
People tend to see things as they want them to be, rather than how they necessarily are would be my guess. I'm as guilty of that as anyway too.
I'm not subscribing.
As to what would make me subscribe ... well quite a lot. Mainly, and primarily, there would need to be a diametric shift in WotC's strangely doctrinal and imo whacked out anti-fluff emphasis to all things D&D.
If the fluff was still good and detailed, and properly flavourfull, then despite not being a 4e player I might cough up the relatively cheap price. However by de-emphasising the fluff side of things (a trait that is certainly very evident in most of the free Dragon articles and Dungeon adventures I've skimmed over) they've not only put off people like me who actually play the game at least as much for imaginative stories, settings, characters, and scenarios, as for combats and crunch, but have also reduced the chances non-4e players might buy the pdfs just to mine fluff ideas.
Madness imo, but hey it's not my problem. :-)
I keep looking at John's copy of the original Forgotten Realms boxed set on the shelf and keep saying I need to buy it ...
I still have the one I bought when it was first released (as well as both the 2nd Ed boxed set and the 2nd Ed Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover). It's only useful if you want to run a 1st Ed AD&D FR campaign before the Time of Troubles and lack another setting overview. Almost all of the information can be found in updated format or covered in more detail in later products.
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For those not subscribing, what changes would entice you to subscribe? Higher quality of dragon magazine? A reduction in price? Having print versions available? More payment options? (I know they are already working at adding Paypal as an option.)
There really isn't anything they will change that could get me to subscribe. Discounting the fact that I'm not playing 4e (I'm one of those who thinks it just doesn't have the D&D feel I like), I want my magazines in print form. I have used resources on the net and on my computer, but it's a lot more awkward for me compared to using hard copy forms. Really, combining a hard copy version with a PDF version as Paizo has been doing is ideal, best of both worlds really.
I also won't subscribe to an online character generator or campaign manager. Anything like that, I want offline, on my computer, and it has to be pretty much completely adjustable for my house rules. I can't take the risk of being unable to access my material because WotC has their website down. Given that they aren't the most technically adept company on the planet, I think that's a reasonable concern.
Really, even if the DDI was geared to 3.5 (or if I played 4e), I still wouldn't be able to subscribe at this point. I don't think it's very well implemented, and WotC has never impressed me with their ability to run their website. I think they'd be better off dumping the whole plan and going back to licensing their products out to other companies. Everything they want to do could be accomplished better out of house by companies with superior track records in their fields. I think WotC is trying to do too much that they just don't have the ability to do well, and the product will suffer for some time for it. Just my opinion, but I don't see them persuading me to subscribe anytime soon.