It is highly likely that in the future I will run this AP. I want to ask for some tips on how to run it to make it compelling and interesting for those involved. I have read a lot about the campaign so far on the message boards here and have fleshed out how I might run the campaign differently: -
- Before the AP proper starts, I'll run the PC's through the "Wreck Ashore" Wizards adventure. The players will start on a ship that gets wrecked due to the false lighthouse. Amongst the survivors of the wreck will be Rowyn Kellani, who will actively attempt to befriend the PC's. The pirates wrecking the ships will be members of a Sasserine Thieves' guild called the Black Harpies. The PC's will gain acclaim for defeating the Pirates, and will also gain the friendship of Rowyn Kellani. She however will gain enough evidence to have the Black Harpies rounded up and dealt with by the watch, eliminating a rival.
- Rowyn will offer Lavinia condolences and chat to the party when they visit Castle Teraknian (thanks to the donor of that idea)
- If the party ask her about Vanthus, then she will point them in the direction of the rogue that Vanthus stabs in the back.
- After the Parrot Island escapade, the party will be ambushed by Lotus Dragons. Rowyn Kellani will 'happen' to be passing and will aid the PC's to kill their attackers (thanks to the person on this forum who gave me this idea). She will then join them for drinks and play the part of a concerned friend trying to warn the PC's of the perils of tackling the Lotus Dragons. Whether or not she persuades them to leave the guild alone, she will tell them about the guild hall of a bunch of thieves called the Emerald Claw in the Azure District, telling them that they are either a safer target than the Lotus Dragons, or linked to them in some way. The PC's should destroy the Emerald Claws (the guild house might be 'borrowed' from the food factory at the start of the curse of the crimson throne), and the remainder will flee on their ship, the 'Rage', which already turns up in the Sargasso.
- All of this should help make the PC's have a really tough decision between Rowyn and Lavinia, and I'll have to make Lavinia very likeable to help balance the choice.
- In SWW, the PC's should hopefully make friends with one of the otherwise nameless colonists. Rowyn will maroon this colonist on a shore break, and disguise herself as that person, but the colonist will make it back to the ship with the help of locals by the time the party reaches the ruins of Tamoachan.
- To help mitigate any anger about the wreck at the end of SWW, Avner will offer to 'help' make a good dinner by fishing or hunting. He'll shoot an albatross and cook it for dinner. Additionally, if the players do well and manage to pass the checks or cast the spells that keep the Sea Wyvern afloat, I'll reward them by letting them beach the damaged ship and saving all of the NPC's aboard, as well as all of the loot.
Are these ideas good? Does it make the players too likely to join Rowyn? How should I handle a change of heart by her and pity for her by the players? Do the measures I have indicated for mitigating annoyance at the end of SWW have any chance of working? And how far should I deviate from the path and add new things and take out superfluous things?
In fact... what would you have done differently if you ran the STAP again?
As I read this, your players will probably choose for Rowyn. This need not be a problem, however. If you are lucky they will try to please both Rowyn and Lavinia.
** spoiler omitted **
What is there to hint at that connection besides a small statuette of a succubus? That doesn't indicate that she's a worshipper just as a statuette of Buddha in my house indicates I'm a Buddhist.
- After the Parrot Island escapade, the party will be ambushed by Lotus Dragons. Rowyn Kellani will 'happen' to be passing and will aid the PC's to kill their attackers (thanks to the person on this forum who gave me this idea).
You're welcome! :)
It gladdens my heart to see someone else fleshing out Rowyn into a solid recurring character for STAP.
I love your ideas for using the PCs to wipe out other rival thieves for Rowyn, while still working for Lavinia. If you do intend to give the PCs a chance to help reform Rowyn later, you've already inserted some great roleplaying opportunities for later in the campaign.
My advice would be to make sure she has a bond of some kind with one of the PCs, in order to make it personal for everyone involved. Showing Lavinia as a bit naive, but very quick to learn and adapt, should give the PCs more respect for her as an employer and friend - she should not be a 'damsel in distress' anymore once the voyage gets underway.
I hope it works out for you. Good Luck!
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
What is there to hint at that connection besides a small statuette of a succubus? That doesn't indicate that she's a worshipper just as a statuette of Buddha in my house indicates I'm a Buddhist.
Of course not, but she might be interested. I am just saying you could use it as a link if you wish.
Of course not, but she might be interested. I am just saying you could use it as a link if you wish.
It might well be a link I exploit, depending on how the PC's deal with her escapades in SWW. If they release her but don't try to reform her, that may be a path I go down, but if they kill her, then perhaps she could come back as a revenge fuelled undead or drowned undead, then perhaps reappear even later as a demon in service to the little miss M.
It might well be a link I exploit, depending on how the PC's deal with her escapades in SWW. If they release her but don't try to reform her, that may be a path I go down, but if they kill her, then perhaps she could come back as a revenge fuelled undead or drowned undead, then perhaps reappear even later as a demon in service to the little miss M.
Of course not, but she might be interested. I am just saying you could use it as a link if you wish.
Honestly I wish I had thought and done all of that before hand, because as it is my pcs are trying to work for both sides and it would have been more impactful on them. As for Rowyns stunts on the ship, she is being replaced by Diamondback since she got away (and since the fight was so fast she's mysteriously taking on Rowyn's stats and abilities :P) But I have made some changes in my campaign:
Avner is actually the cause of the groups hardships and the attacks during the Wormfall festival (which since I haven't ran AoW is basically Sesserines Independance Day). He is the leader of the Fen Sharks a rival gang of theieves opposed to the dragons, and he started it after finding out Rowyn's involvement. He was spurned by her and is obsessed with her so he plots against her. Diamondback to him is as Brissa Santos was to Vanthus. He offers to help fund the expedition so as to keep a closer eye on Rowyn's "men" and also he's starting to enjoy the thief-king setup he's given himself. He is thinking of taking over Farshore when they get there, and hopes Diamondback can eliminate Lavinia and Rowyn's enforcers. When he is found out, and possibly during the raid or somesuch, he will retreat and leave his two men to cover his retreat into the jungle. That way I can use the randomly returning Avner on a dino setup I saw mentioned and want to use so badly! But that's all my little side stuff I want to happen.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard
I think that summons up your approach to DMing from what I can see.
One thing I still need advice with though. Beyond seeming a little naive, how can I make the PC's genuinely care for Lavinia?
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first off: good luck, have fun, and hang on for a wild ride!
as far as getting them to like lavinia, what's not to like?
she's the girl next door, loaded (well, kinda), and has a dastardly brother who vexes the pc's at every opportunity. play up the "im a good girl who needs your help" and you're set. if your group can handle it, have her become enamored with the bard/rogue/cleric/sorc (whoever is the talker or has high cha) and get the inter-class-marriage thing going.
as far as rowyn/malcanthet...the seeds are there, if you want to use them. the perfume, personality, cruelty, and books are a good hint towards her character, and she WOULD fit well as the "radiant sister" scarlet the pc's have to hunt down later.
keeping them interested/focused, that's a little harder. i did it by letting them generate their own focus-groups (my rogue started a Courier's Guild and delivered mail/drugs/people around the world, the ranger/pyrokineticist had his cohort make huge ships and forts everywhere).
don't try to force them in any particular path, just lay out the adventure goals and let them attack them in the manner they want. just use the adventure parts as they're needed, and the party need never know the differnce.
things i would have done differently:
Drop the stupid puzzle room in the temple of demogorgon. it's pure gygaxian unfun, just wasting time at the table. let them stew a bit, and when they come up with a plan that sounds good, let it work and move on.
really play up the horror-movie-ness of the Sargasso encounters. doom-music, low-ambient-lighting, random animal noises/screams, the whole nine yards.
run the final fight during Tides of Dread as 2 big encounters...all the pirate/yuan-ti/construct encounters at the same time, perhaps with a few round delay between them, then one big fight against vanthus + the vrocks.
im sure there's more stuff, but it escapes me atm.
-t
My Lavinia is sort of naïve, but aware of the fact that she is lacking needed experience. So my PC's are sort of mothering her, having serious conversations with her about her innocence and trying to make her a bit tougher. They are also giving her fencing lessons. I am letting their influence slowly rub off on Lavinia, so that it looks like the PC's are making her tougher. So far this works very well to keep them interested in Lavinia.
As for the details in Rowyn's room: this adventure path has a lot of similar details, e.g. in items in rooms etc. These items are often small clues to spark your imagination. It made the campaign a pleasant read, trying to spot them all.
I also noticed that a lot of treasure items are green. I have not yet been able to figure out the meaning of that. Perhaps it is just a coïncidence.
Speaking of Captain Kigante, I've been thinking that if the PC's between them don't look too seaworthy, then perhaps he could have survived the savage attack and be nursing his wounds in his locked, barred chamber, unwilling to stay in Kraken's Cove ''cos of the foul taint Yarr!' but seeking future employment. This might mean I have to alter his backstory a bit so he was perhaps never a part of the crimson fleet.
Oh, and having seen the length, gruesomeness, and sad repetitiveness of the obituaries thread, I think that I should adapt Monte Cook's 'Hero Points' system so as to prevent unnecessary death on the part of the PC's, as that can be a real killer.
On an off-topic but related note though, I'm still proud that I never had to roll up a new character throughout the entire STAP. My dwarven barbarian/fighter/berserk/frenzied berserker/bear warrior did a very good job to survive and prosper as he did, despite being the party's main combatant and not even owning a magic weapon until he found a (mercifully adapted) flametongue in the tides of dread.
Oh, and having seen the length, gruesomeness, and sad repetitiveness of the obituaries thread, I think that I should adapt Monte Cook's 'Hero Points' system so as to prevent unnecessary death on the part of the PC's, as that can be a real killer.
On an off-topic but related note though, I'm still proud that I never had to roll up a new character throughout the entire STAP. My dwarven barbarian/fighter/berserk/frenzied berserker/bear warrior did a very good job to survive and prosper as he did, despite being the party's main combatant and not even owning a magic weapon until he found a (mercifully adapted) flametongue in the tides of dread.
If you think the STAP was character-deadly, check out the AoW Obits thread ... that AP had far more prematurely-concluded campaigns than did the Savage Tide from what I could tell.
If you think the STAP was character-deadly, check out the AoW Obits thread ... that AP had far more prematurely-concluded campaigns than did the Savage Tide from what I could tell.Oh, and having seen the length, gruesomeness, and sad repetitiveness of the obituaries thread, I think that I should adapt Monte Cook's 'Hero Points' system so as to prevent unnecessary death on the part of the PC's, as that can be a real killer.
On an off-topic but related note though, I'm still proud that I never had to roll up a new character throughout the entire STAP. My dwarven barbarian/fighter/berserk/frenzied berserker/bear warrior did a very good job to survive and prosper as he did, despite being the party's main combatant and not even owning a magic weapon until he found a (mercifully adapted) flametongue in the tides of dread.
Yeah, but it was still tough (IC) and funny (OOC), to have been the only one of the band of adventurers that originally met Lavinia who still lived. I remember a short-lived party rogue after we reached Farshore at the start of ToD that said that he should be the party leader because of his skill at charisma based skills. Neither I nor Lavinia took him seriously.
Just been reading Bullywug's Gambit. It doesn't state in the room that Brissa Santos is in that she attacks the PC's after her short speech... What if the PC's try and help her? Can a savage creature be returned to normal? And what alignment and personality would Brissa have? How would she react to Vanthus' betrayal?
Just been reading Bullywug's Gambit. It doesn't state in the room that Brissa Santos is in that she attacks the PC's after her short speech... What if the PC's try and help her? Can a savage creature be returned to normal? And what alignment and personality would Brissa have? How would she react to Vanthus' betrayal?
That is a good qustion. From what I read, they never mention a cure, but being that it seems like a disease I would assume remove disease and break enchantment should do it. That or the old undead fix, kill them and rez them. Only ways short of a wish or miracle I can think of.
Just been reading Bullywug's Gambit. It doesn't state in the room that Brissa Santos is in that she attacks the PC's after her short speech... What if the PC's try and help her? Can a savage creature be returned to normal? And what alignment and personality would Brissa have? How would she react to Vanthus' betrayal?That is a good qustion. From what I read, they never mention a cure, but being that it seems like a disease I would assume remove disease and break enchantment should do it. That or the old undead fix, kill them and rez them. Only ways short of a wish or miracle I can think of.
I'd probably rule that she hasn't completely lost her marbles and a remove curse/disease would do the trick. And perhaps if they don't have that at the time and just do as she says - feed her - then maybe they could get a tame savage npc following them around loyally... maybe.
Okay, so here is how I am going to adapt the AP so far. This is just stuff to act as a precursor to TINH where the party will confront more than just the Lotus Dragons.
Thieves at War:
The situation in Sasserine is a lot more complex than the Players’ Guide makes out, showing that it is more of a tourist guide. However, anybody from Sasserine who even goes to the pub once a week should be able to pick up what is happening in the City.
After the fall of the Sea Princes, several powerful figures rose within the city’s underworld and have been running their own Thieves’ Guilds. While the names of these guilds should be known to the PC’s, the names of their leaders should not be. Knowledge (Local) checks reveal the following facts: -
• Lotus Dragons: DC 15: The Lotus Dragons are a thieves’ guild in Sasserine known for organised acts of burglary. DC 20: Wild animal smuggling too. They are ruled by a mysterious figure known only as Lady Lotus. DC: 25 The Lotus Dragons must be being bank rolled by a rich patron, otherwise they wouldn’t be winning the Guild War.
• Black Harpies: DC 15: The Black Harpies are Sasserine’s ‘mob’. They engage in protection rackets, murder and blackmail. DC 20: It is rumoured that some recent acts of Piracy were linked to this guild. DC 25: If the Black Harpies are engaging in piracy, then they must be backed by a rich patron to afford the ships. They’re leader is known as the watcher.
• Emerald Claws: DC 15: The Emerald Claws are a group of petty thieves operating in the Azure District. DC 20: The claws were recently dealt a blow when a member talked to the watch. They’re guildhall was raided (an import/export warehouse). DC 25: They were not hit too hard by this though, indicating that they must have another guildhouse somewhere.
• Dread Eels: DC 15: The Dread Eels are a small band of extortionists and conmen working the waterfront of the Azure District. DC 20: They are also believed to smuggle animals and to run a protection racket. DC 25: It is rumoured that many of Keltar Islaran’s dock workers have links to the Dread Eels.
• Yelloweyes: DC 10: The city watch recently swooped down and arrested most of this guild after a failed assassination attempt on a member of the Dawn Council. They now rot in prison for their burglaries and smuggling. DC 15: The Dawn Council unsuccessfully tried to hush up the fact that the guildmaster was none other than Roth Taskerhill, youngest son of Dawn Councilmember Kalmadar Taskerhill. DC: 20 Roth fled the city with his few surviving lieutenants, and he hasn’t been seen since.
Facts the PC’s won’t know about these Guilds
The Lotus Dragons are led by Rowyn Kellani, who used her considerable trust fund from her mother to set up the guild. She has cannily organised and run the guild so it now makes a hefty profit.
The Black Harpies are run by Karne Deskoth, a noble from the Shadowshore district with friends and family in the Crimson Fleet. In a recent move by the Lotus Dragons, Erqua Ashilim and seven other Black Harpies were framed for a massive burglary, and they were forced to leave town. This has weakened Deskoth, but he has put his exiled employees in charge of a scheme to set up a false lighthouse and loot the resulting shipwrecks.
Rowyn Kellani managed to persuade an Emerald Claw to talk to the watch, but he knew less than she thought and so only a handful of thieves were arrested and an unprofitable business confiscated. The guildmaster (Herrin Crawford) continues to operate his guild out of a slurry factory in the Shadowshore. His ship, the Rage, is docked outside.
The Dread Eels were formerly in alliance with the Yelloweyes, but have now begun business with the Lotus Dragons (Kellani doesn’t trust them though). Their leader is a man named Sollar Veck, and having commandeered the ship of an apparently helpless young noblewoman, he is using this ship as his offshore base of operations. Neither the Yelloweyes nor the Lotus Dragons like Veck as he managed to effectively monopolise the wild animal black market, making both guilds have to go through him.
The Yelloweyes were run on the same grounds as the Lotus Dragons and with a similarly wealthy leader. Canny as she is, Rowyn Kellani narrowed the possible backers down to a mere half a dozen men, and dated each of them, using her charm and magical power to find out which one was backing the Yelloweyes. She tricked the naïve Roth Taskerhill into attempting to murder Keltar Islan. Though the attempt failed, it was still partially successful in that the watch now had to act as a member of the council was nearly killed. The notoriously zealous Cudgel District watch swooped in and arrested Roskerhill and most of his guild. A few managed to go into hiding. Roskerhill himself was bailed by his father and he fled the city to Seawell with his accomplices, hoping to lose his pursuers during Demonsend, and in this way his guilt has been proven to the courts. Rowyn Kellani pursued Roskerhill to Seawell and assassinated him and his few remaining followers.
Is it a little too repetetive? Should I expand on this? Is there anything I should change but haven't, or have changed but shouldn't?
I like it, it is much more detailed than my "Hmmm they work for Rowyn, now who's gonna be a pain in their keyster's, oh Avner!" plot. I think it will make the theives guild stuff seem more alive, as it talks about the wars between the guilds but never really expands on it outside the actual Lotus Dragons. So your changes are really good IMO and will help tie in some later stuff.
I think these ideas are great. I have added some details as well to the guilds and it worked like a train. You get to use Sasserine a bit longer and players get to know it better. Moreover you can introduce all kinds of plot lines and your players get to investigate (when they like that). You can also emphasize the fact that the dawn council is rather lax because there is so much criminal activity going on, and add extra encounters in the streets, ecpecially at night.
Sounds like an interesting campaign. Good luck with it.
In SoS, I'm planning on having an additional NPC or two that the PC's care about abducted by Vanthus. He will take each NPC on a different ship to Divided's Ire, and the PC's will have a choice of which NPC to rescue. But that's by-the-by.
When the party eventually does rescue Lavinia, she could potentially be a valuable cohort or helper. I understand that my players wouldn't want a weak, potential liability tagging along, so how could I rebuild her as a viable cohort/ally? Remember, she still needs to be Good and ECL 15. Having rolled new stats for her with my lucky stat dice, she has stats 14 18 16 14 14 16. How should I build her?
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I'd probably rule that she hasn't completely lost her marbles and a remove curse/disease would do the trick. And perhaps if they don't have that at the time and just do as she says - feed her - then maybe they could get a tame savage npc following them around loyally... maybe.
It's your campaign of course, but I would recommend against this. I think of the Savage Fever as being a lot like what afflicts the people in the movie "I Am Legend" if you've seen that. Their minds are totally shot, their humanity all but gone. There's no "loyalty" in them.
To me, if you make it such that Savage Fever is not as scary, you take away a big motivation for the PCs to fight so hard against it.
If they can cure her and "turn her back" then that's one thing, and that's great. But just feeding a savage creature once and expecting them to be an ally after that? I don't see it.
I think of the Savage Fever as being a lot like what afflicts the people in the movie "I Am Legend" if you've seen that. Their minds are totally shot, their humanity all but gone. There's no "loyalty" in them.
Wait, didn't one of the vampires in that deliberately risk himself to save his daughter/girlfriend?
And I was thinking of Brissa as more of a half-transformed savage creature than a fully transformed one. Her first thought when she sees another person isn't of eating that person, but that the other person returned to her out of kindness.
I think of the Savage Fever as being a lot like what afflicts the people in the movie "I Am Legend" if you've seen that. Their minds are totally shot, their humanity all but gone. There's no "loyalty" in them.
Wait, didn't one of the vampires in that deliberately risk himself to save his daughter/girlfriend?
And I was thinking of Brissa as more of a half-transformed savage creature than a fully transformed one. Her first thought when she sees another person isn't of eating that person, but that the other person returned to her out of kindness.
In all fairness there is the alternate ending where they just want the girl and leave him alive, and in the book there was an entire subset that were just like normal people but light sensitive.... but that's neither here nor there. The big thing is that Savage Fever seems to act like the classic zombie/vampire movie monsters in that even if there is some of their personality left they are viscious evil creatures. In that effect I would definately go with the break enchantment/remove curse etc route as far as fixing her. She might be somewhat "tameable" if they keep her fed but I really think she would be too dangerous regardless. This also makes the pcs aware of the scariness of themselves getting infected. If they can just be coerced with food and friendship, getting the disease isn't very scary at all, and they get DR and extra abilities to boot. So you really want this to be a bad thing, not to mention the threat of it spreading back to town and infecting thousands. Not that I'd EVER do that! :P
If you're thinking of allowing the PCs to save and reform Brissa it seems to me that the DM who ran the campaign detailed in Belessa's Journal (Savage Tide Campaign) do just that. The title character even adopts and turns Brissa Santos into a cohort (much like my character did with Churtle). Give it a read and see if that gives you any ideas.
That campaign journal is... chilling. It reads as a horror story as much as a journal. Human sacrifice? Near drowning in a temple of Umberlee? If I didn't know better, I would say that it was a CoC journal.