My PC's have been going through the Rise of the Runelords AP with the PRPG rules and they've been loving it. They love the stories, the love the RP, they love the plot but one thing that has irked them to no end is that most of the magic items they have are things they've made. They haven't found any solid good Wondrous Items, they now hate war razors with a passion and if there is one thing they've hated with any adventure in general is that it seems if ever there's a low level module the PC's are almost guaranteed to get enough cloaks of resistance +1 to provide blankets to everyone in a town of Sandpoints size.
Now of course nothing can be done right now but I've always considered magic items to be a good crunchy part of the fun and my players do as well. Seems the bad guys get plenty of nifty toys but they're either horribly evil items or something considered useless by and large (i.e. war razors, pole arms, etc). I basically got tired of it and decided that the PC's could get one of the masks redeemed per the Book of Exalted Deeds and us it that way sans the icky evilness. Now granted, it's not nearly as bad as Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave where a PC was screwed if they weren't a wielder of a Spiked Chain but it is annoying for a GM to list off what they get as they wait with bated breath and then have them groan and roll their eyes and talk about how they might sell such and such item to provide gold for making such and such item instead.
So I guess our request would be if it would be at all possible to take magic item dispersement into more consideration with future AP's? As a GM I am more than capable of slipping things into the game on my own but it would be nice to have a little help. I'd never consider my group a montey haul group under any circumstance but the magic item dispersement has been a touch bland. I'm presently sifting through Hook Mountain Massacre to see if I can't slip a few handy wondrous items into the mix or if I'll even need to.
Please don't think this a major complaint. I and my players love your products so at this point we're just being nit picky. I'm not sure what formulae you're using as far as how many magic items you're placing in the game, of what power and whether you're taking just monetary value into effect (i.e. including things like the Skinsaw Masks) or taking into account how useful certain items are (i.e. few players ever wield pole arms therefor this would likely be sold 7 times out of 10 and fewer still are likely to use the skin saw masks let alone find a buyer for them and thus... etc etc) but it's still a request my players and I would like to make. Whether you listen to us or not :-P is another matter.
Thanks.
I have ran several AP's and even several home brewed campaigns. I have found players are unhappy with the magic items found about 90% of the time. Even when I tried to customize the items given to match what I thought the players would like. They still sold 99% of all items found and either crafted their own or purchased their own stuff.
I know many DMs have a problem with magic item shops, but it really is the easiest way to let players simply sell and buy what they want. I mean an item your group hates maybe the exact item my group loves. So it would be really hard for paizo to put in the 'correct' magic item. At least thats what I have found anyways.
later
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RotRL also suffers from
One thing I do is let my players sell evil magic items to good churches to be destroyed. Otherwise they're left destroying treasures like the skinsaw masks. It might be nice to mention this behaviour in the description of a temple or two.
Director of Narrative
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I know many DMs have a problem with magic item shops, but it really is the easiest way to let players simply sell and buy what they want.Assuming your players can somewhat suspend disbelief, why not have each of them give you a list of 5-6 items they'd like to see for their characters? As the encounters permit, work an item or two from each list into the loot.
Excellent suggestion. We do this very thing at my table.
This is one point where I thank that Pathfinder can actually learn from 4th Edition... in this case the "Wish List" idea. In 4E, the DMG recommends getting a "magic item wish list" from each player and putting those items, or items like them, into the game.
Of course, some of us didn't need to wait until the 4th Edition DMG came out to think of this idea. I'm jusy sayin'.
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Excellent suggestion. We do this very thing at my table.Assuming your players can somewhat suspend disbelief, why not have each of them give you a list of 5-6 items they'd like to see for their characters? As the encounters permit, work an item or two from each list into the loot.
Same here...
And the most fun part is that, as a DM, I can use these adorable items against the player's characters first...:D
RotRL also suffers from ** spoiler omitted **
Wow, this is a very good suggestion. I will be using that.
One of the PCs in my current RotRL campaign has the feat Ancestral Relic from Book of Exalted deeds. It allows him to sacrifice treasure and magic items at full value (permanently destroying them) to his ancesters to enhance his particular relic, which is a shield.
He has a standing offer of 60% of value for items unwanted by the rest of the group, which they split three ways instead of 50% split four ways. He then sacrifices it for full value and boosts his shield.
Because it permanently destroys the sacrificed item, it is a way to get a good benefit from an evil item that will never fall into the hands of evil-doers again.
It also makes it so no item is completely useless. And his shield is going to be powerful.
-Jack
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Creative Director
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One of the problems with pre-made adventures is, of course, that they can't be tailor fit to every group. The GM should personalize and customize each adventure to his or her group, as a result. If that means changing an NPC's longsword to a glaive because you have a PC fighter who fights with a glaive, or dropping in a psionic item here and there if you have a psion, that's the way to do it.
The "wish list" idea is a good one as well. I'll incorporate something like that into the next AP Player's Gude (for Legacy of Fire), but in the meantime don't be afraid about altering the contents of any adventure so that it'll work better for your own group.
I know many DMs have a problem with magic item shops, but it really is the easiest way to let players simply sell and buy what they want.Assuming your players can somewhat suspend disbelief, why not have each of them give you a list of 5-6 items they'd like to see for their characters? As the encounters permit, work an item or two from each list into the loot.
I suggest a list of items much longer than what you'd ever plan to give out, just because the game world isn't McDonald's - players can't just place an order and wait. But I don't think it's too much of a stretch to at least provide something they're interested in once in a while - consider it karma. They're destroying evil; the game world rewards them for it. :)
I have done this in the past and it didn't work out well. I either could never get a list from the players or if I did and used the list they still sold the item as they changed what they wanted by the the time I handed out the item.
I guess personally I have a harder time with the disbelief of the exact magic item I want just showing up on a NPC then being able to buy and sell magic items. Plus as mentioned a good amount of the gear in RotRL is of the wrong size so the items have to be sold to allow usable equipment to be purchased. Buying and selling magic items are in the rules and I see no reason to go against it, but I am part of a older group of gamers and they only have time to play in one group. This means they get to play one character and limiting their play options does not provide a fun game environment. I am just saying what has worked for my groups and if a wish list works for you thats fantastic. I also understand that by me allowing a magic item shop that it makes me a bad person, but that is my problem. ;)
The only thing that is currently working for me is to add little extras on some of the found equipment, but it does not change the item cost. So for the first time ever I have players actually using the items found as they are a little better than what they could just craft/purchase. So it is finally providing a reason for players to keep the items found and put them to use instead of just selling them all.
For example the +1 longsword from the Mutated goblin in the catacombs was changed slightly. It now gives an extra +2 bonus to hit (above its normal +1), as a swift action, one time per 5 minutes. Tsuto's ring of protection can be used 1/day to absorb 5 elemental damage as an immediate action. So far this has gotten the players excited as a weapon or ring is no longer simply +1, but actually has some other little ability. As mentioned some of my players have been around sense AD&D days and to get another +1 longsword is really pretty boring, but now they are happy to read the index card I hand out to see what the item does. I have actually for the first time seen debate between players on who would like a magic item.
later
One of the problems with pre-made adventures is, of course, that they can't be tailor fit to every group. The GM should personalize and customize each adventure to his or her group, as a result. If that means changing an NPC's longsword to a glaive because you have a PC fighter who fights with a glaive, or dropping in a psionic item here and there if you have a psion, that's the way to do it.
The "wish list" idea is a good one as well. I'll incorporate something like that into the next AP Player's Gude (for Legacy of Fire), but in the meantime don't be afraid about altering the contents of any adventure so that it'll work better for your own group.
Oh I understand this possibility and I practice it often. Our fighter was lacking a good slashing or piercing weapon so I made the scythe the
On another note. I myself haven't played through it but my friend and a fellow GM told me that Red Hand of Doom, a module by you James and Richard Baker was about as close to perfection for doling out magic items as a DM or party of PC's could ever hope for. That and the fact that I'm told it's a good adventure is enough for me to want to purchase it with my next paycheck should I be able to afford it. I wonder at what you guys did to make it so good or if that could be applied to future AP's.
Again, not bashing the APs, nitpicking one of the exceedingly rare flaws I've discovered. There is one my players think exists and that's regarding things like
Still, thanks for the suggestions everyone, in a PbP 4e game I'm in our DM is using that wishlist thing and I like it and thus am placing it in my home campaigns along with passive perception. I also enjoy giving little alterations to magic items and may just convince our party fighter to take the Ancestral Item feat that was spoken of earlier. It would make sense, he's a half orc and Sheriff Hemlocks nephew (born of his and Garridens sister after an unfortunate encounter with raiders from the Holds of Belkzen) and I had one of them give him some armor. I think it would only make sense for an ancestral Earthbreaker to make it's way into the mix.
After further inspection the Ancestral Relic feat sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately I think it needs a little bit of an adjustment... make that a lot of an adjustment, to make up for possible lack of downtime and the power level the game is at. I for one see nothing wrong with a PC having a +2 weapon at level 6 instead of seven if within their means so... I'll play with it a bit and see what's what.