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Liberty's Edge

Sorry this is late, but we should wait until the 27th. Today is a mess for me all around.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Also, what level should we bring next Monday?

Hmmm... haven't plyed the "B Team" in a long time -- maybe bring your ranger & druid, if Derek can find Fiachra. What are they, like 5th level now?


houstonderek wrote:
Sorry this is late, but we should wait until the 27th. Today is a mess for me all around.

Roger that. No game today; the 27th is on.

Grand Lodge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Also, what level should we bring next Monday?
Hmmm... haven't plyed the "B Team" in a long time -- maybe bring your ranger & druid, if Derek can find Fiachra. What are they, like 5th level now?

I have Falandar at 4th right now. Derek?

Liberty's Edge

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Also, what level should we bring next Monday?
Hmmm... haven't plyed the "B Team" in a long time -- maybe bring your ranger & druid, if Derek can find Fiachra. What are they, like 5th level now?
I have Falandar at 4th right now. Derek?

Fiachra is 4th as well.


Last we left them, they'd successfully escaped from Aramni, IIRC. Go ahead and elevate them to 5th, if you get a chance.

I'll find and/or adapt a suitable scenario for next week. Derek, can you handle Trog as well as Fiachra?

Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Last we left them, they'd successfully escaped from Aramni, IIRC. Go ahead and elevate them to 5th, if you get a chance.

I'll find and/or adapt a suitable scenario for next week. Derek, can you handle Trog as well as Fiachra?

Well, considering she'll be my familiar soon enough, I had better be able to, huh? ;-)


houstonderek wrote:
Well, considering she'll be my familiar soon enough, I had better be able to, huh? ;-)

I'm keeping her at 4th level -- when you pick up Improved Familiar, she'll be a level or two behind (like a cohort), and then Bob the Drunk can stay under the umbrella of the Leadership feat, if you want to keep him on, too.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Andostre wrote:
Yeah, I'm out for a while.
We'll miss you! But a baby needs a daddy more than a party needs a wizard!

Would it be wrong if I drew a big ol' beard on him and gave him a cigar?


Andostre wrote:
Would it be wrong if I drew a big ol' beard on him and gave him a cigar?
Dr. Evil wrote:
I will call him "Mini-Me."

Liberty's Edge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
houstonderek wrote:
Well, considering she'll be my familiar soon enough, I had better be able to, huh? ;-)
I'm keeping her at 4th level -- when you pick up Improved Familiar, she'll be a level or two behind (like a cohort), and then Bob the Drunk can stay under the umbrella of the Leadership feat, if you want to keep him on, too.

Bob is just a hireling, or, if I'm in a generous mood, a henchman. If I take leadership (which won't be for another level or so), could I bump him up to second level?


houstonderek wrote:
Bob is just a hireling, or, if I'm in a generous mood, a henchman. If I take leadership (which won't be for another level or so), could I bump him up to second level?

You could bump him to whatever level your Charisma allows, in that event (relevant quote from feat is in italics; in essence, he can be anything up to 2 levels lower than you):

LEADERSHIP (General)

Spoiler:
Followers: The number of followers you may attract is determined by the sum of all followers’ individual CR scores, as determined by the following formula (this total is your leadership potential):

Leadership Potential = [(1/2)(Class Level + Cha Modifier -5)]^2

For example, a 9th level character with a Charisma of 15 would have a leadership score of 11, and a leadership potential of 9. He could attract up to 27 first-level experts or warriors (CR 1/3 each x 27 = 9), or up to 18 first-level fighters (CR ½ each x 18 = 9), or a kennel of 5 riding dogs (CR 1 each) and 4 2nd level ranger handler (CR 1 each), etc. You may attract followers of any number and CR up to your leadership potential within the following limits:

Maximum CR: There are three types of followers you may maintain: cohorts (aides or close companions); retainers (servants or men-at-arms dedicated to your service); and hirelings (contractors with no particular loyalty to you beyond being paid). You may have up to one cohort of a maximum CR equal to your character level –1. If you still have leadership potential remaining, the maximum CR for additional retainers is equal to your character level –3. Hirelings do not count against your leadership potential.

As you gain experience, you can “level up” or advance your followers as you see fit, as long as their final CRs conform to the above restrictions.

Special: A fighter with the Leadership feat adds half his fighter level as a competence bonus to his Leadership score.


Derek, you'll want to check out the v. 2.0 rogue I emailed.
P.S. Weapon Finesse now scales with BAB, in such a manner that even high-Str fighters can benefit:

WEAPON FINESSE (COMBAT)

Spoiler:
Benefit: With a light weapon, natural weapon, or weapon with the “finesse” property made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls and when calculating CMB. Additionally, you can substitute your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier when calculating any Strength-dependent DCs for Strike feats (q.v.) and/or strike talents you possess.
If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special:
  • If your base attack bonus is +6 or greater, you can apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on damage rolls as well as attack rolls.
  • If your base attack bonus is +11 or higher, you can apply both your Strength modifier and your Dexterity modifier to damage, and choose which modifier to apply to attacks and CMB.
  • If your base attack bonus is +16 or higher, you can apply both your Strength modifier and your Dexterity modifier to attacks, CMB, and damage.

    Source: This feat also subsumes the Agile Maneuvers feat from the core rules, and the Fury’s Fall feat from Cheliax: Empire of Devils.

  • Grand Lodge

    Glad you finally came around on that. ;)


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Glad you finally came around on that. ;)

    Yup. I'm susceptible to changing my mind, given more data and/or processing time.

    Edit: For this one, the missing piece that convinced me was being able to use BOTH, rather than either/or, at higher BAB.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Glad you finally came around on that. ;)
    Yup. I'm susceptible to changing my mind, given more data and/or processing time.

    Or enough nagging in this case, right TOZ? :P

    Grand Lodge

    Hardly kyrt. We've been so busy with work and our own games we've hardly had time to harass each other. :)

    I just find it amusing how close to the Tome feat it is.


    TriOmegaZero wrote:

    Hardly kyrt. We've been so busy with work and our own games we've hardly had time to harass each other. :)

    I just find it amusing how close to the Tome feat it is.

    That is pretty amusing. I've been trying to take a tact of having generally non-scaling feats that are just extremely badass all the way through, who's benefit is just as sweet all the way up.

    So far it's working out alright. After all, on a lot of those tome feats, you find yourself wondering "why the hell can't I use that part of it now?"

    Grand Lodge

    I'm thinking there needs to be an option to take a feat twice to gain the higher benefit at an earlier level. Right now my monk would lose abilities if he took this Weapon Finesse, because he already has WF and Agile Maneuvers. So maybe a character can take Weapon Finesse twice to get Dex on attack rolls and CMB, and when he reaches the level he would get Dex to CMB he can take a different feat to replace the redundant feat.


    kyrt-ryder wrote:
    Or enough nagging in this case, right TOZ? :P

    To his credit, TOZ doesn't nag; he suggests and then sits back and lets you ruminate. In my case, that's often more effective than nagging ;p


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    I'm thinking there needs to be an option to take a feat twice to gain the higher benefit at an earlier level. Right now my monk would lose abilities if he took this Weapon Finesse, because he already has WF and Agile Maneuvers. So maybe a character can take Weapon Finesse twice to get Dex on attack rolls and CMB, and when he reaches the level he would get Dex to CMB he can take a different feat to replace the redundant feat.

    Agile maneuvers has been rolled into Weapon Finesse, eliminating a redundant feat entirely. Your monk takes Weapon Finesse and it applies to attack rolls and CMB at 1st level. The other feat he originally burned on Agile Maneuvers can now be spent on something useful instead.

    Grand Lodge

    Yeah, the only person I harass is seekerofshadowlight. :)

    I should read more carefully next time. Oh well, Cyz and I are going over characters today anyway, so I'll catch it then.

    Liberty's Edge

    Damn, Cadogan just keeps getting better at inflicting a little hurt before he falls down!

    Did we level that group after the ogres? I don't remember.

    Grand Lodge

    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Last we left them, they'd successfully escaped from Aramni, IIRC. Go ahead and elevate them to 5th, if you get a chance.

    You can stay 4th, we're gonna go ahead and level. :)


    houstonderek wrote:
    Did we level that group after the ogres? I don't remember.

    Not yet -- the ogres are dead, but you have so far totally failed to save the town.

    Spoiler:
    Or figure out what all those drow symbols are about.
    Spoiler:
    Or do much of anything except kill ogres.
    Grand Lodge

    You mean there are other things to do besides kill ogres?


    *cough*

    Agun Glengrim wrote:

    I've put up a very compressed character sheet on this alias' profile, should you guys need to reference it while I'm on hiatus.

    Kirth, would any of the following skills be useful in figuring out if we can use the giant amulet on the dying demon to keep the dam running?

    Knowledge (Lore) 11
    Knowledge (Planes) 11
    Spellcraft 12


    Andostre wrote:

    *cough*

    Agun Glengrim wrote:

    I've put up a very compressed character sheet on this alias' profile, should you guys need to reference it while I'm on hiatus.

    Kirth, would any of the following skills be useful in figuring out if we can use the giant amulet on the dying demon to keep the dam running?

    Knowledge (Lore) 11
    Knowledge (Planes) 11
    Spellcraft 12

    You're guessing that, if the demon is strong enough to be sustained by the amulet, he's also strong enough to teleport away once you break the circle. A better bet is to put another demon in the other circle...


    Sorry for the threadjack, but Kirth, TOZ, (and others) I'm curious your thoughts on this thread fixing the critical effect feats


    Meanwhile, not to jump the gun, but once you guys are done, Mr. C will have a message for Cadogan:

    Spoiler:
    Mr. C wrote:

    We got a piece of, uh, "merchandise" in which I am led to believe you would potentially have a particular innerest. The thing is, the price tag is a bit high -- more than I pay you, and more than you skim on the side with your other operations (and don't think for a second I don't know about 'em, kid). Still, I'd like to offer you, uh, let's call it "first refusal." The market value of the object in question is 82,000 sterling -- a bit of a joke, seeing as the guy I acquired it from was using it as a garbage disposal, until I fed him to it.

    Now, it could be that I know where you can get the money. Naturally I'd expect my usual cut. So whaddya say -- you innerested? If not, I got others who are."


    kyrt-ryder wrote:
    Sorry for the threadjack, but Kirth, TOZ, (and others) I'm curious your thoughts on this thread fixing the critical effect feats

    Check it out. I can email or post some more Strike feats if you're interested.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    kyrt-ryder wrote:
    Sorry for the threadjack, but Kirth, TOZ, (and others) I'm curious your thoughts on this thread fixing the critical effect feats
    Check it out. I can email or post some more Strike feats if you're interested.

    Posting more is cool. I'm curious to see how that discussion builds up.


    To all the gamers in Houston, a very Fawtl Christmas to you!


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Meanwhile, not to jump the gun, but once you guys are done, Mr. C will have a message for Cadogan:** spoiler omitted **

    Oooooohhhhh....

    I think I know what this is.

    I am going to move heaven and earth to come up with the 82k for this.

    Or, you know, rob some rich folk or something.


    Cadogan wrote:
    I am going to move heaven and earth to come up with the 82k for this.
    Spoiler:
    Mr. C. wrote:

    The only place outsida the Royal Treasury for that kind of silver -- and no, we ain't robbing the treasury (at this time) -- the only other place is Benambra's horde. One of those secret underworld-god cults; they worship death or something. Yeah, I know, it's stupid, to hold something so cheap in such high regard, but people do not always act in their best innerest, you unnerstand?

    The thing is, you want to run a cult to Nerull or Hades or whatever, it's not a legitimate temple, which means there's no heat if we pull off the operation. No political consequences; no legal complications of any kind -- a clean score, except of course for the, uh, former owners. But that's the thing. A god with no worshipers, I'm thinking, inn't much of a god.

    Of course there's a catch. Secret cults are secret. People have been looking for Benambra's Gold for decades, and ain't found it.

    Listen to me carefully, Cadogan. We have ways of knowing things that most people do not. You want to remember that.

    We have a guy in the temple. You want to ask me if he's "trustworthy"? No, of course not, with that amount of money at stake. So we're going to send someone else in, to realize our investment, so to speak. You want to be that guy. You clean the place out, even the light fixtures. You bring it all back here.

    Your share of the operation is 82,000 sterling. So, what you say, kid?


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Cadogan wrote:
    I am going to move heaven and earth to come up with the 82k for this.
    ** spoiler omitted **

    Spoiler:
    What's the catch? "Secret cults are secret?" Um, yeah? And, I'd have to take at least Agun with me, he's a terribly useful dwarf, but, um, he's a dwarf, so unless I could convince him the doodad is mutually beneficial, he'd probably need a bit of incentive as well...

    Cadogan wrote:
    ** spoiler omitted **

    Mr. C. doesn't much care who you bring (within reason) or what you do, as long as you bring back the loot. The "catch" is the next sentence after that: a not-so-subtle warning to Cadogan not to get cute; translation: "we found the top secret horde that everyone has been looking for for decates; we can sure as hell find you if you even think about walking out before you make the delivery." Just in case he decides the full score is worth more than an 82K trinket.

    Oh, and how to motivate allies to help? That's Cadogan's problem.
    Mr. C. is not interested in ground-level details like that.


    Agun: Killing the hag covey has stopped the magically-induced precipitation. Using your runestone, you can summon a runehound into the empty circle to get the dam to "click on" enough to alleviate the pressure and keep it from breaking. That would buy you more than enough time to get back to the University of Hylore and commission a scroll of lesser planar binding to put a longer-term "battery" into place (enough to power the dam for a few seasons).

    Also, Agun's been attending the University for two years now; it's reasonable to assume that he's taking electives as well as applied wizardry classes. You can therefore take 1 level of Expert (the NPC class) without it affecting his CR (much like Cadogan has that 1 near-useless level of psion). That'll give you something to do while you're out!

    P.S. Merry Christmas to you and the wife (and I assume the baby by now as well)!

    Grand Lodge

    Kirth, was it your intent to move Fast Healing to the regular Ranger Lore list? It still mentions it as an advanced talent, did you mean to edit that to a minimum level requirement?


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Kirth, was it your intent to move Fast Healing to the regular Ranger Lore list? It still mentions it as an advanced talent, did you mean to edit that to a minimum level requirement?

    Ugh -- errata and FAQ starts already!

    Delete the word "advanced." Insert the following sentence: "You must be at least 5th level to gain this lore."

    Grand Lodge

    Well damn. Now I have to choose between that and Imp Uncanny Dodge...

    Not to mention if Overhand Chop is a good choice to fill out his switch-hitter style...


    For those coming tomorrow:

    I've burned 2 CDs with the version 2.0 house rules (not including the errata that TOZ spotted above -- thanks!). Merry Christmas/Happy Chanukkah/Pleasant Solstice!


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Not to mention if Overhand Chop is a good choice to fill out his switch-hitter style...

    Overhand Chop isn't available until 6th level, so that's out for at least 1 more level.

    Grand Lodge

    I see Backswing has the 6 BAB requirement, but not Overhand Chop. Is that a v2 change, collapsed down into one feat?


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    I see Backswing has the 6 BAB requirement, but not Overhand Chop. Is that a v2 change, collapsed down into one feat?

    OVERHAND CHOP (STRIKE)

    When wielding a two-handed melee weapon, you can deliver a devastating blow.
    Prerequisites: Str 13, base attack bonus +6.
    Benefit: As a standard action, make a single attack with a two-handed melee weapon. If you hit, roll damage normally but add double your Strength bonus to the damage roll. This multiplier scales with your base attack bonus, according to the following table.

    Base Attack Bonus / Strength Bonus Multiplier
    +6 / 2x
    +11 / 2.5x
    +16 / 3x

    Normal: You normally add 1½ times your Strength modifier to damage rolls with a two-handed weapon.
    Source: This feat supersedes the variant class feature of the same name from the Pathfinder Advanced Player’s Guide.

    Grand Lodge

    Okay, cool. He should be fine with +6 to damage instead of +8 for now.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Errata and FAQ starts already!

    I'll try and keep a current list of all v. 2.0 additions, corrections, and errata in the profile of this alias.

    I'll also email replacement documents for any substantial rewrites.

    Grand Lodge

    Cyz gave me FTP access, so I can host the files if you want an easily linkable place for sharing online.


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Cyz gave me FTP access, so I can host the files if you want an easily linkable place for sharing online.

    That would be out of sight! If you could periodically update the docs there with the errata (or just give me editing permission like we had before), we can keep something of an up-to-date Aviona SRD going.

    Grand Lodge

    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    That would be out of sight! If you could periodically update the docs there with the errata (or just give me editing permission like we had before), we can keep something of an up-to-date Aviona SRD going.

    We can talk it over together tomorrow. Just to warn you, the domain name is spunsugar.net so... :)

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