COBI: Spoiler Question

[Stannis]

Spoiler:

I'm concerned that the Hezrou room is going to be a TPK for my party. They are going to be 13th level when they hit that room. So if the Hezrou use Blasphemy in a coordinated way I'm looking at probably 8 rounds of PCs standing around dazed. That would also mean about 13 unholy blights. Even if they make all their saves the party is probably looking at somewhere in the range of 140 hp of damage. So here's the question, do you think the Hezrou are patient enough to do this coordinated attack or are they just too chaotic to work together?

I don't want to try and force them to 14th level because it's still pretty far away.

[ellegua]

Stannis wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

That's definitely an issue with those critters in particular - well, really the issue is with the spell, and the fact that they can use it at-will. I've always imagined those guys as big, brutish, "I have all these abilities but I'd much rather beat you to death with my enormous fists" kind of monsters -- and played like that, your players have a fighting chance. If you play them as intelligently as possible, I agree your players are probably toast unless they specifically prepare tactics against the method you describe (which isn't necessarily outside expectation for a group of 13th level characters, but still).

Shameless promotion: Alternately, this would be a great encounter to play-test the Pathfinder adjustments to that spell, which are in the Alpha document and thus available as a free download. ;)

[Stannis]

ellegua wrote:

Stannis wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

That's definitely an issue with those critters in particular - well, really the issue is with the spell, and the fact that they can use it at-will. I've always imagined those guys as big, brutish, "I have all these abilities but I'd much rather beat you to death with my enormous fists" kind of monsters -- and played like that, your players have a fighting chance. If you play them as intelligently as possible, I agree your players are probably toast unless they specifically prepare tactics against the method you describe (which isn't necessarily outside expectation for a group of 13th level characters, but still).

Shameless promotion: Alternately, this would be a great encounter to play-test the Pathfinder adjustments to that spell, which are in the Alpha document and thus available as a free download. ;)

That's what I was thinking..."I'd rather get my hands dirty than use silly spells"

You make an excellent point on using the PFRPG...I'm a bit ashamed that I didn't think of that...seeing how I'm always preaching about it to my players.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Khartan]

Stannis wrote:

ellegua wrote:

Stannis wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

That's definitely an issue with those critters in particular - well, really the issue is with the spell, and the fact that they can use it at-will. I've always imagined those guys as big, brutish, "I have all these abilities but I'd much rather beat you to death with my enormous fists" kind of monsters -- and played like that, your players have a fighting chance. If you play them as intelligently as possible, I agree your players are probably toast unless they specifically prepare tactics against the method you describe (which isn't necessarily outside expectation for a group of 13th level characters, but still).

Shameless promotion: Alternately, this would be a great encounter to play-test the Pathfinder adjustments to that spell, which are in the Alpha document and thus available as a free download. ;)

That's what I was thinking..."I'd rather get my hands dirty than use silly spells"

You make an excellent point on using the PFRPG...I'm a bit ashamed that I didn't think of that...seeing how I'm always preaching about it to my players.

Thanks for the suggestions.

By the time I run this AP again, our group will be using Pathfinder. It’s hard to switch in mid-game. It’s also a bit chancy to pick and choose (like just using the spell descriptor for one spell), but I see where it would certainly help here.

Sorry, I wasn’t really contributing to the inquiry. I just wanted to put in my plug for Pathfinder (shameless or otherwise).

[Matthew Vincent]

Hezrou's tend to be TPK's if played right. I like providing my players with a challenge though. Since the players can't do much, this whupping shouldn't take much real time, and the players will (and should) probably flee (in order to teleport back in the next day with a much better plan).

Some notes:
1) If any PC's (or cohorts) are below 13th level, the strength loss from multiple Blasphemy's does not stack.
2) The Hezrou probably aren't perfectly coordinated, and might have some rounds where they overlap Blasphemy's. 6 rounds of PCs standing around dazed would be about right.
3) The Hezrou will probably throw in some chaos hammer's and full attacks as well... so maybe 3 hammers, 3 unholy's and 3 full attacks before the last of the Blasphemy's are used. Best to roll this ahead of time so as not to waste time on an unfun situation... average unholy/hammer damage is 22.
4) Don't forget about the Hezrou stench ability.
5) The Hezrou might use non-lethal attacks so as to capture live sacrifices for later (and yes, they can teleport away with unconscious PC's). Saving someone from an Aztec-style sacrificial ceremony on the Ziggurat outside can make for a pretty cool scene.

[ellegua]

Khartan wrote:

By the time I run this AP again, our group will be using Pathfinder. It’s hard to switch in mid-game.

Threadjack! :)

As the Alpha was coming out, my STAP group moved en masse cross-country (there's only three of us). We left the AP at the end of SWW, after the shipwreck.

We picked it back up a few weeks ago, after converting everyone to Pathfinder. The notion of these heroes washing up on the Isle of Dread slightly altered and with new powers was just awesome; it was a great transition -- but I'll admit I had all the stars align for me.

And of course, now they trust that Tiefling (Abyssal) Sorcerer that much less. But what're ya gonna do? ;)

/threadjack

[vikingson]

hmm, the hezrous' Blasphemy power has the weakness of being acoustics dependent _sonic_ effects. What you cannot actually hear cannot harm you

Our group, aware of their presence, and knowledgeable about their power(s) used a "Silence" (which renders mute any sonic dependant effect/power, no pun intended) spell to ward themselves. the wizard didn't particularly like it, but with plenty of melee-based DD in the group, and the tanks "Dimension Door" ferried into full attack position things went well enough.

yes, careful scouting use of knowledge skills and some tactical skill on part of the characters/group is necessary, but.... I mean "silence" ! does anyone not pack that ? At least as a scroll ?
COBI is a nasty step upwards in deadliness from the preceeding installments, but in all honesty,IMHO at these levels many if not all encounters come down the point of "anyone surprised ?" and "who gains initiative ?"

[ellegua]

vikingson wrote:

hmm, the hezrous' Blasphemy power has the weakness of being acoustics dependent _sonic_ effects. What you cannot actually hear cannot harm you

Vikingson makes a really good point here. When our group ran this encounter, the Cleric/CombatMedic was already packing Silence on a regular basis, and both she and our wizard had Rods of Silent Spell. Add a tank with a Holy, Outsider Bane weapon, and we made pretty short work of the three Hezrou. Of course, we had learned our lesson by getting jumped by a Hezzy in an earlier random encounter -- in the middle of our repairing of the Sea Wyvern, no less. Those poor, poor NPCs... ;)

So yeah, smart tactics can counter the TPK threat pretty easily. It fails to diminish my irritation at how many critters in the AP have at-will Blasphemy SLAs. Who wants to star in a silent film these days? ;)

[primemover003]

What really sucks about that encounter is that Hezrou have no swim speed (as they did in 2nd ed) and they're encountered in a water filled room! I bumped mine up to 15HD and changed up their feats to make them heavier hitters because my party ate normal hezrous for lunch in ToD!!!

[Matthew Vincent]

primemover003 wrote:

What really sucks about that encounter is that Hezrou have no swim speed (as they did in 2nd ed) and they're encountered in a water filled room!

I found that odd too. But I didn't worry much about it since I figured the Hezrou could just walk along the bottom of the shallow water during combat (And could easily hold their breath for as long as the combat would take).

[Stannis]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and comments...here's one last thought...Would an active freedom of movement prevent the daze effect?

[Matthew Vincent]

Stannis wrote:

Would an active freedom of movement prevent the daze effect?

Nope. Look here.