To take this thread in a different direction has anyone played the Saga Edition of the Star Wars RPG?
I currently have both the original d20 version of Star Wars and the West End Games version, but if I were to try to build a new group, I know those rules might be hard to come by.
So, is the new version of Star Wars any good? Is it worth buying and getting together a group for?
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I've played all three versions.
The group I've had most recently played a campaign with d20 for a couple years and transitioned it to Saga when that came out. The transition went fine and the rules were easy to understand.
I like Saga. I like it better than WEG and D20 version as I found it more "playable". We found that the mechanical changes sped up the game in a good way. I also very much preferred the ship/vehicle rules, I thought they did a good job there.
The good thing is that Saga just tweaks D20. We were able to very easily convert our d20 characters over to Saga. It's not the big leap that is dnd3.5 to 4e.
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Frankly, I was opposed to SWSE before it came out. I didn't see RCR as broken. Alas, when it came out - I was pleasantly surprised and have since switched versions.
I like the streamlined approach and find the rules for combat and force powers much easier to grasp.
(And yet I continue to prefer 3.5 D&D to 4e.) Hinky.
Frankly, I was opposed to SWSE before it came out. I didn't see RCR as broken. Alas, when it came out - I was pleasantly surprised and have since switched versions.
I like the streamlined approach and find the rules for combat and force powers much easier to grasp.
(And yet I continue to prefer 3.5 D&D to 4e.) Hinky.
But was not the Star Wars Saga Edition the "test bed" for D&D 4th?
What did they do "right" that did not happen in 4th?
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Frankly, I was opposed to SWSE before it came out. I didn't see RCR as broken. Alas, when it came out - I was pleasantly surprised and have since switched versions.
I like the streamlined approach and find the rules for combat and force powers much easier to grasp.
(And yet I continue to prefer 3.5 D&D to 4e.) Hinky.
But was not the Star Wars Saga Edition the "test bed" for D&D 4th?
What did they do "right" that did not happen in 4th?
4th makes a lot more changes. Saga did the consolidated skills and removed skill ranks in favor of trained or not, but didn't include powers or make character/monster roles a rule. I'm sure somebody else can add more; I haven't used it in awhile.
Star Wars SECR (Saga Edition Core Rules) is great.
It has to be my favorite d20 system to date (including 3.5). The simplicity is awesome (though you do still have to have a copy of the errata and FAQ files).
I would highly recommend it, especially since they are halfway through putting our a free adventure path (Dawn of Defiance) which has been great fun for my group.
Good Gaming,
-c
I have all the D20 books and thought the system was just fine. Saga isn't a bad game however. Unlike what they did with 4th I think generaly Saga's changes to the sytem were fine. The reason is simple, in Star Wars its assumed everyone can fly a starship okay, and using a blaster is almost as common as using a microoven in our world. More importantly conversion between the two systems is simple only needs a little work. But for my money the D20 is still better (except for starship combat which is the only reason I'm getting Saga, frankly the starship combat system is the best such system in D20 so far).
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What INUH said. Also whilst saga has reasonably high hitpoints like 4e, you can only second wind once a day (I think? I may be misremembering) and it takes three swift actions to do, healthpacks don't heal that much and can also only be used once a day and surgery can be risky. Add to that the fact that blasters can do a lot of damage and you get really tense (you can spend a force point to prevent death, but it's the principle dammit), fast-paced combat with lots of running around trying to get as much combat advantage as possible (getting behind cover, going prone, aiming etc.) it's pretty cinematic, which is what you want from Starwars. 4e is also very tactical and cinematic, but that's less important for me in a fantasy game (yeah, very much personal preference there), but with the lesser damage and healing surges coming out of people's ears (especially with Clerics and Paladins slinging them around) I find it turns into multi-round slogs way more frequently than SWSE, which is less fun.
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To take this thread in a different direction has anyone played the Saga Edition of the Star Wars RPG?
I currently have both the original d20 version of Star Wars and the West End Games version, but if I were to try to build a new group, I know those rules might be hard to come by.
So, is the new version of Star Wars any good? Is it worth buying and getting together a group for?
I have an ongoing game that started with Saga, but my group reacently asked if we could play RCR instead. I enjoy Saga as a GM but my players found it to be too complex.
I have found SAGA meets all my SW needs really well! The classes have lots of options in the form of talent trees, rather than picking one of 3 to 5 powers of a specific type at each given level like 4e. The rules are much more similar. And the Force system allows anyone to use Force powers if they want, which goes a long way to offset the need for a dozen spcific PrCs for each force user ever seen in the EU.
I can't recommend it enough,. And, Rodney (the wotC guy in charge of it) came up through the ranks of fandom. He's a great writer, and a great guy, and REALLY cares about the material, which shows in the books he produces.
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Star Wars SECR (Saga Edition Core Rules) is great.It has to be my favorite d20 system to date (including 3.5). The simplicity is awesome (though you do still have to have a copy of the errata and FAQ files).
I would highly recommend it, especially since they are halfway through putting our a free adventure path (Dawn of Defiance) which has been great fun for my group.
Good Gaming,
-c
I'm about half way through Echoes of the Jedi right now.
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I also will shower praise for the Star Wars SAGA Edition rules. They're streamlined, easy to learn if you've played 3.5, they offer a ton of customization (it might seem like 5 classes is not enough, but they allow you to do quite a bit, and when you throw in Advanced Classes, it seems about any Star Wars character concept could easily be built), they fix the problems with Force Powers inherent to the previous RCR rules, and most of all, they give a really cinematic feel to the battles. Everyone is moving around, jumping in and out of combat, doing all sorts of neat things.
The only thing detracting points from this game is the editing, there are quite a few errors that snuck into the final version, but I suppose that's unavoidable. I think the last line in the Droids chapter is pretty inexcusable, however (look it up, it's hilarious!).
Thankfully, WotC seems to be ready to release errata when it is needed, and the product line is now starting to get some suppport, with the truly fantastic Starships of the Galaxy, and the intriguing Threats of the Galaxy, and (coming soon), the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Book.
If you're looking for a Star Wars themed game, you can't go wrong with SAGA. Even if you're not, it's worth checking out, just for the really smooth vehicle/starship combat rules (not to mention the amazing starship design rules in Starships of the Galaxy).
My opinion is that SWSE is the best d20 implementation anywhere, for just about anything. :) I've already kitbashed into sword-and-sorcery and Call of Cthulhu-style pulp mystery/horror, and I have my eye on using it for a Crimson Skies RPG in the not-too-distant future.
It's fast, flexible, has all the good parts of the d20 system, without bogging down into minutiae or falling apart after 10th level. ;)
Can't say enough good about it!
-The Gneech
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My opinion is that SWSE is the best d20 implementation anywhere, for just about anything. :) I've already kitbashed into sword-and-sorcery and Call of Cthulhu-style pulp mystery/horror, and I have my eye on using it for a Crimson Skies RPG in the not-too-distant future.
It's fast, flexible, has all the good parts of the d20 system, without bogging down into minutiae or falling apart after 10th level. ;)
Can't say enough good about it!
-The Gneech
And yet WotC didn't seem to learn from its success. Hmm.
And yet WotC didn't seem to learn from its success. Hmm.
Yeah, well, I've got theories about why WotC made some of the choices they did, but those and $4.50 would buy you a latté so I won't waste messageboard space with them. Suffice to say that D&D and Star Wars probably have very different goals from a marketing standpoint.
-The Gneech
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What I like about SWSE is the condition track and that vehicles are represented the same way a people.
Characters/vehicles have hit points and a condition track. You die/wrecked when you run out of hit points and you are unconcious/disabled when your all the way down the condition track. I like this because a weapon set for stun doesn't affect a characters hp, likewise for ion cannons and starships. Also, conditions introduce a winnowing effect to the game, which is interesting. As you move down the track you get penalties to your attack rolls, ability checks and skill checks.
Characters, droids and vehicles (ground or starfaring) being represented (stat-wise) in the same way; gives the game a more unified and solid feel to me, YMMV.
On a side note, SWSEs Starships of the Galaxy's rules for starship customization are light years ahead of the ones for d20.
Well, SW Saga has the stunningly well-thought-out idea of making Climb, Jump and Swim all separate skills to be trained in. I mean, if they can lump Bluff, Disguise and Forgery together as Deception, why the hell didn't they merge the three physical skills together as Athletics (much like they actually did do in 4th Edition)?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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We just started playing SW Saga saturday night. I'm still digesting the Jedi changes. Do you add your level to your skill roles? If not I don't like that I can't cross class the Jedi. Makes the Jedi Councelor uselss (Hmm, my talents rely on Persuasion, but I can't take it as a skill? Whisky Tango Foxtrot)
Also not sure about Use the Force as a skill, it seems that with the talents it's too flexible. Need Percepton? Check. Need Pilot? Check.
Also still getting used to the per encoutner concept vs. the vitality cost on force powers.
We just started playing SW Saga saturday night. I'm still digesting the Jedi changes. Do you add your level to your skill roles? If not I don't like that I can't cross class the Jedi. Makes the Jedi Councelor uselss (Hmm, my talents rely on Persuasion, but I can't take it as a skill? Whisky Tango Foxtrot)
Also not sure about Use the Force as a skill, it seems that with the talents it's too flexible. Need Percepton? Check. Need Pilot? Check.
Yeah, but getting those uses of Use the Force costs you *talents*. And you´ll find that talents are very precious, especially to a Jedi, who probably will want to take Deflect, Block and Redirect Shot, not to forget Shii-Cho and Soresu. And some of the Force Talents, and then not to forget... you get my point. ^^
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*nods* Thank you for your input gentlemen.
I'm still working on digesting the rules. As it stands I took my (human) bonus feat in Skill Focus, UTF.
I just still find it funny looking at the class and Ep 1 "We have sent two Jedi as diplomats." "They aren't trained in diplomats, but we sent them anyway."
Qui Gon: "I'm not a trained diplomat, but *waves hand* we're going to sit down and you agree with me."
*nods* Thank you for your input gentlemen.
I'm still working on digesting the rules. As it stands I took my (human) bonus feat in Skill Focus, UTF.
I just still find it funny looking at the class and Ep 1 "We have sent two Jedi as diplomats." "They aren't trained in diplomats, but we sent them anyway."
Qui Gon: "I'm not a trained diplomat, but *waves hand* we're going to sit down and you agree with me."
Take two Jedi Consular talents from the Core rules (Adept Negotiator followed by Force Persuasion), and Qui-Gon Jinn would have been a handy diplomat without needing the Mind Trick power to back it up.
Of course, this could just start me ranting on why the <expletive deleted> the Jedi Consular, Jedi Guardian, and Jedi Sentinel talent trees are only available to the Jedi base class, and not to the Jedi Knight and Jedi Master prestige classes too.