Dahak the Sorrowmaker

[Arcesilaus]

Howdy.

Since I am running CotCT with 4th edition rules and my players want to go to level 30 for their first campaign with the new rules, I was thinking about changing up the main bad guy to make him a bit more epic in nature. To that end, I was considering replacing the final BBEG with Dahak, the first evil dragon, as detailed in the article on dragons in Pathfinder #4.

First, does anyone see a major problem with this? He is given deity-type statistics, but I figure 30th level characters should be facing gods (particularly weak ones that are only partially bound to the incarnate at the time of battle).

Second, is there any more information about Dahak kicking around the Paizo vault or upcoming in the Campaign Setting book?

Thanks,

O

[James Jacobs]

There'll be more information on Dahak in "Gods and Magic," but not in the Campaign Setting book.

And while setting him up as a BBEG is fine... it DOES go against the general concept that gods don't have stats and can't be killed by mortals. Dahak isn't a major god, but neither is he a pushover. I'm pretty sure he's not a demigod, in other words.

If you DO give him stats, he should be pretty high up there; remember that the highest CR dragon is a CR 27 monster, and that's the baseline before you do things like add classes or elite array or templates or whatever. Dahak, as the god of evil dragons, shouldn't be approachable by a dragon. I'd say his CR should be, at minimum, CR 38 or so. Which is a pretty good argument to not bother giving him a stat block anyway.

That said... the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne DOES have something that might work for you already that's an interesting way that the PCs can interact with a creature that normally would be WAY to high of a CR for them to touch.

Also...

Spoiler:

A fair amount of CotCT revolves around Zon-Kuthon, and the fact that the dragon Kazavon was his champion. Throwing Dahak into that mix doesn't make much sense, so you'd probably want to replace Kazavon with some other dragon or something...

[Arcesilaus]

James Jacobs wrote:

That said... the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne DOES have something that might work for you already that's an interesting way that the PCs can interact with a creature that normally would be WAY to high of a CR for them to touch.

Curses!

I am, unfortunately, starting my CotCT campaign tomorrow and would love to have some idea about this mysterious endgame option that you're hinting at before we start.

Any chance you could throw it into a spoiler tag, or would it be considered giving away the ending?

O

[Insert Neat Username Here]

Here's how I see it:

Kazavon is one of the world's most powerful evil dragons (even more powerful than in the AP as written). He was a servant of Zon-Kuthon, but Dahak is angrier about the final destruction of one of the most powerful evil dragons than Zon-Kuthon is about the destruction of a servant who already failed him once. Therefore, Dahak manifests to avenge Kazavon after the PCs destroy the fangs, which could be the only remaining remnant instead of one of many.

EDIT:

James Jacobs wrote:

That said... the end of Curse of the Crimson Throne DOES have something that might work for you already that's an interesting way that the PCs can interact with a creature that normally would be WAY to high of a CR for them to touch.

Spoiler:

Is this like the part in A History of Ashes with the Havero's tentacles?

[James Jacobs]

Arcesilaus wrote:

Curses!

I am, unfortunately, starting my CotCT campaign tomorrow and would love to have some idea about this mysterious endgame option that you're hinting at before we start.

Any chance you could throw it into a spoiler tag, or would it be considered giving away the ending?

O

I guess I can spoiler a little...

Spoiler:

Basically, the PCs get a chance to battle Kazavon's incomplete spirit as it begins attempting to rebuild his body. They have a few rounds to do the right combo of attacks and spells and actions but if they don't stop him in time, they have a CR 24+ dragon on their hands. It's another one of the "cinematic" scenes, like the attempted execution of Trinia at the end of "Edge of Anarchy," but with a bit more die rolling.

[Insert Neat Username Here]

James Jacobs wrote:

Arcesilaus wrote:

Curses!

I am, unfortunately, starting my CotCT campaign tomorrow and would love to have some idea about this mysterious endgame option that you're hinting at before we start.

Any chance you could throw it into a spoiler tag, or would it be considered giving away the ending?

O

I guess I can spoiler a little...

** spoiler omitted **

This reminds me of

Spoiler:

the end of RotRL, where the PCs have a chance of awakening a cosmic horror if they don't destroy the Leng Device, only with less "sorry, you didn't enter the right room and take the right actions in it. The world ends."

[lojakz]

Insert Neat Username Here wrote:

This reminds me of ** spoiler omitted **

That whole scenario tickles me for some reason. When I run RotRL's i'll be sure to throw some hooks out there for the PC's to help them avoid it, but I dunno... the possibility makes me happy.