Director of Brand Strategy
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Erik and James and the rest have all said that Golarion fiction is inevitable, but who will be writing it and how it will be gone about is still up in the air. This topic has popped its head up a number of times since Pathfinder was first announced, and even more since Pathfinder RPG was launched, but at this point it's still a ways off. Only the Powers That Be can say how long that is, and they seem content to leave us fans in the dark on their plans past six months from now (ahem*Chris Self*) so we're all waiting to see how it'll be handled. Chances are, though, that it'll be someone internal to start, or short stories as opposed to a novel. *shrug* But for your final question, pick up the Gazetteer for an overview of the world, and the Campaign Setting in August at GenCon for a more detailed world-view.
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I admit, I had hoped to someday write for Forgotten Realms as well, but with the changes not only to D&D but to FR, I found my hopes slowly but inevitably fading. I have my own world in the works, of course, and my own novels...but, now, I hope to someday write a Pathfinder story if I can, either novel or short story. Of course, I want to wait for the campaign setting book and stuff like that, just to get a better idea of the world, but I have been reading the Gazetteer to get a better idea of how things work. Golarion is a rich and promising world, and maybe someday I can realize my dream of writing a story set within it :)
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I'd love it if these novels had the iconic characters as the protagonists.
So would many of us, and hopefully in familiar locations. :)
Anyway, as said, they're said it's inevitable. I believe it was said by Eric that starting a fiction line was one of his goals for 2009. Now that's not a promise, just what he's hoping for.
Assuming the Beta launches successfully and the interest in 3P remains strong, with Elaine currently doing serial fiction for upcoming Pathfinders, and Ed having reportedly created his own country in the campaign setting, I think it's only a matter of time before they both get lassoed into writing full length novels.
In the mean time, there's no reason why you can't create some of your own fan fiction and post it on the forums to pass the time. :)
"Elaine"? That wouldn't be Elaine Cunningham would it?
Yes, it would. :)
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Awesome! I once read "Daughter of the Drow". This book someone left at my house and one day I picked it up and started reading it. I didn't know then what a Drow was or that this was a D&D novel (I figured that out about mid-way through). Anyway, I loved that book and always meant to find the sequel and read it too (I forget the sequels name atm). Just a short year or two after reading that book, I began playing D&D. Since then I've read many of the Drizzt books (mostly because my DM can't stand him), and the first two trilogy's of the Dragonlance series.
Then I got WoW and my book reading ceased *ashamed*.
I forget the sequels name atm)
Tangled Webs and Windwalker (there are three books in that series now)
Novels haven't worked out for me yet, but I feel like I'm getting closer to that goal. Like so many before, I aspired to write FR novels at some point, and I have been able to work on the setting itself, but with the direction it has taken, I really have no interest in writing for new FR. Like 4th edition, the new FR really doesn't feel like FR anymore.
I did get to do a serialized novella for D20 Modern for the WotC site, so it isn't as though I haven't been able to get any fiction out there, but I'm really hoping that Paizo will tap me for some upcoming fiction.
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Paizo seem quite "booky" so I expect will strive from the outset to avoid some of the problems with much of the D&D literature to date. I think "erratic" is probably the politest way to describe much of it.
I'll concede I've read very few D&D novels -- the only ones I own are "Spellfire", "Darkwalker on Moonshae", "Icewind Dale", and "Pool of Radiance" which I think I bought about the same time (a decade and a bit ago) and ranged, if memory serves, from average to dire -- but I've dipped into a few over the last few years and haven't been impressed by any I've seen.
Let's not go back to the same old names -- R A Salvatore, Troy Denning, Ed Greenwood, etc. We need something more than a collection of FR books with some different proper nouns.
Let's pull in some fantasy heavyweights who can bring truly innovative stories and storytelling -- Gene Wolfe, Patricia McKillip, Peter Beagle, China Mieville. Let's play with the genre a bit and have Bangsian and fantastique stories. Let's have stories that owe more to Christia Sylfe than Tolkien.
Let's not go back to the same old names -- R A Salvatore, Troy Denning, Ed Greenwood, etc. We need something more than a collection of FR books with some different proper nouns.Let's pull in some fantasy heavyweights who can bring truly innovative stories and storytelling -- Gene Wolfe, Patricia McKillip, Peter Beagle, China Mieville. Let's play with the genre a bit and have Bangsian and fantastique stories. Let's have stories that owe more to Christia Sylfe than Tolkien.
Alternatively, I suggest bringing in new but talented writers. Salvatore, Denning, Weiss and Hickman, and Ed Greenwood - who were they before TSR game them their first break?
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Creative Director
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I suspect that when we fire up our Pathfinder fiction, we'll follow the same course we have with our game books—we'll be using established authors in the field at first, and perhaps eventually open things up to new writers. The fiction line decisions are still being made, though, so anything's possible!
I remeber the Jeff Grubb wrote so\me really great stuff for the early Magic, the Gathering novels (The Gathering Dark, The Brother's War) I dont know what else he's done, but he might be a decent author for Pathfinder.
Spelljammer, Manual of the Planes for 1st and 3rd edition, and a whole bunch of other gaming products. He also did Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Spur, Song of the Saurials, and Night Masks. Jeff Grubb is an old school gaming superstar and a hell of a nice guy. Get him to do a Pathfinder novel and I'll be happy to read it.
Jeff Grubb also wrote some great stories in the Forgotten Realms and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons comic book lines as well as writing some of the best FR fiction published (in fact, I wish more FR books had looked to Jeff's "template" for inspiration, i.e. local, interesting stories that felt important, but didn't alter the major pillars of the setting).
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Creative Director
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Spelljammer, Manual of the Planes for 1st and 3rd edition, and a whole bunch of other gaming products. He also did Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Spur, Song of the Saurials, and Night Masks. Jeff Grubb is an old school gaming superstar and a hell of a nice guy. Get him to do a Pathfinder novel and I'll be happy to read it.
He's also writing an article about drow for us for Pathfinder #15. Jeff's the man!
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Spelljammer, Manual of the Planes for 1st and 3rd edition, and a whole bunch of other gaming products. He also did Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Spur, Song of the Saurials, and Night Masks. Jeff Grubb is an old school gaming superstar and a hell of a nice guy. Get him to do a Pathfinder novel and I'll be happy to read it.
Azure Bonds is easily the best D&D novel I've ever read, and I used to read all of those damn things.
Really? I found I couldn't get past the first couple of chapters.
Azure Bonds is easily the best D&D novel I've ever read, and I used to read all of those damn things.
I wouldn't honestly say that its THE BEST, I think that would either go to Spine of the World, Darkwalker on Moonshae, any of the first six Dragonlance novels, or one of Gygax's Greyhawk novels, but it does rank up near the top for me. It's one of the few D&D novels that I've read more than once.
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Really? I found I couldn't get past the first couple of chapters.
Oh, too bad. It gets really good late into the book. The whole subplot involving Moander was pretty awesome, as I recall. Then again, I read that when i was like 14, so maybe if I read it again I'd grimace.
I wouldn't honestly say that its THE BEST, I think that would either go to Spine of the World, Darkwalker on Moonshae, any of the first six Dragonlance novels, or one of Gygax's Greyhawk novels, but it does rank up near the top for me. It's one of the few D&D novels that I've read more than once.
Darkwalker on Moonshae is the one with the displacer beast and the perytons, right? That one was pretty good, mostly because of the battle with the displacer beast.
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I suspect that when we fire up our Pathfinder fiction, we'll follow the same course we have with our game books—we'll be using established authors in the field at first, and perhaps eventually open things up to new writers. The fiction line decisions are still being made, though, so anything's possible!
Awesome! I look forward to reading whatever's released, and hopefully I can get the chance to work on something myself :)
Ive been stealthy (sure!) trying to incite a call for Pathfinder novels on the boards. Good thing other people came up to arms in this rally ;)
Hijacking the opportunity, Id like to ask something to The Powers...
Today begins my vacation after 2 years of quest writing and game designing for a space mmo... Im also finishing the last version of my second novel (an intro novel for the mmo)
And what do writers do on their vacations?
Write, of course!
The only difference is that we can work on personal/side projects ;)
So, since Im already DMing CotCT and got hipped up by all Golarion goodness, I want to write a short fiction somewhere in your playground. I was wondering if it would be ok to do it and post somewhere (here or on a blog?). As fanfic as legally possible ;)
From this wednesday Ill be internetless for a couple of weeks, but I should be back around the 26th with things to show. What you say? ;)
Hopefuly scribbling notes,
- Beraldo
Here is a little teaser ;)
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The creature shrieked as the bolt pierced its dark chitinous armor and the ancient stones beneath it. Thynen stepped back, keeping an eye on the struggling beast as experienced hands reloaded the crossbow.
- I might be wrong, but I think someone said this was going to be a simple exploration.
- Your fault for believing a crossbred.
As the army of three-foot long scorpions made their way over broken pillars and a mix of sand and debris, Thynen shot another bolt, slashing the tail end of another of the monstrous vermins. Two down, hundreds more to go. By his side, the half-elven scholar shot his own crossbow far less efficiently while looking puzzled at the markings on the walls.
- It doesn’t say anything about an endless army of scorpions here.
- Would you advertise your traps to would-be looters?
- I am not a looter, - replied the scholar, angry. – This is a scientific expedition.
- Tell that to the scorpions.
Four more down and an insane Koda advancing on them, bringing down his borrowed khopesh on any of the creatures that got too close. It wouldn’t last long. Thynen looked around the chamber, despaired for an easy way around it.
It wasn’t different from any of the other chambers in this temple. High walls covered in fading hieroglyphs, huge statues of forgotten gods and tons of what once made this place safe all over the floor. It probably hid the exits these scorpions used as hideout.
Above then, Thynen’s eyes found something different.
- Koda. Look up.
As the huge warrior stepped back from the scorpion swarm, Thynen conjured the energy for a simple spell. His free hand touched the half-orc, transmuting magic into physical power.
Without the need to ask, Koda leaped up towards the closest statue. Propelled by magic, the bulky warrior reached the crosses arms of a jackal-headed god, then leaped again, towards a stone bridge connecting two passageways high above.
- Does it seem wise do remove our only melee power?
Thynen ignored the scholar and the climbing warrior. He stepped back again, repeating the fire and reload routine. He trusted both men and knew they would do their best.
The scholar understood the silence. With a sighs, he pulled a vial of fiery orange liquid from one of his pouches and flinged it towards the advancing scorpions. The glass shattered and the liquid inside ignited as soon as air enveloped it. More of the arachnids died. Others retreated. Too many more were there to replace them.
Thynen look up, apprehensive. The half-orc had just reached the stone bridge and the four ancient chains that held it above. With fierce slashes, he hit the rusty links. One by one, the chains gave in.
Time and weather had punished those stones enough. Without support, the bridge began to crumble. Koda leaped away towards the statue that allowed him up as the last chain broke and the stone bridge came down.
Thynen and Syleshia jumped back into the protective cover of a corridor and stone and dust of years rained down on the scorpions. Sight was lost, and so was the sound of the scorpion army.
They waited for the dust to settle, their heartbeats and heavy breathing the only sounds they could hear.
- Damned osirians…
Just no novels written by winners of a novel writing contest please?
*shudders at the memory of how bad that Realms novel was*
Which one was that?
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I wrote this under a new topic in Pathfinder RPG, but it seems more appropriate here:
I would like to see Pathfinder Novels. I would subscribe to that in a heartbeat. Definitely would be nice if subscribers could submit a writing piece in order to get considered for a novel (being a Pathfinder novel subscriber). One thing I like about Paizo, they create heroes among their peers and fans.
I believe it would be interesting for us to be able to submit our works within the Pathfinder Universe under strict guidelines by Paizo staff (though to do so you must be a subscriber to Pathfinder Novels). Naturally, this project would require a kick start from some of the well known writers at Paizo.
Eventually, new writers would appear on the scene through their submissions. These writers could become the new blood to propel the novels farther. And who knows what kind of written entertainment this could generate within the reading/writing peers. I would almost say, that the readers and writers would feed on each other...kind of self generating the pathfinder book line.
I am not sure how feasible this idea is, but I do believe that subscribers in themselves would support each other's works and create a whole new book club, with writing benefits. I must say, I am not much for stating out adventures and writing technical adventure details, but I can sure tell a good yarn, and love to read them.
I have never seen such an idea implemented before, but I sure would like to believe that Paizo would like to get Pathfinder Novels off the ground, and what better way than to get everyone involved, as Paizo has done in the past with its adventure contest. This is the kind of excitement we know Paizo for.
Cheers,
Zuxius
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I think that the primary problem with submissions, aside from a vast array of quality, is that it is very time consuming for the Paizo staff to sift through them all to find the diamonds among the coal. While I have a few ideas kicking around for what I think would make excellent Golarion fiction, I wouldn't want any of the Pathfinder editors to have to read it when they have better things to do. I'm content writing fanfic for the time being, if I ever get up the energy to actually write any of it, that is.
Fiction won't kill Pathfinder but it will not help, and will thereby look to cap its potential as a game (for reasons discussed previously).
Why would it not help? Fiction was launched at the same time as the Forgotten Realms setting as well as the Dragonlance setting, and both of those turned into major successes and helped drive interest in the RPG products.
What I like about game world fiction is the fact that is dispenses with all of the abstract setting elements and focuses on a single point of consciousness that interacts with the tangible elements of the world. This provides the reader with an immersive experience that helps with the visualization of the setting. That doesn't even address the fact that it helps supply the world with recognizable heroes and often introduces new villains, which in turn help build up the brand.
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I think that the primary problem with submissions, aside from a vast array of quality, is that it is very time consuming for the Paizo staff to sift through them all to find the diamonds among the coal. While I have a few ideas kicking around for what I think would make excellent Golarion fiction, I wouldn't want any of the Pathfinder editors to have to read it when they have better things to do. I'm content writing fanfic for the time being, if I ever get up the energy to actually write any of it, that is.
Well, I was thinking that myself. That is why it would have to start out with the original designers of Paizo staff. As they grow their professional writer team (and I don't believe Paizo would let anyone into that team), then they could form a panel to review works and decide what gets through (or just how far it goes). I think everyone at Paizo woud be reading these books, and I doubt they would let something past that doesn't reflect Paizo's setting.
As far as them reading and being sidetracked...not really.
Cheers,
Zuxius
Most D&D-related fiction is pretty bad. If Paizo is going to go that route, I hope they find some really good authors to work with. Has Paizo published fiction in the past? If so, who wrote it?
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Most D&D-related fiction is pretty bad. If Paizo is going to go that route, I hope they find some really good authors to work with. Has Paizo published fiction in the past? If so, who wrote it?
I'd have to disagree. WotC has raised some rather impressive authors to the forefront:
Richard Byers, Elaine Cunningham, Paul Kemp, Thomas Reid, and Lisa Smedman, to name but a few.
Most D&D-related fiction is pretty bad. If Paizo is going to go that route, I hope they find some really good authors to work with. Has Paizo published fiction in the past? If so, who wrote it?
Paizo has an ongoing line of novels called Planet Stories - http://paizo.com/store/paizo/planetStories The next book to come out is going to be a previously unreleased novel by the late Gary Gygax.
I'd have to disagree. WotC has raised some rather impressive authors to the forefront:Richard Byers, Elaine Cunningham, Paul Kemp, Thomas Reid, and Lisa Smedman, to name but a few.
I concur, but let's not forget Salvatore (yes, I like the dark elf, and I've been reading those books since the first one was released), Weis and Hickman, and Douglas Niles. Some D&D fiction is actually pretty good. Many of WotC's authors go on to have careers outside of the D&D novel line as well.
I'd have to disagree. WotC has raised some rather impressive authors to the forefront:
Richard Byers, Elaine Cunningham, Paul Kemp, Thomas Reid, and Lisa Smedman, to name but a few.
I tried Kemp - didn't like him. I didn't care much for Byers. Smedman and Reid I haven't tried. Cunningham is pretty good.
and Douglas Niles.
Maybe he's gotten better, but one of the first gaming-related novels I ever read was The Messenger, by Douglas Niles, and it stands to this day as one of the two or three worst books I've ever had the misfortune of purchasing. In fact, after reading it (and since it was the first gaming novel I read) I didn't buy another gaming novel for years.
Luckily I stumbled onto Mel Odom's book about war with the Sahuagin (a race I've always thought was cool) and I realized there was at least one good author writing this stuff. From there I read Salvatore. Not long ago I picked up Cunningham on a recommendation. Quite good.
Also, not D&D related but Nathan Long's Blackheart novels are quite good (Warhammer universe).
Maybe he's gotten better, but one of the first gaming-related novels I ever read was The Messenger, by Douglas Niles, and it stands to this day as one of the two or three worst books I've ever had the misfortune of purchasing. In fact, after reading it (and since it was the first gaming novel I read) I didn't buy another gaming novel for years.
I haven't read The Messenger, so I can't comment one way or another. The first novel I ever read by him was Darkwalker on Moonshae, which I actually quite liked. The two followup novels in the Moonshae trilogy were also by him and quite good, in my opinion.
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Well, I will say that there is a learning curve in writing novels, and some of these guys (referring to above on the D&D novels) are at their first go at it because they have been in the industry (and see this as the next logical step) or plain created a setting themselves (and have been rewarded with book rights).
That said, the novels can help or hinder a setting, but it is really up to editors and the proof readers to get things "write" (Heheh). I would love a crack at this "novel writing stuff" for fun sake, but I am willing to step aside for talent if there be better. In my opinion, there are always better people to write books, but they live in a hut in africa and starving to death. Since that guy is unable to bring his masterpiece to the plate, I will have to do. :)
In otherwords, there is always someone better than you out there, but it might not be the famous ones that everyone thinks will bring home the series. It could be the underestimated posters on these very boards.
Goodnight!
Zux
Mistress of Pain.Which one was that?Just no novels written by winners of a novel writing contest please?
*shudders at the memory of how bad that Realms novel was*
Hm... I didn't think it was that bad. Master of Chains... Now THAT was awful. The whole Lady Penitent line, oh yes. But I can't remember reading MoP and thinking "this sucks!"
I've said it before and at length so I won't repeat myself but just say this - when you launch your Pathfinder fiction line, it will mark the beginning of the end for Pathfinder.
I disagree. It can help the world. You just have to take care that you don't enslave the setting to the novels - just as you have to take care not to enslave the setting to the rules. wizards did both with their realms, apparently, and the result was a lot of lost fans.
But I think Paizo is a lot smarter in that regard. They already showed us that they won't commit the error of making the rules the most important thing, so I don't think they'll turn the setting into the novels' sidekick, either.
Its a simple matter of statistics. If you publish too many novels, its bound to be too many bad ones. Ask anyone who reads Stephen King ;)
On a personal note, D&D-based novels were a key factor to making me into a RPGer and DM as well as many of my friends. I handled the Chronicles of Dragonlance around my school class back in the days and got a very good hipe for the game, to the point that I had to "train" two of my first players as DMs 'cause I couldnt handle the amount of players. Of course there are bad experiences. I recently got "Son of Thunder", which sucks and is one of the few novels I never finished, and "Master of Chains", which was going ok, but goes too heavy handed on explaining the character's transition to said prestige class and then ends in a too predictable way
Which takes me to the second point: Transition of one media to another is never easy. You see it in how novel-based movies go. They CAN'T be the same because what works on novels (the narrator, character feelings, memories, etc) don't work well on movies
The same goes to RPGs transitioning to Novels. Neither the rules set nor the feeling is the same, so you got to be careful about it.
As a personal experience, I have recently just concluded the first novel of a space sim sci-fi MMO in which Im responsible for game content (that is, characters, missions, story, setting, etc). My proposal was exactly to link novel to game
A couple of weeks ago I was part of a presentation in a fiction convention explaining Shared Worlds in Shared Medias (novels, computer games, graphic novels, etc within the same Fictional Universe, with several authors), and one of the subjects was the difficulties and liberties on the transition of one media to the next. For example, how I describe a dogfight or distances can't be exactly like in the game, since there game has certain limitations. You can't fly at realistic speeds in space because it would be impossible to shoot eachother in a dogfight ;)
What does that have to do with anything Pathfinder related? Its as was mentioned before: there is a needed learning curve for writers. Just as I had to learn that MMO storytelling is far different from RPG ou single-player computer games storytelling, I had to learn that its also different from novel storytelling. Maybe that is the problem with some novels: writers they too hard to simply put the RPG into the novel, and not uncommonly fails miserably
On another note, as was also mentioned, you CAN'T put a casting on the Shared Universe. If the objective is to make the game universe richer, you can't tell the DMs or players what they cant too all the time. What you need is to guide them into new stories and new ideas. Im quite sure Paizo can do it, otherwhise their Pathfinder Adventures wouldnt be so successful