This is a subject that was bugging me mildly at the outset, and has become more of a problem for me, logically, as I am working on an Adventure.
The POL idea postulates that there are small pockets of civilization, with some really dangerous areas in between. At the same time, the PHB (or maybe DMG, can't remember which I read it in) contemplates that even in small villages the PCs are going to be able to re-supply, sell stuff, buy magic items, etc.
I don't think those two concepts jive very well. Even without POL I think the availability of selling and buying can be problematic, and with POL it seems to get worse.
In the adventure I am currently writing, the action takes place around a small village near the shores of a lake in the crater of a long-dormant volcano. The village is basically the dead end of what once might have been a more traveled road. There is nowhere to go past it. The area around it is wild.
The village is small. Villagers survive mainly on hunting, fishing, and foraging. Maybe some planting even though there's a very short growing season.
There is no reason in the world there would be any magic items for sale in this village. There is not much reason that even most gear would be available. There is also no good reason that anyone would have the means or desire to buy loot that the PCs accumulate. It just doesn't make any sense.
A merchant caravan was suggested in another thread by P1nback, and I think that's generally a good idea. In this case, though, there is no reason a merchant caravan would come to this village, at least not with the kind of stuff PCs want. They might come to trade flour and the like for fish, furs, or whatever, but that's about it. And given the POL setting, travel is dangerous enough that it's more likely that a merchant caravan would never even bother coming to a village this small.
Anyway, I want to write the adventure without having a completely ridiculous supply of gear and equipment in a village where it would never be, but I also don't want to get too far outside of what the rules contemplate for fear of hampering the party too much.
The economy of POL doesn't appear to have been thought out much if at all in 4E.
Thoughts?
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Taking some inspiration from the early middle ages, you could equate magic items with Books.
Books were very expensive goods.
Who had almost a monopoly on Books?
The Church.
Why?
Because the Church could afford scribes who did nothing but copy books.
The scribes had the knowledge how to write.
They were able to provide for them and the expensive vellum and color pigments.
So who is able to buy and/or sell magic items in PoL?
The Churches and Wizards' Guilds.
They have the knowledge of how to create magic items.
They have the means to provide those who craft the items with the ingredients. and they also have the means to safeguard these items.
So in a PoL campaign there can be a powerful abbey of X or a Wizards' Guild, who will buy items and sell items.
Yeah, I think that's a really cool idea, Tharen. I'm not sure there would be any reason for those guys to be in this village though. In fact, there would not be.
Do you think having the adventure center around a village with no provisions other than the bare necessities is going to hurt the PCs too much? 4E seems to contemplate that what they need is readily available even in the smallest of villages.
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The economy of POL doesn't appear to have been thought out much if at all in 4E.
Well, you're right, the economy is vague. I think they glossed over it on purpose.
Here are some things to consider:
1) Mundane items cannot be sold unless you say they can.
2) Art objects present an issue. If the village has any kind of nobility they might be willing to buy such things. Or, you can rule the items can't be sold until a merchant caravan comes to town.
3) "Merchant caravan" can be a catch all term. Tinker caravans, small time merchants, and NPC adventurers might be willing to buy, sell and trade for items they know they can use or unload at another location. Halflings also participate in river trade on a fairly regular basis.
4) Unlike 3.x, the purchase and sale of magic items are not a given in 4e. The PHB lists market prices much in the same way pre-3.x editions did. It isn't assumed there is a healthy magic item trade and the PHB does state magic item stores really don't exist. What's nice is they give a DM an out. So a healthy magic item trade is no longer a requirement and eliminating it does not harm your party all that much.
5) When determing treasure parcels make sure you follow the guidelines in the DMG and provide items your characters can use. If their ability to buy and sell is hampered you need to make sure they get what they need. But, once again, the system does not assume that buying and selling is common so this should work out fine.
6) Provide the Disenchant and Enchant Item rituals. This allows your characters a chance to break down old items and create new ones they don't find. Provide Brew Potion as well.
These are just some thoughts off the top of my head.
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Do you think having the adventure center around a village with no provisions other than the bare necessities is going to hurt the PCs too much? 4E seems to contemplate that what they need is readily available even in the smallest of villages.
Well, are you limiting the purchase of mundane goods in some way?
If not, you should be fine. 4e assumes there is easy trade access to most mundane goods but does not assume the same for magic items. Selling items requires you find a buyer and if you assume there is no buyer then there isn't much difference between selling an item and reducing it residuum.
D&D has always assumed an inflationary economy where villages and towns are recieving an influx of gold from adventuring parties. This assumption is in place because it is simply easier to handle than dealing with a realistic economy. In return the natives find ways to cater to adventurers or the party finds a way to obtain the things they need.
If your campaign doesn't assume this then you need to take a different tact or provide an outside source for these goods.
PoL doesn't assume a total lack of trade. It assumes many roads are dangerous. But merchants do travel down roads that are still relatively familiar if not wholly safe. If anything, caravan guards are a must have.
In the adventure I am currently writing, the action takes place around a small village near the shores of a lake in the crater of a long-dormant volcano. The village is basically the dead end of what once might have been a more traveled road. There is nowhere to go past it. The area around it is wild.
Obsidian (sp?) and similar volcanic materials could make for a reasonable trade stock for a seasonal merchant group, especially if there are some gifted craftsmen living in the village. That could supplement the other stuff you were talking about. It makes more sense if the village is off the beaten path, but that beaten path does travel nearby. It wouldn't be a bad stop for a group.
Thus, some of the traded items could have been magical spears and knives ('these will help protect your hunters'), or enhanced hunting leathers, and so on. Chances seem good to me that the local witch doctor would have the Brew Potion ritual, giving the party potential access to Potions of Healing.
You could have the 'Church' or 'Mage's Guild' who collects magic items send people out to find and buy them. These special operatives are actively searching for magic items. Just because a place is isolated doesn't mean that somone might not have found something in the old ruin nearby or that rusty sword on the mantle isn't a magic blade.
Well, are you limiting the purchase of mundane goods in some way?
Yeah, to some extent. I was envisioning the village as being of the sort that really only produces exactly what it needs, which means many mundane items you might find elsewhere aren't necessarily going to be available.
Obsidian (sp?) and similar volcanic materials could make for a reasonable trade stock for a seasonal merchant group, especially if there are some gifted craftsmen living in the village. That could supplement the other stuff you were talking about. It makes more sense if the village is off the beaten path, but that beaten path does travel nearby. It wouldn't be a bad stop for a group.
Thus, some of the traded items could have been magical spears and knives ('these will help protect your hunters'), or enhanced hunting leathers, and so on. Chances seem good to me that the local witch doctor would have the Brew Potion ritual, giving the party potential access to Potions of Healing.
I didn't even think of obsidian or other volcanic rock or materials. That's a good idea. Might provide an incentive for merchants to travel to the area and boost the village a little. Thanks.
You could have the 'Church' or 'Mage's Guild' who collects magic items send people out to find and buy them. These special operatives are actively searching for magic items. Just because a place is isolated doesn't mean that somone might not have found something in the old ruin nearby or that rusty sword on the mantle isn't a magic blade.
Hmmm. That sounds cool. Maybe such a person could be in the area. There are, in fact, ruins around that have such things. Thank you.
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You could make an adventure out of the party trying to get their stuff to a market.
This would work well, I think, in a POL that assumes that once there were all these interconnections and now they are gone. The party can work to rebuild some of the routes if they are interested in that kind of campaign or just use the old routes as a way to "blow this joint" once they have what they believe is enough money to make in the "big city."
I think that the concept of starting off in a small village with little or no resources is a good hook for an adventuring party and campaign.
You could make an adventure out of the party trying to get their stuff to a market.
This would work well, I think, in a POL that assumes that once there were all these interconnections and now they are gone. The party can work to rebuild some of the routes if they are interested in that kind of campaign or just use the old routes as a way to "blow this joint" once they have what they believe is enough money to make in the "big city."
I think that the concept of starting off in a small village with little or no resources is a good hook for an adventuring party and campaign.
I agree with Godu. If you don't see any need for there to be merchants who sell the kind of gear and magical items necessary for adventurers, perhaps the party saves up and heads off to the "big city" as he puts it. Along the way, perhaps they run into all sorts of trouble - maybe some bandits steal all their hard-earned loot. They can turn back or head into the big city anyways and just look for loot. When they head into the local pawn shop, they see all of their gear there on display!
In a POL world one might think of merchant caravans as being pretty large and loaded with all sorts of goods. They are not on a specific trade route where they go back and forth between a few villages but are in the business of taking goods from one end of a continent to the other. They don't expect to sell much in this backwards village - but if the locals do happen to want to buy so much the better. Their really here for the Obsidian which they can sell for very good profits in some distant city that they won't even arrive at for another 18 months.
Think of Merchant Caravans as some kind of fantasy equivalent to the merchants that would buy in what is now Singapore and travel (buying and selling along the way) from south east Asia, through India and the Middle East to Istanbul before turning around and heading back to South East Asia. Or alternatively think of the Silk Road and the merchant caravans that utilized it - especially the ones that used it when things where unstable.
If you can't fathom the idea that such merchants show up in the village more then once every three weeks or something then there could be a town or some such not to far away that is on some kind of significant trade route.
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Yeah, I think that's a really cool idea, Tharen. I'm not sure there would be any reason for those guys to be in this village though. In fact, there would not be.
Do you think having the adventure center around a village with no provisions other than the bare necessities is going to hurt the PCs too much? 4E seems to contemplate that what they need is readily available even in the smallest of villages.
You could equip the monsters with a lot of the basic stuff the PCs need. You could equip them with gear the PCs might find useful. So insted of the Greataxe, the Orc wields the Greatsword that the Fighter uses.
Basically tailor the gear to the PCs need.For bigger and better stuff the PCs will need to travel for 1-2 days to the Wizards Guild/Abbey.
You might even be able to add a sidequest. The Wizards do not need the XY item but would pay in magic items if the PCs could aquire this special ingredient for a ritual.
This might build a long-lasting relationship between the PCs and the izards/Monks/whatever.
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There is no reason in the world there would be any magic items for sale in this village.
STICK WITH YOUR SENSES. I hope you will not compromise the sense and sensibility that comes with being a great DM or adventure writer. That is, don't be swayed by incoherent crap coming out of 4e (if indeed you say 4e says hamlets will replenish their magic etc.).
I am currently running a POL campaign using PRPG rules and a homebrew world. At 1st-3rd level the PCs travel about a small Barony in the corner of a newly formed kingdom in the corner of a large continent on a great big world. When starting with hamlets, and small towns, its simply not necessary to say that towns have stuff - to use your words, just say there is no reason in the world there would be any magic items for sale in this village.
Besides, when did d&d become about magic items for sale. Prior to the 1990s, the very idea that PCs could "buy" magic was unheard of. Classic play involves the notion that magic is often never for sale, except perhaps in large cities or massive free ports where that kind of commerce is only natural.
I isn't clear whether you're writing professionally, or for sport, but the idea that someone (i.e. the 4e designers) can blanketly say the whole world is a POL scenario, is just a sign of imaturity and ineptness. Just look to great worlds like Columbia Games' Harn and see what the raw fantasy towns and hamlets live like, or ask any sensible DM and they'll suggest keeping the "merchandize" of power and magic out of the equation until the characters get higher in level and reach a major POL such as a very large town or small city.
Hope that helps.
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I must say POL is not a very mendable storyline. Considering a fantasy world is loaded with monsters that pretty much control the planet and hunt and kill those wandering in the darkness, leaves little credibility to me that you can find highly skilled craftsmen who are plentiful in their resource and prosperous in their element. That level of expertise is a rarity even among competent craftsman. I would go so far as say that there would be no expertise at all.
In a POL campaign I also think gold would have little value. I would say barter would be the order of the day, not gold. Gold doesn't protect you. Gold won't buy commodities when there are no places to go with it. POL would be a breakdown at all levels in my opinion. Without a major kingdom to enforce and protect property, you get a more secular law and order. All of these could of course have variations.
If I were to run a POL campaign, I would run it like civilization is almost wiped out and everything is going backwards into chaos. I would have at it by making eraser marks at those POL till there is nothing left. Vulnerability is pretty high when you have to go out and plant gardens and fields, set fur traps and hunt or go near fishing holes with God knows what in it. That humdrum lifestyle of bringing home the bacon just isn't dependable. The Inn won't have the muffins because this year's grain didn't get water because the farmer was eaten by a rampaging monster just outside the POL.
I do agree that getting fine equipment and armor must come from forgotten ruins of an ancient city, because a city would be needed to create such a thing of that level of craftsmanship.
You can throw out prosperity and castles and servants and fine clothing, and put in it's place foraging, surviving and hoping to see the next day after night fall.
Bottomline: POL is a world of fear and depravity. The darkness is truly something to fear and basic needs would take a high priority.
Cheers,
Zuxius
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I must say POL is not a very mendable storyline. Considering a fantasy world is loaded with monsters that pretty much control the planet and hunt and kill those wandering in the darkness, leaves little credibility to me that you can find highly skilled craftsmen who are plentiful in their resource and prosperous in their element. That level of expertise is a rarity even among competent craftsman. I would go so far as say that there would be no expertise at all.
In a POL campaign I also think gold would have little value. I would say barter would be the order of the day, not gold. Gold doesn't protect you. Gold won't buy commodities when there are no places to go with it. POL would be a breakdown at all levels in my opinion. Without a major kingdom to enforce and protect property, you get a more secular law and order. All of these could of course have variations.
If I were to run a POL campaign, I would run it like civilization is almost wiped out and everything is going backwards into chaos. I would have at it by making eraser marks at those POL till there is nothing left. Vulnerability is pretty high when you have to go out and plant gardens and fields, set fur traps and hunt or go near fishing holes with God knows what in it. That humdrum lifestyle of bringing home the bacon just isn't dependable. The Inn won't have the muffins because this year's grain didn't get water because the farmer was eaten by a rampaging monster just outside the POL.
I do agree that getting fine equipment and armor must come from forgotten ruins of an ancient city, because a city would be needed to create such a thing of that level of craftsmanship.
You can throw out prosperity and castles and servants and fine clothing, and put in it's place foraging, surviving and hoping to see the next day after night fall.
Bottomline: POL is a world of fear and depravity. The darkness is truly something to fear and basic needs would take a high priority.
Cheers,
Zuxius
Not a fan of Conan or the Shannara series then ;-)
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When i think of POL, I try to use real world analogis to come up with a few realistic ideas (with realistic having a different value than real world realism).
For me Europe in the Dark Ages and the beginning middle Ages can be used as analogy.
Here the rements of the western roman empire constitute the "fallen empire" scenario and the eastern roman empire constitutes the still existent empire that is slowing declining.
You can use the emerging arabic kingdoms as either the expanding "new kingdoms" or as the enlightend old elven/eladrin kindgoms.
Use the different tribes that are invading these lands as the many humanoid races (eg. Orcs) that pose a danger to the humans.
Then you have some pretty good ideas how things can work.
You can just open a history book and have a look at how people lived back then.
From these real world data you can extrapolate how things can work in your campaign.
When i think of POL, I try to use real world analogis to come up with a few realistic ideas (with realistic having a different value than real world realism).
For me Europe in the Dark Ages and the beginning middle Ages can be used as analogy.
And that's not a bad one, but I submit that you don't even have to go that far.
To anyone who has ever flown at night, or looked at a picture of the world from space at night, I submit that POL isn't as strange or unworkable as you might think.
Just because the only places really lit up are cities, towns, and hamlets doesn't mean that everything in between is an area of absolute darkness.
If I take a trip to backwoods noplaceinparticular, chances are I'm going to be able to find some hill or valley that is off the beaten path. If I go there at dusk or dark, it'd take no imagination at all to believe in things that go bump in the night. And that's today, when I could be carrying a flashlight, GPS, and pocket hand-cannon.
We live in this world, and it is possible to think of it in those terms...I think it's not such a great stretch to believe that POL can, should, and does work.
Not a fan of...Nah, Conan Rocks and you are right, Conan would be a POL type of campaign.
And even Conan could fence the right stuff in the right city. I like the nitty grittiness that you described earlier.
But that leaves one wierd spot: Teleportation circles. is there a really logical way to explain this?
And even Conan could fence the right stuff in the right city. I like the nitty grittiness that you described earlier.
But that leaves one wierd spot: Teleportation circles. is there a really logical way to explain this?
I'm assuming you don't mean "How do Teleportation Circles work in the realworld, what with the rotation of the Earth and the effects of relativistic velocity?" so uh ... what is the problem with the circles?
Cheers! :)
And even Conan could fence the right stuff in the right city. I like the nitty grittiness that you described earlier.
But that leaves one weird spot: Teleportation circles. is there a really logical way to explain this?
I'm assuming you don't mean "How do Teleportation Circles work in the real world, what with the rotation of the Earth and the effects of relativistic velocity?" so uh ... what is the problem with the circles?
Cheers! :)
Well, I was more referring to the upkeep/maintenance/day to day operations of them. It seems to me that the last great empire of Nerath would have invested a lot of time and money into these.
And maybe I missed it, but I can't find any ritual for the creation of one. Which means that they are hold overs from another time. Do they blink out over time? Can they be disenchanted? Stuff like that.
This is a subject that was bugging me mildly at the outset, and has become more of a problem for me, logically, as I am working on an Adventure.
The POL idea postulates that there are small pockets of civilization, with some really dangerous areas in between. At the same time, the PHB (or maybe DMG, can't remember which I read it in) contemplates that even in small villages the PCs are going to be able to re-supply, sell stuff, buy magic items, etc.
I don't think those two concepts jive very well. Even without POL I think the availability of selling and buying can be problematic, and with POL it seems to get worse.
Even a little research into population density and dynamics of survival will show that, given a POL setting at a given point in time, these remnants of civilization will collapse utterly in exactly one generation. If simulated reasonably, the poorly connected points would be quickly overwhelmed (chiefly by the surrounding evil in the world) in short order.
Check the old program called "Life". Start with your cells scattered too far apart and they will whither and die very quickly.
The economy is not the stuff of life, but a fair measure of its success. So, the POL economy must tend toward depression. In a few short years, a few powerful beings could wipe out the remaining local economies and further isolate communities, who could then not afford to provide for offspring... and so forth.
Basically, a POL setting, if played to its logical conclusion, even with heroic intervention, is statistically doomed to failure (from the perspective of the "good" guys anyway). The PCs who live in this world must completely correct the POL situation (an incredibly difficult and unlikely task) or know that the world will soon be overcome with utter ruin.
Points of Light are easily snuffed out.
Don't forget that the PC's themselves could very quickly become a source of trade. Trade hates a vacuum.
Say the people in the town live only building what they need and there isn't much trade. Once a group arrives looking to buy (with gold goods whatever) common items (rope, 10' poles, etc...) enterpising people in the town will start making them.
As for bigger ticket items, almost every town or community will have at least a tinker/trader who comes through every so often (monthly, bi-monthly, yearly, whatever) to trade more sophisticated goods (knives, pots, pans, etc...). Once they discover that there's a group with some big ticket items you can bet that that tinker/trader will have some big ticket items (or maybe just more gold) to buy/trade with the PC's.
Supply and demand, once the PC's start demanding supply will arrive. Maybe just not as quickly as they'd like.
Watching the town grow and economy grow because of the PC's actions can be really fun. Enterprising PC's might just start their own side projects as well.
Summary: Points of Light are doomed!
Out of curiousity, how would you propose that the original empires got going? At some point, no doubt, it likely resembled scattered points of light as well, no?
Well, I was more referring to the upkeep/maintenance/day to day operations of them. It seems to me that the last great empire of Nerath would have invested a lot of time and money into these.And maybe I missed it, but I can't find any ritual for the creation of one. Which means that they are hold overs from another time. Do they blink out over time? Can they be disenchanted? Stuff like that.
Ah, ok! That's better. ;)
There is currently no ritual to create a circle, so for now it's basiclly DM Fiat. Likewise rules for their longevity, disenchantable-ness (uh ... that certainly isn't a word there) and so on.
That said, here are some thoughts. Tracking down the coordinates to portal into some otherwise unreachable area (the collapsed ruins of some great Mage's Guild from long ago) sounds like an awesome adventure. More over, just because the idea here is Points of Light, doesn't mean some of those Points can't be rather large dots. Larger cities with established Temples/Mage's Guilds will likely have some setup, and once you get out into the Planes and see some of the trading metrolpoli (City of Brass, Sigil I'm looking at you) expect to find lots of 'em.
I do wish they'd have given us some rules for setting a circle up though. Hopefully it pops up either in a book or a dragon article sometime soon, although I guess the priority isn't exactly top notch here.
Cheers! :)
Well, I was more referring to the upkeep/maintenance/day to day operations of them. It seems to me that the last great empire of Nerath would have invested a lot of time and money into these.And maybe I missed it, but I can't find any ritual for the creation of one. Which means that they are hold overs from another time. Do they blink out over time? Can they be disenchanted? Stuff like that.
Ah, ok! That's better. ;)
There is currently no ritual to create a circle, so for now it's basiclly DM Fiat. Likewise rules for their longevity, disenchantable-ness (uh ... that certainly isn't a word there) and so on.
That said, here are some thoughts. Tracking down the coordinates to portal into some otherwise unreachable area (the collapsed ruins of some great Mage's Guild from long ago) sounds like an awesome adventure. More over, just because the idea here is Points of Light, doesn't mean some of those Points can't be rather large dots. Larger cities with established Temples/Mage's Guilds will likely have some setup, and once you get out into the Planes and see some of the trading metrolpoli (City of Brass, Sigil I'm looking at you) expect to find lots of 'em.
I do wish they'd have given us some rules for setting a circle up though. Hopefully it pops up either in a book or a dragon article sometime soon, although I guess the priority isn't exactly top notch here.
Cheers! :)
Once you master the ritual you get two sets of codes for the Linked Portal ritual. I assume they are one going from this place to to that place and vice versa. You could drop the players into the middle of nowhere and then have them hunt for the runes for the return ritual.
Out of curiousity, how would you propose that the original empires got going? At some point, no doubt, it likely resembled scattered points of light as well, no?Summary: Points of Light are doomed!
The terrestrial empires took ages to get going, and only did so gradually from a central starting point (Mesopotamia, originally) connected by trade routes that were not harried by kobolds and orcs and dragons (oh, my), etc. There was no overwhelming evil force preventing the building of empires, just contesting empire builders.
One could argue by analogy that the Romans and Gauls could represent humans and orcs, and that civilization survived, but Romans and Gauls were really both humans just trying to survive and succeed.
Points of Light works only if the localized might of civilized folk dramatically outweighs that of the surrounding evil hordes - and such a situation would result in the points becoming pools and then lakes and oceans in a few generations.
The point is that the POL setting, with chaos and evil contesting rebuilding, is inherently unstable. It will go either way, depending on the balance of power, in short order.
True, but one of the points of 4e is to get away from statistical analysis, population density, and economic modeling, and move more towards "let's have fun playing D&D with our friends." Yeah, it's not a realistic setting model but it sure is a fun one. You can fight monsters anywhere and there are no more dead areas (I'm looking at YOU, Mr. Positive Material Plane).
You are precisely correct. The POL setting, in practice, is a fun place to play (trouble=fun). In a long campaign or a one that spans generations of PCs (I've run two of those, where the final PCs were grandchildren of the originals), it is more likely that things will get worse or better. It could actually be an interesting long term campaign to return the empire to its former glory - minus the corruption that caused the trouble in the first place... But, then, that seems to set up a cycle of empire-ruin-rebuild-empire-ruin-rebuild... Hmmm... something to think about...
POL is doomed in that it cannot be permanent - though it may be repeated. It is but a single phase in the civilization building/destruction cycle of the campaign world.
The point is that the POL setting, with chaos and evil contesting rebuilding, is inherently unstable. It will go either way, depending on the balance of power, in short order.
Luckily for us light loving folks, a noble group of adventurers have stepped forward to put their finger on the scale. ;)
But on that point, I do agree with you. PoL is an inherently unstable period in time. Some points will begin to build up as others are tore down. Sounds exciting! :)
We're winding down our last 3.5 campaign and I'm excited about jumping into 4e with both feet.
Wear your boots. The high ones with the steel toe and shank that are certified to protect against snake-bites.
It's that different. Not necessarily bad, just different. Your mode of campaign planning has to change to match, or it will drive you nuts.
I too am quite busy with work and wife and kids, but do take the time to let campaign ideas simmer on the back burner while I'm toiling away at real-life.
POL can be appealing precisely because it is lends itself to episodic adventures that are not necessarily connected by a grand campaign scheme... it can essentially make regional or world-level economics not worth the trouble of considering. Which can be convenient for most, but many die-hard grand-campaigners will want something a little more connected - a world with more order than chaos - or at least the potential for such.
Once you master the ritual you get two sets of codes for the Linked Portal ritual. I assume they are one going from this place to to that place and vice versa. You could drop the players into the middle of nowhere and then have them hunt for the runes for the return ritual.
You don't need a teleportation circle to travel from an area, just to travel to an area. So you could have the coordinates for a portal in a local mage's guild, and maybe the priestesses abbey. You could certainly travel between them though, for a cheaper price! :)
Edit: Check it! Linked Portal
I'm starting to groove this Compendium thing!
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Points of Light works only if the localized might of civilized folk dramatically outweighs that of the surrounding evil hordes - and such a situation would result in the points becoming pools and then lakes and oceans in a few generations.
The point is that the POL setting, with chaos and evil contesting rebuilding, is inherently unstable. It will go either way, depending on the balance of power, in short order.
I like much of your analysis but it seems as if these last points assume that the darkness is simply out to destroy the light.
My sense is that the "evil" demi-humans like goblinoids and maybe orcs would be more interested in subjugation and domination rather than destruction. I think human settlements would be seen as a source of tribute rather than just a target for violence.
The human empires are probably built by liberation as much as by simple reclamation.
Points of Light works only if the localized might of civilized folk dramatically outweighs that of the surrounding evil hordes - and such a situation would result in the points becoming pools and then lakes and oceans in a few generations.
The point is that the POL setting, with chaos and evil contesting rebuilding, is inherently unstable. It will go either way, depending on the balance of power, in short order.
I like much of your analysis but it seems as if these last points assume that the darkness is simply out to destroy the light.
My sense is that the "evil" demi-humans like goblinoids and maybe orcs would be more interested in subjugation and domination rather than destruction. I think human settlements would be seen as a source of tribute rather than just a target for violence.
The human empires are probably built by liberation as much as by simple reclamation.
I guess that would be the difference between demons and devils now wouldnt it ^_^
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I guess that would be the difference between demons and devils now wouldnt it ^_^
Yep yep. When I read the sections on the tiers it seemed to me that the "world" is for the heroic tier and the "planes" were for the paragon and epic tiers. The people that live in and are in danger from the darkness in the PoL setting tend to face a relatively low level threat. It does not seem to me that points of light get squished by godzilla everyday.
I like much of your analysis but it seems as if these last points assume that the darkness is simply out to destroy the light.
That is, in fact, the primary motivation of evil. Of course, the evil ones see themselves as ridding the world of weakness and corruption and any who oppose their gods. Current real world events should provide ample evidence of such fervor.
My sense is that the "evil" demi-humans like goblinoids and maybe orcs would be more interested in subjugation and domination rather than destruction. I think human settlements would be seen as a source of tribute rather than just a target for violence.
While evil may tolerate and be entertained by the subjugation of the weak for a while, the weak will eventually be consumed and driven to extinction. Evil always views good as a target for violence, whether physical, economic, social or otherwise. Witness certain current extremist groups, whose primary stated goals are to destroy others simply because they do not follow the right god.
The human empires are probably built by liberation as much as by simple reclamation.
Quite the opposite. Empires, historically, are built by reclamation and destroyed by liberation. A few conflicts between empires may result in unions to form larger empires, but such could be deemed a form of reclamation. A liberation may be shortly followed by the formation of an empire, but they are not the same event. Witness the fall of French nobility through revolution and the resulting rise of the Napoleonic French Republic.
If you want to draw a parallel between points of light and the real world era that is most compelling, imagine the American west around about 1850, minus railroads. Then throw in all of the evil beasties you can gather up (native Americans were not such - they were largely honorable defenders of their land). Settlers had a hard enough time with snakes and wolves and famine and harsh weather. A few bands of marauding orcs and a couple of dragons would be sufficient to have cut the western expansion short rather quickly. Replace shotguns with magic wands, pistols with swords and whiskey with healing potions and... hmmm this is starting to turn into an idea...
Anyway, the point is that such tenuous times tend to not last very long, and that good most frequently triumphs... until the next batch of evil comes to town. PoL is an exciting place to start adventuring, but it will quickly become obvious to the players that it would be better for all if the world were more stable... thus begins the motivation of a save-the-world campaign that could very well lead to some interesting high level play.
PoL is doomed - hopefully, by the PCs themselves... because it's the job of the PCs to turn the points into pools into lakes into oceans...
Enough rambling... back to work for me... :)
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IN LANDS WHERE CHAOS REIGNS
Many Dungeon Masters have a lot of trouble handling the myriad components of their Campaign and this has often detracted from their quality. Certainly Dungeons & Dragons is much at fault considering the continuing need for personal scholarship amongst Dungeon Master and Player alike to simply fill in the blanks. Considering the concepts forwarded in Rich Baker’s POINTS OF LIGHT article will dominate the development of the 4th edition game, this is a good time to improve those campaign handling skills.
PART A – IMPROVED SETTLEMENT DEVELOPMENT
The earliest settlements emerge in the Neolithic as gatherings of families and soon grow into a Commonwealth - Large villages of families governed by family heads. They band together in common defence yet retain a propensity to family self-sufficiency. The Commonwealth Period gives way to inequality based in Specialization. Centralized Government and Religion begins its rise to the detriment of the Commonwealth. Unfortunately Specialization has its failings.
SPECIALIZED INDIVIDUALS
Within a community it creates a dependency amongst everyone in the community. Everyone must do their job but they require access to a common communication network to function within the community. Communities become divided with specific families devoted to certain tasks. Eventually these family divisions of labour can become geographical boundaries within the limits of the community.
SPECIALIZED COMMUNITIES
As Settlements and City-States become Nations encompassing many communities, they begin to specialize in certain tasks where other settlements specialize in an adjacent task.
As a consequence a community devoted to one specialized task requires communication with others who produce what they require and require what they produce.
Settlement vulnerability stems therefore from a dependency on the continuous function of the specialized system and its structures.
SETTLEMENT SPECIALIZATION
Specialization of the community (as opposed to specialization of the individual of the community) creates a dependency on those dwelling beyond the walls of that single community.
There are many such functions and their presence defines where they need to be located, what they must have access to, and how they function.
• Dispersed holdings – isolated independent farms with a selection of skills necessary to support their independent nature. There is little social interaction <Farm, Plantation, Ranch, and Dairy-farm>.
• Local market – a centralized community focussed on the collection and distribution of local produce. This type of community can function in isolation while access to a communication network is vital for the export of surplus produce <Granary, Barrel maker, Marketplace, Smokehouse>.
• Industrial – a community concerned primarily with the processing of raw materials into manufactured goods. Some will specialize in a single end-product. They have access to the resources necessary to process raw materials including labour, power (water for mills). Industrial communities require a communication network to function <Mill(water/wind/slave), Charcoal Furnace, Potter’s Kiln, Glass Furnace, Smelter, Distillery>.
• Commercial – a community involved in trade and financial activities (banking and money lending). They do not require traded produce to pass through the town and may be sophisticated enough to deal in document based trade and financial transactions. A communication network is critical to the survival of this community <Guild Hall, Bank, Moneylender, Roadside Inn, and Tavern>.
• Mining – this is involved in the extraction of minerals. It will be located where the minerals are and that can be anywhere. It requires access to a communication network <Clay pit, Stone Quarry, Peat Diggings, Salt Mine, Open Cut Pit, Obsidian Scrounge, Mining tunnels>.
• Administrative – this is the seat of government, whether the capital city or a local administration. This community will sit at a centre of a provincial or national communication network <Parliament, Council Hall>.
• Culture/education – these are centred on universities and colleges. They are centres of learning and have a selection of appropriate crafts to support the development, recording, and storage of information. There is some need for access to a communication network <University, School, Bard’s College, Wizard’s Tower, Theatre, Arena>.
• Ecclesiastical – religious centres drawing pilgrimage, or housing religious associations or shrines. These require access to a communication network <Church, Temple, Shrine, Sacred Grove, Altar, Religious School, Abbey, Monastery, Synod Council, Paladin’s Training Hall, Barrow, Burial Mound, Crypt, and Graveyard>.
• Primary Residence – this is the residence of a Ruler (Whether President, Emperor, King, Duke or Baron). It is a palace or castle and requires some access to a communication network <Castle, Palace, Keep, Whitehouse>.
• Resort – baths, recreational districts, retreats. They require a favourable geographical location that provides both safety and healing. Resorts function on a communication network <Bathhouse, Boarding Houses, Bed & Breakfast, Recreational Lake District, and Public Gardens>.
• Port – located on the coast as a fishing community, a centre of sea trade and travel or located on a river for the movement of goods and people by river. A port requires communication networks that extend over water and land <Fishing Village, Ferry, Boathouse, Ocean port, River Port, Siding, harbour, Docks>.
• Residential – these are designed to provide urban peoples with housing away from polluted, corrupted, or expensive urban centres. This specialization requires a second specialized centre in close proximity <Estates, Manor Houses, Suburbs, Ghetto, and Shanty Towns>.
It is because many of these specializations require access to a communication network to remain functional that they might easily become isolated and fall. Roads might be cut by armies or other disasters causing a land-locked community to decline. Ports on the other hand have access to communication networks over water and land and loosing one is not a total disaster.
MULTIPLE FUNCTION SETTLEMENTS
More familiar is the Specialization of groups or families within the settlement. A Large Community might be a port, a seat of a monarch, an administrative centre, a cultural centre, an industrial district, a commercial district, with ecclesiastical centres and outlying residential areas all rolled into one.
CRAFTING A SETTLEMENT
We blend the basic information available to us in the Dungeon Master’s Guide with our information to produce several different Settlements.
• The Farming District of Andemun. This “Village” consisting of some three hundred and twenty people (+20% children) where the most expensive item in the district is farmer Erasmus Shaw’s magnifying glass - which amounts to about a hundred gold pieces in value. Applying dispersed Settlement, Mining, and Port to our “Village”, we have a multifunction settlement occupying a reasonably safe region (mainly because a dispersed settlement is far more vulnerable to hostile intrusion than a centralized settlement – it is for this reason that our “Village” is not too isolated). Its level of isolation offers us a community upriver from the capital and down river from a major river port controlling a substantial farming district. There is regular traffic on the river offering regular news (perhaps a week old at most) from the capital and the port upriver. It is a settlement in its own right. Farms harvesting timber for firewood; a small granite quarry (employing five stonecutters) with a river siding where a merchant house from the Capital has arranged to buy direct from these “Farmers” straight onto its riverboats. Our “Village” also has a prospect for the future. At the current rate of forest clearing, the district will be ready for dairying in ten years. There is little happening here and when it does it is going to be pretty minimal. Perhaps the PCs might find themselves employed to run off some predators bothering the farmers to be paid in produce for their trouble.
• The Blackdog. This roadside Inn sits on a crossroads with access to a communications network (basically a regularly used corridor of information transfer). Information may come in and out from an assortment of locations on a regular basis and it sits on a trade-route where supplies can be bought from passing merchants and then sold to travellers for a marked up price. For adventurers it offers a respite before deciding which direction to go, or a bolthole where they can wait for information to fall into their laps.
• The Drift-port of Shadow has no real fixed population but numbers about five hundred on average. It drifts somewhere in the Rip (a Sea that flows north or south between the Island Kingdom of Ingoil and the Iron Kingdoms (this edge of the continent of Grun – The Rip is known to change direction)). It is a commercial centre and port involved in the trade of pirated loot and money-lending. At any time the Drift-port might consist of up to thirteen ships lashed together as the core trading port with up to thirty docked in port.
• The Temple of Dhurn, now buried under a landslide was dedicated to the forgotten God. It was a centre of Pilgrimage for its many practitioners and they brought many weapons here (which were dumped into the Peatbog) in sacrifice. In its day it had a population of six priests and thirty servants who tilled farmland in the valley of Penn to produce food, and tend the clergy’s every need. Currently it is un-active – being abandoned when the hillside washed down on it a thousand years back.
• Maidenshead is a small town of nearly two thousand citizens.
- The Serfs Quarter has around one thousand serfs who are crowded into many of the small, tightly packed mud-brick dwellings that dominate this large walled in part of the town – they toil in the fields, cut wood, and excavate clay from extensive diggings beside the river.
- Apothecary Row where several herbalists have residences/shopfronts to one side of a narrow, walled lane.
- The Baron’s Castle where the Baron, family, and some servants and administrative staff live and work.
- The Garden of Ash seems impersonal and abandoned considering it is a walled in bare gravel piece of land with ash, and charcoal marks where bodies are simply piled up with wood and burned.
- The Dogwall, (a walled off residential area providing a class with residential isolation from the urban centre) a walled ghetto where the Halfling populace of Maidenshead are forced to reside. Previously it was used to kennel the War-dogs of an early baron. Currently there are under a hundred Halflings crowded into the Dogwall and the gates are locked at sunset, and opened at sunrise each day. The only access to the Dogwall is direct to the Merchants Quarter.
- The Merchants Quarter is dominated by artisans involved in Pottery, and there are numerous Charcoal production furnaces and large scale Pottery Kilns burning (in some cases) all day.
Maidenshead sits on a clay brick mound on a plain of cleared ground at the outer edge of a river bend and while it over looks the river and any traffic there, it does not have a port (although travellers by boat might pull their vessel easily onto the bank and walk to the town. Maidenshead is linked to the Capital by road only.
THE DEBRIS OF ABANDONED SETTLEMENTS
When settlements are abandoned, due to what ever reason, many components are left behind. These components are often the hardest to remove (they are also characteristic of the settlement purpose) and will last centuries beyond the abandonment of the settlement.
• Carved Stone Obelisk, Steele, Monument, and Statue.
• Mine, Quarry, Smelter Pottery Kiln, and Blacksmith’s Forge, Charcoal Production Furnace.
• Stone Well, Irrigation Canal, Agricultural Field, and Plantation Crop.
• Stone Docks, Bridge, Stone Paved Road, Causeway.
• Cemetery, Barrow Mound, Outdoor Altar Stone, Shrine, Buried or Concealed Temple, Druid Grove, Ancient Tree, Ring of large Stones.
• Signal Tower, Watch Tower, Lighthouse.
• Fortified Cave, Bunker, Dungeon, Torture Chamber, Underground Laboratory, City Sewer, Catacombs.
• Castle Ruin, Foundations, Fitted Stone or Re-used Rock Wall, Chimney, Fireplace, Partially-buried Brickwork.
Consider the previously mentioned settlement of Maidenshead. Five centuries after the Baron was overthrown, all that is left is the foundations of a ruined castle with buried dungeons and treasure vaults, and the village of Dau’wal which is now located by the River. The old stone walls have been stripped down to their foundations (they are now used as road-ways separating extensive clay-diggings) and the rubble used to build a substantial trade dock and village foundation. Most homes are a mix of Adobe and fired brickwork representing the descendants of the original Slave and Halfling Population.
EVERY POINT OF LIGHT, ITS MIDDEN
By its nature we are as likely to find the forces of evil present within the dispersed settlements of our Civilization as loitering in the mud beyond its walls.
• The Barony of Melina is being terrorized by a “huge black wolf”. The predator is attacking lone travellers along the road that skirts the western edge of the hunting preserve of Baron Rugen along with the occasional peasant caught out on moonless nights. It makes its lair in the caves beneath Castle Witch-grave which sits atop the mountain. This hound shaped Iron Golem is bound with the soul of a werewolf, forged for Baron Rugen.
• Living on their isolated farm by the old road, the Jandemos are known to be the oldest farming family in the district and are greatly respected for it. No-one knows that the Jandemos have spent centuries abducting and eating stray travellers - their victims’ remains they dump in a deep cave on the ridge above their farm. Travellers go missing all the time in these parts but the Jandemos continue to go about their way of life without drawing much attention.
WRITTEN BY: S.R. Meaney 2007
IN LANDS WHERE CHAOS REIGNS
Nice stuff, but was there a copyright violation in posting this?
BTW, can chaos really reign? :)
IN LANDS WHERE CHAOS REIGNSNice stuff, but was there a copyright violation in posting this?
BTW, can chaos really reign? :)
I don't believe so. I think yellowdingo IS S.R. Meaney.