Deleted. Drew gave a better answer below.
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a. Cone Effects: Close Blast X
b. Ray Effects: Yeah, wall is the best I've got here.
c. Ongoing x (save ends, after first save x happens, after second save y happens)
Anyway, on your first point, I have serious doubts that cones were dropped due to DDI. Programming a cone effect is not all that hard (I make video games for a living, I've done this before.) I suspect it was for the reason they gave - simplify down to a few types of area effects, and use those.
On the last, a fixed duration conflicts directly with their desire to have encounter-duration spells. Actually, that is an answer you could use to substitute for a duration - until end of encounter.
Hope that helps some,
Drew Garrett
Either that or go with the substain effect route too for duration.
a) Cone Effects. A few of the beasties and spells that this project uses require 'cone' effects - such as 'Cone of Cold'. Turns out, there are absolutely neither rules nor guidelines for handling cones in the game. Worse than that, this was a DELIBERATE choice by WotC because cones don't work in the DDI.
Close blast.
b) Ray Effects. See above. A ray being 'start from me, go to X'. You can kinda fudge this with 'wall' effects, I suppose, but it's not quite the same. Even Lightning Bolt was rewritten to have a fireball like effect.
Use ranged attacks, or multiple ranged atacks.
c) Durations. This is a huge one. No spell has a 'fire and forget' duration style. No 'this effect lasts 4 rounds'... at all. Many, many spell effects are hosed as a result.
4E durations are typically:
- Until the end or start of your next turn- Ongoing effect (Saving throw ends)
- The entire encounter (up to 5 minutes)
- The entire encounter (up to 5 minutes) - requires a minor action to sustain
For higher durations, use rituals instead.
(sorry for the length, I apologize in advance for blabbing on)
Yes cones are totally out, now anything you want to do that would have been a cone (like cone of cold or breath weapons) are expressed as a close burst. I don't think this is really that big of a loss as my experience with cones at the table was usually more of a headache then they were worth. It may seem strange now, but once people who are playing 4e are used to the rules they will expect to see any effect like this as a close burst (and you could call it burst of cold, or waves of cold instead).
I think you meant 'lines' instead of 'rays' since rays never affected more than one target :)
Again the rules don't really lend themselves well to this spell effect but what you could do instead is a kind of chaining. Hit one person within 10 with a certain effect, target another within 10, if you hit it keeps going until it gets three targets... something like that (and I'm pretty sure this is how some electricity effects are now handled). I really like this with electricity (I think it mechanically fits the flavor better than a line actually) but it doesn't feel as good with other energy types (especially fire).
The new mechanic doesn't support timed durations, now you have to work for every round of extension of the spell. If you want to make a spell with a duration just give it a minor sustain - that doesn't put the caster out too much (just a minor action per round) - you could even do something like that to re-create delayed blast fireball. If you're designing a spell that lasts for more than one encounter then it's probably a ritual instead. Even if it was a trap effect I still think you could do this since a blaster trap is basically a creature and I think it would be able to take a minor action each round (I'd have to double check on this though).
In the end I wouldn't avoid making mechanics for cones and timed durations because of the GSL, I would avoid it because it doesn't really fit with the philosophy (for lack of a better word) of the new game. Close bursts are faster and easier to figure out than cones, and not keeping track of durations is faster and easier than keeping track of them. That's not to say that those things (cones and timed durations) are bad or that 4e is for simpletons. I'm just saying that making combat less about figuring things like that out is obviously one of the design intentions of the new edition.
Worse than that, this was a DELIBERATE choice by WotC because cones don't work in the DDI.
Not really. Handling all kinds of area of effect by a videogame is trivial. The ones who have difficulty with it are people. Maybe making everything "bursts", "blasts" and "walls" were an oversimplification, but with them, you will never discuss with your DM if an target is within an area of effect or not.
c) Durations. This is a huge one. No spell has a 'fire and forget' duration style. No 'this effect lasts 4 rounds'... at all. Many, many spell effects are hosed as a result.
There are spells which last for the entire encounter or 5 minutes. I like the ongoing effect system because it makes combat more unpredictable, rather than "Forget that guy, I stunned him for 7 rounds".
Use ranged attacks, or multiple ranged atacks.A seperate ranged attack for every single square/target between 'caster' and 'end target'? There's got to be a better way to handle that...
I do appreciate the help. I'm just really trying to hash this out.
You are right. I have a better idea:
"Make a ranged attack against the target, ignoring cover; additionally, make a ranged attack against every creature that would provide cover to the target."
Use ranged attacks, or multiple ranged atacks.A seperate ranged attack for every single square/target between 'caster' and 'end target'? There's got to be a better way to handle that...
I do appreciate the help. I'm just really trying to hash this out.
You are right. I have a better idea:
"Make a ranged attack against the target, ignoring cover; additionally, make a ranged attack against every creature that would provide cover to the target."
That's a very elegant solution... I like it.
- Ashavan
I'm not so sure that 'close burst' is any more or less mentally visual as 'cone' or , for heavens' sake, 'line'. Honestly, is it THAT hard to use a string or the edge of a piece of paper? :)
Not really, but it consumes time, can't be done if the cone is being cast from a higher ground/flying creature, neither works for sphere effects. And doesn't address the issue of targets being "partially" on the area of effect.
There are spells which last for the entire encounter or 5 minutes. I like the ongoing effect system because it makes combat more unpredictable, rather than "Forget that guy, I stunned him for 7 rounds".How is it unpredictable if it's always the same effect and will guaranteed last until the end of the encounter?
Sorry, I caused confusion by abprutly changing the subject. On this particular example, I was referring to effects that a save can end (not the 5-minute effects). I think that 3.5E had some effects that could be ended with a save, but they were clear exceptions.
"Make a ranged attack against the target, ignoring cover; additionally, make a ranged attack against every creature that would provide cover to the target."That's actually not a bad idea, and sticks to the GSL, which suits my purposes. So that's one down. :)
I'm happy I could help on at least one subject. =)
Yes, but we're talking about the DDI. Remember, these are the same guys that bragged about 3D models which would embarass the SNES not too long ago, and are nearly a full year late in producing a character generator. I can fully believe that it's past their ability to map a cone over a tile-based map.
Get real it has nothing to do with determining the aoe on a cone in software. In a world where a diagonal equals '1' then a cone is no longer cone shaped, if it was then then when you cast your cone of cold it would go further along its edges then straight ahead. This is how DDM 2.0 made cones work because apparently they had not thought it through yet which means if you want to use your cone most effectively you never point it at the guy you want to hit but rather put that guy along one edge.
After being shocked at first close burst actually is better when dealing in 1-1-1.
4e PHB, page 160. Ray of Enfeeblement. Range, line of sight, line of effect. Thats rays covered :-)
Well, I was doing it anyway in 3.5 - what does that make me?