I received my copy of Wizards' Keep on the Shadowfell adventure, the introductory 4th Edition adventure that includes pregenerated characters and quick-start rules for the new system. In my opinion, its production value, in a word, sucks.
For a list price of $30, you get a full-color pocket folder that contains the adventure booklet and quick-start rules (both are old magazine-style, folded with staples) and three full-color, double-sided battle maps (only 1/3 of which are new maps). The pregenerated characters (sample) in the quick-start rules aren't even in character sheet format, though that's presumably to contain the stats and rules applicable to each within a two-page layout.
The whole thing feels really cheap. For example, the adventure and quick-start booklets don't have back covers; there's text on the back of each. The pregen characters are each represented with a sketch, but they aren't in color.
I bought this adventure to see what 4e is all about (I am currently running the Shackled City for my group). Mechanics-wise, some of the new rules look like an improvement, but at the same time it feels much more "video gamish" to me. My biggest disappointment, however, was receiving a package that I felt was so far below the quality standard Paizo has set with their Pathfinder line that it seemed like a rip-off in terms of money spent. Very disappointing, yet not at all surprising.
I'll be keeping my Pathfinder subscription and am really looking forward to the RPG. It's going to be a far better value (both in terms of fun and money) for my group than D&D 4e.
Now we just need the Paizo team to consider partnering with someone to develop software tools for character creation/bookkeeping... ;-)
-Ully
While I disagree with your opinion of 4E itself, I did think the production values slightly less than stellar. Luckily, I bought mine from Amazon for less than $20 so no real problem for me, but I'd have been pretty hesitant to pay out the full $30.
Hopefully this was only for the first module, because of the inclusion of the quick-start rules. If H2 has the same production values I'll be dissapointed.
Cheers! :)
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Whats with the smudging ink? Cheap paper, no backing, cool maps (definite plus), I love the trapper keeper feel, and the story I loved (although it smells like Village of hommlet to me). Overall worth the $20 I paid on the pre-order, not worth $30. Rules seem great and modifiable to keep some of the best things of d20 3.5.
I can only add to what the previous two have said - good content (like 4e so far), cheap quality paper and folder. I like the art, but it seems few and far between. Would have appreciated better art for the pregen. characters and they should have had at least one of them be a female. Loved the foldout maps.
It's worth $20, not $30.
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WotC should have made this module a free pdf from their site. If it was free, more people would give it a try. Since they planned to charge for it, the quality should have been better. Even AD&D modules of old were printed on heavier paper and included a cover.
My 25-30 year old AD&D modules are still playable. I am not sure these booklets will make it through 2 sessions...
I forgot to mention that I DO really enjoy the maps that were provided. This is an idea I'd be willing to pay extra for. My artistic skills are ... less than stellar, so drawing out a scene on a battle mat always leaves a little to be desired. My group has discussed scanning and editing some of the maps from the modules we run, then getting them blown up big enough to play on. Very cool.
Cheers! :)
My group has discussed scanning and editing some of the maps from the modules we run, then getting them blown up big enough to play on. Very cool.
I've done this, but it's surprising how big some of those dungeons are. It usually takes me a lot of time to put a dungeon together, but it's very nice to have.
My group has discussed scanning and editing some of the maps from the modules we run, then getting them blown up big enough to play on. Very cool.I've done this, but it's surprising how big some of those dungeons are. It usually takes me a lot of time to put a dungeon together, but it's very nice to have.
Seriously, I know what you mean. The only thing that has prevented us from doing so so far is the expense involved. We estimated it at about $50 to really get everything produced, which is too much to spend just for maps (unless we could get the group to chip in together, which is what our plan was supposed to be ...)
Cheers! :)
I live in a cramped condo here in Vancouver, so I don't usually have a big table available to use a battle mat. Instead I use Fantasy Grounds 2 and everybody brings over a laptop. Note so sure if we'll see a FG2 rules set for 4e or not, but here's hoping!
Anyways, the software saves a lot of paper.
My plan for 4e is to run the Pathfinder modules with the 4e core rules. That way I get the best of both worlds! yay!
Have you looked into WotC's virtual tabletop that will be part of the DDI? I've never really used a virtual tabletop so it's difficult for me to really compare it with other existing ones.
Cheers! :)
I may have been a little harsh in my original post. I was just a bit shocked at how cheap Keep on the Shadowfell feels compared to the Pathfinder books.
Now that I've had a chance to read through some of the adventure booklet, I really like the way the encounters are presented. While I haven't run it yet, the organization of the encounters looks to be easy on the DM.
Regarding electronic maps, I am currently running the Shackled City for my regular group, and I use scans of the maps in MapTool, a really nice (and free) virtual tabletop Java application (so it works on Macs, Windows PCs, Linux, etc.). We use anywhere from one laptop per side of the table to one per person, and it has completely replaced our use of maps and minis. That said, I'll definitely be pulling out the minis for Keep on the Shadowfell.
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The format I agree is great and the emphasis on role-playing is there, but with enough hack n slash to make the game fun and delve the characters into this realm. The feel of TPK is definately there. I wonder if they used super-players to test drive it. Normal players young and old will have a hard time staying alive the way this is formatted. Also do not like that the module assumes you have 5 players or you have to modify. Most gaming session consist of either 2-3 players and a DM. I had to pick one of the characters which only made trying out a new rule system harder
I bought it today and flipped through it. Very sparse interior illustrations besides the maps; a couple of locations, maybe one monster/NPC and that's it. I need to read through the rules and things in greater depth, but I feel like it was about $15 too expensive from my first look.