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Hi all,
Advice please!
Our group is going to be starting STAP in a short while and people are currently thinking of characters to create.
Currently we have a druid, a wizard, a cleric, a monk and a swashbuckler.
I am a big advocate of the balanced party so not to make the DMs job any harder and have the following questions:
Can you do STAP without a rogue??
Do we need a tank??
Or is Ranger a better choice??
Thanks
Hi all,
Advice please!
Our group is going to be starting STAP in a short while and people are currently thinking of characters to create.
Currently we have a druid, a wizard, a cleric, a monk and a swashbuckler.
I am a big advocate of the balanced party so not to make the DMs job any harder and have the following questions:
Can you do STAP without a rogue??
Do we need a tank??
Or is Ranger a better choice??
Thanks
I think you can get by without a rogue. Overall the two things you really need in STAP are a good tank and a dedicated arcane caster. I could see that party becoming dogfood in the first T-Rex fight or the fight with Olongru.
Hi all,
Advice please!
Our group is going to be starting STAP in a short while and people are currently thinking of characters to create.
Currently we have a druid, a wizard, a cleric, a monk and a swashbuckler.
I am a big advocate of the balanced party so not to make the DMs job any harder and have the following questions:
Can you do STAP without a rogue??
Do we need a tank??
Or is Ranger a better choice??
Thanks
The two divine spellcasting choices (cleric - as a dedicated healer - and druid for mixed screening summonings and fire support with the arcane caster) are excellent for the STAP. The Wizard will require significant support from the party early on (before leaving Sasserine) as well as from your GM (in terms of available spells later on). The STAP is not at all kind in awarding spellbooks until about 15th level.
The monk and swashbuckler will have to buddy-team in order to protect the other three characters. Their mobility will come in handy throughout the AP. If possible, they would be advised to select 'buddy' feats (Vexing Flanker, as a starting point) and - if the house rules permit - the related teamwork benefits (PHB 2).
I would recommend the wizard either go to beguiler or sorceror - or go arcane trickster and function as the trapfinder. While traps are not a dominant theme, there are enough of them to warrant one character with the trapfinder class feature.
Flexibility and adaptability are going to be a key to survival in the Savage Tide. The monk worries me in some ways - due to Lawful alignment if nothing else...
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turin's right on the money.
things you WILL need:
dedicated arcane caster. no dropped spell levels, possibly an item crafter.
dedicated healer. doesn't HAVE to be the cleric, but you will be getting nailed w/ some hefty damage from time to time, and unless you have someone willing to patch up the party, you will fall.
decent wilderness / survival stuff. not necessarily as important, but will make your life not suck
good sailors. sure, you don't need to be maxed out prof (sailor) with a +6 wis like the cleric in my game (also has Admiral's Bicorne and regularly prepares a Divine Insight just for these occasions), but a significant chunk of the AP is waterborne. do the math.
as far as tanking...Barbarians or Paladins make for good meatshield types (unless you want to get really silly with warblade or crusader BS), heavy armor may not be too advisable until later in the game, unless you make some decisions to counteract the "i drown in water while wearing my fullplate" issues.
enjoy!
-the hamster
...Currently we have a druid, a wizard, a cleric, a monk and a swashbuckler.
...
Can you do STAP without a rogue??
Do we need a tank??
Or is Ranger a better choice??Thanks
Currently we have a druid, swashbuckler, scout and rog/sorc (cleric&monk moved on). Without going into spoilers, the changes I (as DM) have had to make have so far been minimal. I will say that you find a lot of damage dealing biggies though so HP are needed, either in cleric or tank form. My scout/rogue/swashbuckler had a hard time getting through those parts of the adventure with immunity to sneak attack, but that added to the drama and the fun. They all survived too :) (guess I am saying you do not NEED the rogue :). I agree with Turin the monk/swashy should be tank enough (not the tank is EVER enough :)
New and replacements always ask me what the party needs and my answer is always the same: play what you want to play I will adjust it. I disagree that you should min the work for the DM. Nothing sucks more than playing a character you are not interested in (that is like reading for homework! :)
Their are some classes which can do double duty though, a bard with 2wpn fighting (& finesse) with cat's grace can be nearly a tank if you add a wand of cure mods. So if the class you want to play will unbalance the party, build the balance with feat/gear choices.
ymmv but play what you want to play!
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I have just realised that I was not completely clear in my post above. I am the sixth player and am deciding what the party needs the most. I was thinking of a ranger/horizon walker, but am a bit concerned about the lack of a rogue and a tank.
After all your lovely helpful emails, it looks as if the lack of a rogue isn't really an issue, however, still wondering if a fighter or knight would be a good thing instead of the horizon walker.
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Wow, there is some great ideas in this.
I am not sure what books the DM is allowing, but if we go by his current campaign, psionics and camapign specific books are out, and no book of 9 swords or alternative magic systems either.
One thing I have noticed (which I find really interesting and is definately not a critisism) is how different the advice is. It really brings home that not all groups of players have the same playing style as ours do, or for that matter as each other.
To a certain extent it is a shame that we can't use the Pathfinder RPG as I have noticed that the Ranger looks like getting trapfinding (going by the blog), one issue resolved. However, some players have already decided on races that are not core (a goblin and a phanaton so far) and the DM doesn't feel confident in designing at least two new races and a new character class (the swashbuckler) for a games system that is still in the bedding down process.
However, that all said, I am starting to lean back towards my original Ranger/Horizon Walker (maybe with a few levels in Rogue, or another trap finding class).
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The ranger will make a great addition to your group, so I have some suggestions that you and your party can do to maximize your effectiveness.
If you are useing the Complete Scoundrel the Swashbuckler could take some levels in Rogue and spend a feat on "Daring Outlaw", this will allow them to stack Abilities from Swb & Rog.
The Ranger/Horizon Walker sound good but if you want Trapfinding, I would go with Scout over Rogue and use the feat "Swift Hunter" to stack my Scout & Ranger levels. There is also a good Prc.class in Dragon Issue #354 that work well with your Ranger.
As for your spellcasters they just need to make sure they don't lose spell levels from Prc.ing.
Well that all i got, And remember to have fun with it or it's useless to play
Cyd
Dead set on Ranger but want trap finding? I believe that's what Varients were made for.
Try and borrow a copy of Dungeonscape and talk to your DM about it.
Your Ranger could give up Track/Swift Track to gain trap finding plus related Skills as class skills. If you want to get Track as well you can always take it as a feat.
Or my personal favourite is a 1 level of Barbarian and take the "Trap Smasher" varient. Just so long as you don't start dipping to 3 other classes other wise you might be seen as "Max/Min"ing
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I had completely missed the alternative class features in Dungeonscape, I had trolled through many of the other books. I will definately be chatting to my DM about this, I can always take Track as a feat (something that cannot be done with Trapfinding).
I have one advantage in that the DM is my husband, so I have more time to work on him. Though once he declares a book a source for his camapign you can basically do what you wish with it (and I am reasonably confident that he is allowing the terrain books as source).
I will see how the rest of the party fare with combat before deciding which PrC to go ( the totem demonslayer definately looks interesting), or even just stay with Ranger the whole way through (though all of the Ranger combat abilities can be replaced with feats).
I am planning on going the two-weapon fighting tree as I have a Ranger/Druid (gesault) with the Archery tree in the AOW campaign we are playing and I like to play different characters in current camapigns otherwise I get confused as to which character is doing what (with 5 current campaigns it is sometimes hard to keep track).
.. are playing and I like to play different characters in current camapigns otherwise I get confused as to which character is doing what (with 5 current campaigns it is sometimes hard to keep track).
I have actually house ruled that you can not play same classes/races on replacement characters, for this same reaon.
2 weapon fighting is a lot of fun too, especially with double weapons that let wpn focus double in (see my bard above :). I am intrigued by the phanaton (have two in my campaign) and can imagine a ranger dropping from the sky with a blade in both hands (and tail!)
Have fund and good luck!
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I am thinking of going Hadrozee as the race, so the gliding from the sky with two weapons in hand is definately on the cards. Finding a figure is going to be ....mmm...interesting, but I will probably just use an ape (there is an pirate ape from Ginfitters that looks appropiate). The Phanaton is the wizard and is my "little buddy". He doesn't know it yet but his nickname is going to be "top cover".
I have a friend who is in three campaigns and plays a male human monk in two, and is planning on doing the same in this one. That would just bore me stupid, I need some variety. She is also easily confused about what is happening in each camapign and the similiarity in her characters isn't helping. Even a diffent figure is a trigger for memory for me. I currently have two clerics, but they couldn't be more different (a cloistered cleric knowledge pool and a Judge Dredd type).
I think this whole thread has definately made my mind up to play the Ranger (hoping to get trapfinding) but if not...play it anyway.
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completly forgot...
like the ranger, want the wilderness survival stuff, but want trapfinding...
go for the Scout.
3/4 bab, no weapon group stuff, but gets precision damage, trapfinding, and ranger-ish skills.
wow, cant believe that slipped my mind (and swift hunter + 2 lvls of rogue is just SICK)
of course, trapfinding ranger with the proper equip and favored enemies will have the same benefits, with a higher bab, better fort saves, and an animal companion (if you're into that...i personally prefer distracting attack, especially if there's another rogue type around)
-cheers
I have one advantage in that the DM is my husband, so I have more time to work on him.
That should make things easier. Show him the couch - insist that this is were he will be sleeping until such time as he sees the light and lets you use your favorite splat book.
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He saw the light staight away (smart man) and said yes. Happy times in our household.
I am actually planning on having a Ranger with no spells and no animal companion. So Distracting Attack is definately on the cards, or the nature spirit thing from PH2. Though, with me missing the Trap-finder from Dungeonscape I might go for another stroll through the splat books to see if there is anything else interesting I missed.
Wit the nature spirit thing in mind, what is the split of city/non-city adventuring in the path??
I did glance through the path when I first got the Dungeons but am not going to go back now that my husband has decided to run it to look up such things.
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ahh...city/non city...
one of my characters has the Child of Shadow feat, and is CONSTANTLY asking: are we in an urban setting?
with that in mind, i'd say, the 1st 2 adventures are mostly city, then 3-5 are wilderness, 6 you're in the "teleport around where i want" frame of mind, then you're all over the place.
so, maybe 4 total adventures out of 12 are city based, and even then you're leaving a little to do other things.
my group likes the "sim-city" aspects of the game, setting up guilds, houses, businesses, and shipping interests all the time, so they spend a bit more time than most "in town"
(not to mention the character with the Child feat is an elocator who delivers the mail across the ocean...weird, i know)
-the hamster
completly forgot...
like the ranger, want the wilderness survival stuff, but want trapfinding...
go for the Scout.
3/4 bab, no weapon group stuff, but gets precision damage, trapfinding, and ranger-ish skills.
wow, cant believe that slipped my mind (and swift hunter + 2 lvls of rogue is just SICK)
of course, trapfinding ranger with the proper equip and favored enemies will have the same benefits, with a higher bab, better fort saves, and an animal companion (if you're into that...i personally prefer distracting attack, especially if there's another rogue type around)
-cheers
scout plus glide is not a bad combo (bonuses when move more than 10 feet), but I would probably choose ranger anyway.
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Either that or the alternative in Unearthed Arcana.....yet to make that decision.
I have always considered the Ranger to be a wildness warrior, so spells and animal companions have never quite sat comfortably with me. I am glad of all the alternate abilities so I can try and build the character I have in my mind.
Not sure on the specifics of the Hadrozee, but you might want to look for miniatures of Yazirian from the Star Frontiers game. If you can find one with no guns (and maybe a sword), it might work well.
Sean Mahoney