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We know that the heads of the five major houses (Arkona, Jeggare, Laroung, Ornelos, and Zenderholm) form the Peerage Review, which is an important part of the Korvosan government. Do we know who these five people are? House Arkona is headed by Lord Glorio, but I can't find the names of any of the other four. Am I missing them, or have they just not been revealed yet?
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We know that the heads of the five major houses (Arkona, Jeggare, Laroung, Ornelos, and Zenderholm) form the Peerage Review, which is an important part of the Korvosan government. Do we know who these five people are? House Arkona is headed by Lord Glorio, but I can't find the names of any of the other four. Am I missing them, or have they just not been revealed yet?
Zenobia Zenderholm gets mentioned, but I don't see her as the head of her House. She's important to the city in other ways.
So, yeah, except for Glorio none of the heads of the Great Houses gets mentioned. Darn it. :(
That's fine. I can write my own aristocrats. :)
Are any of them being mentioned later in the path, or am I good to go without fear of being contradicted?
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Well, the Peerage Review technicaly has Zero power. Erodred was a nice, doddering monarch genuinely interested in caring for his city, even if he wasnt particularly effective or skilled at it. Thats why he listened to them. Ileosa, on the other hand, is rather the opposite in every conceivable fashion. So I can imagine that when the peerage council comes up to the palace to discuss some pressing concerns they have about the recent increase in rowdyness among the working classes, and how this interrupts their buisy social lives and gives them headaches from all the screaming, they're going to be shoved off with a promise to "look into the matter." If they approach her later, when she starts wearing the
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I wouldn't have objected if you had said that their power approaches zero. :) The Peerage Review has a couple of actual areas where they can exercise authority. First, if they unanimously agree then they can contradict a monarch's order to the Korvosan Guard. Second, if they and the seneschal and a randomly selected arbiter all agree then they can evict a monarch from residing in the Castle.
It would take a fairly severe crisis to cause any of this to come about, of course. :D
(This is not to say that I disagree with your prediction of how the queen would react.)
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One thing that makes me wonder - if one of the members of the Peerage Review dies, does their family just get to appoint a replacement, or is there some sort of recognition required, and for a time period they are a Peer short. Or, this could also arise if:
In which case, would the four remaining Peers be able to access their powers as a group, or would they be in limbo without their complete number?
Good point! And who decides which house is a Great House? Membership in that group has changed, so clearly there must be precedent.
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Well, I'd say that a house qualifies as "great" when they can claim to be great and no one laughs at them. On the books, the Peerage Council is probably "a council of upstanding citizens of noble blood selected by the current council, with the initial council appointed by the king." Getting in is a matter of the other families letting you in. And you can only get them to let you in by being powerful enough to put pressure on them.
I dont like congenitally rich people. Too much British literature.
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Are any of them being mentioned later in the path, or am I good to go without fear of being contradicted?
*shrug*
I don't think any of them get mentioned later, but we'll need to wait for James to pop in to answer for sure.
Erodred was a nice, doddering monarch genuinely interested in caring for his city, even if he wasnt particularly effective or skilled at it.
I and many of my fellow Korvosans take issue with the idea of Eodred being "nice." He was certainly no Ileosa, but he was an unapologetic pederast. And yeah, he owned some slaves as well, which is technically against the law here.
One thing that makes me wonder - if one of the members of the Peerage Review dies, does their family just get to appoint a replacement, or is there some sort of recognition required, and for a time period they are a Peer short. Or, this could also arise if:
** spoiler omitted **
In which case, would the four remaining Peers be able to access their powers as a group, or would they be in limbo without their complete number?
The Peerage Review (PR) is composed of the heads of the Great Houses. When a Great House head dies, his (or her!) heir immediately becomes the newest member of the PR. If a Great House's head has or assigns no heir before he dies, there's some time of turmoil in the House and the PR until the House gets itself in order. A Great House without an heir for too long risks losing its Great House status and thus its place on the PR.
And who decides which house is a Great House?
The GM. ;)
Unfortunately, I had about twice as much written about the Great Houses as saw print. One of the parts that got cut dealt with becoming a Great House (I don't know if the book says this still, but Zenderholm is the newest Great House and the first one that isn't also a Dock Family. It replaced House Fordyce as the fifth Great Family.). It basically has to do with wealth, power, prestige, and influence. As you might imagine, the various Houses in Korvosa keep track of each other's doings. If a Great House suddenly loses a lot of wealth, or power, or prestige, or influence, the other Houses in the city take note. If it loses enough, another family can try to move up the ladder and replace it on the PR.
Well, I'd say that a house qualifies as "great" when they can claim to be great and no one laughs at them.
Yeah, that's a nice succinct way of putting it. :)
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Unfortunately, I had about twice as much written about the Great Houses as saw print. One of the parts that got cut dealt with becoming a Great House (I don't know if the book says this still, but Zenderholm is the newest Great House and the first one that isn't also a Dock Family. It replaced House Fordyce as the fifth Great Family.)
That part's still in there.
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Erodred was a nice, doddering monarch genuinely interested in caring for his city, even if he wasnt particularly effective or skilled at it.I and many of my fellow Korvosans take issue with the idea of Eodred being "nice." He was certainly no Ileosa, but he was an unapologetic pederast. And yeah, he owned some slaves as well, which is technically against the law here.
As kings go, that's still pretty good. But, I forgot about the pederasty part. The more I find out about Ileosa as the AP continues, the better Erodred looks.
Mike, thank-you for all the great information. This is really helpful!
I don't know if the book says this still, but Zenderholm is the newest Great House and the first one that isn't also a Dock Family. It replaced House Fordyce as the fifth Great Family.
That's there, but we don't know who House Fordyce replaced. Care to spill?
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Mike, thank-you for all the great information. This is really helpful!
I am always willing to talk about Korvosa, so thank you. ^_^
I don't know if the book says this still, but Zenderholm is the newest Great House and the first one that isn't also a Dock Family. It replaced House Fordyce as the fifth Great Family.That's there, but we don't know who House Fordyce replaced. Care to spill?
That's a good question. My thinking is that at some point Fordyce probably was a higher rank among the Great Houses, but it slowly kept slipping down. It's my thought that only House Jeggare has been a Great House since that designation began. Maybe also House Ornelos, because the system actually sounds like something the Volshyenek would have cooked up. ;)
Anyway, I imagine that at one time House Fordyce was like #2 or #3 among the Great Houses, but with the steady rise of House Arkona and House Ornelos, it started to slip.
As for who House Fordyce replaced to get into the Great Houses? I would guess that after the Cousins' War there was a bloodbath (literally and figuratively) among the Great Houses. House Fordyce probably snuck in at that time, likely replacing House Viamio or one of its allies. And at the time, House Fordyce was probably just riding a wave of gratitude for its support in the war, but it probably didn't actually earn its way in, and over time it kinda got shook out because—really—it doesn't belong up there. House Fordyce is probably a mid-level House in terms of power in the city, but for a while that and a little luck allowed it to play among the big boys.
Does any of that make sense? And also, if I'm rambling, please tell me to stop, as I could probably do this all day. ;D
I am always willing to talk about Korvosa, so thank you. ^_^
I really need to buy you a beer and pick your brains about my CotCT campaign. Any chance you'll be taking the ferry over to Victoria any time soon?
My thinking is that at some point Fordyce probably was a higher rank among the Great Houses, but it slowly kept slipping down. It's my thought that only House Jeggare has been a Great House since that designation began. Maybe also House Ornelos, because the system actually sounds like something the Volshyenek would have cooked up. ;)
I like that. I hadn't really thought of the Great Houses having ranks within the group, but it makes sense that they do. My guess at the current line-up (from top to bottom): Jeggare, Arkona, Ornelos, Leroung, Zenderholm. Does that sound right?
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I really need to buy you a beer and pick your brains about my CotCT campaign. Any chance you'll be taking the ferry over to Victoria any time soon?
Alas, no, probably not this year.
I like that. I hadn't really thought of the Great Houses having ranks within the group, but it makes sense that they do. My guess at the current line-up (from top to bottom): Jeggare, Arkona, Ornelos, Leroung, Zenderholm. Does that sound right?
Yes, that's probably exactly how I'd rank them. And to give you a sense of how the houses interact with one another and the government, I figure each House's overall alignment goes like this:
1. Jeggare: LG
2. Arkona: LE
3. Ornelos: LE
4. Leroung: LN/LG
5. Zenderholm: LN
House Arkona is headed by Lord Glorio, but I can't find the names of any of the other four.
My bad! Lady Eliasia Leroung is both the headmistress of the university as well as the head of her house.
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I would say that each "Great House" represents a political faction in the city. In this case, politics is not so much defined as ideology, but in providing patronage and support for its members - who gets to be customs inspector at Eel's End, recommend candidates to Sable Company, which guild members get the government contract, or even - heaven forbid - if a family member can become a member of the Gray Maidens. Of course, the LG houses would be "reformers" committed to good government and an end to corruption. Of course, that probably suits their interests anyway.
As such, each Great House has alliances with minor houses who expect that Great House to protect their interests and advance their goals in return for their own support, money, and influence on the streets. If so, you may want to create a patchwork map of the city explaining which House (great or minor) "controls" what part of the city.
You may want to create 3-5 minor houses for each Great House as flavor to the campaign. When the Arkona family falls, one of those might be the natural successor to the Arkonas. Or perhaps a minor house supporting another Great House might decide now is the time to get out from being underneath the thumb of Zenderholm or what have you, and make a bid for the old Arkona place. All sorts of political intrigue and chaos if that's what you want.
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AS far as house Arkona, don't forget they have human families who could pick up for the house after Glorio falls.
Are there any titles for the great houses? Dukes, Marquis, Earls? I know the Korvosan monarch doesn't have or grant titles, but these houses have titles from Cheliax, don't they?
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AS far as house Arkona, don't forget they have human families who could pick up for the house after Glorio falls.
Are there any titles for the great houses? Dukes, Marquis, Earls? I know the Korvosan monarch doesn't have or grant titles, but these houses have titles from Cheliax, don't they?
All Chelish titles remain in the hands of (distant) relatives in Cheliax, such as the famous count Varian Jeggare. Thus the Korvosan nobles bear no titles, other than 'lord'.
As far as the Arkona's go, they are probably the only noble house that doesn't have a lot of members to draw from. In the AP as written, the Korvosa Arkona's have been replaced by you-know-what, and according to resources, they don't have family in Cheliax left.
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AS far as house Arkona, don't forget they have human families who could pick up for the house after Glorio falls.
Are there any titles for the great houses? Dukes, Marquis, Earls? I know the Korvosan monarch doesn't have or grant titles, but these houses have titles from Cheliax, don't they?
All Chelish titles remain in the hands of (distant) relatives in Cheliax, such as the famous count Varian Jeggare. Thus the Korvosan nobles bear no titles, other than 'lord'.
As far as the Arkona's go, they are probably the only noble house that doesn't have a lot of members to draw from. In the AP as written, the Korvosa Arkona's have been replaced by you-know-what, and according to resources, they don't have family in Cheliax left.
Ah, I missed the part the said they don't have titles. I thought the Guide to Korvosa suggested they held titles from Cheliax that they brought with them.
And page 59 in the Secrets section of the guide said that the Arkona's do have more family in Korvosa. I'll have to read into Escape to find out how that goes, however.