Some information for Eberron fans, posted by Keith Baker on his blog. Fortunately, it seems that the scenario won't suffer major changes (although 2009 is a looong way to go).
Two questions would be of any Eberron fan interest:
Will time have passed, and so the geography/politics be updated?After much discussion, the decision was made not to advance the timeline for Eberron. Geography will remain intact. However, as I said, I'd like to see use explore a few of the broader issues of the setting from the begining this time around. The original 3.5 ECS really didn't give you that much of a sense of the impact of the Last War, for example.
While much of this could be seen as simply drawing in elements of other books - Five Nations, Forge of War - it's also my hope to explore aspects of the setting that have been mentioned but never explored in great detail. And there's going to be a few new surprises. Nothing that contradicts what's gone before - interesting things that could have always been there, and simply gone unnoticed, or new threats that are just arising as of 998 YK.
Out of curiosity, how are you all dealing with the changes that will have to happen in the fiction to reflect 4e (Zilargo, particularly)?
Well, you may be jumping to conclusion. There's no plans to make any vast changes to Zilargo. You may be basing this on the fact that gnomes aren't in the 4E PHB - but they're available as a playable race in the 4E MM, and if necessary we'll provide additional information for the Zil. So Zilargo and the Trust will continue to be gnomes, and I won't have to suddenly say "Oh, Alina was actually an elf all along." With that said, I've got some ideas to help make Zilargo a more interesting and compelling place for PCs to visit - but nonething that invalidates what's gone before.
I can't honestly remember the source I'm citing on this so take it with as much or little salt as you'd like . . . but I think I heard for the dragonborn, they'll be one of the "native" races of Argonessen
I can't honestly remember the source I'm citing on this so take it with as much or little salt as you'd like . . . but I think I heard for the dragonborn, they'll be one of the "native" races of Argonessen
Yeah, I heard that too. Keith said something like "Half-dragons would considered abominations by dragons, like what we would think of a cross between a man and a dog", and "In other hand, dragons will see dragonborn as we would see cute dogs who speak and walk like us."
So, dragonborn are probably a "natural" race, not result of a magical experiment.
That good thing is that putting dragonborn on Argonessen is straightforward. I antecipated myself and already put them on by EbCS campaign. Now tieflings and eladrin are more complicated.
Wonder if the tierflings will be from the Age of Demons.
Keith didn't know if tieflings were going to be descended from demons, or linked to other planes like Shavarath or Fernia. Or perhaps none of them.
As for Eladrin... it seems we have zero info about them until now. I'd rather prefer that they change a bit the background of elves to fit them. Instead of making elves coming from Xendrik, migrating to Aerenal, and later to Khorvaire, it would be better if the elves migrated directly from Xendrik to Khorvaire, while the eladrin lived originally in Thelanis and migrated to Aerenal. Now, what will happen to the Mark of Shadows, I don't know.
This has literally become the point upon which my adoption of 4/e hinges.
If WotC adapts the rules to fit each setting (Greyhawk for me), I'm buying. If they adapt settings to fit the rules (such as shoehorning in races)... well, I have plenty of 3.5 books.
This has literally become the point upon which my adoption of 4/e hinges.
If WotC adapts the rules to fit each setting (Greyhawk for me), I'm buying. If they adapt settings to fit the rules (such as shoehorning in races)... well, I have plenty of 3.5 books.
So does that mean you're waiting for them to do Greyhawk to try 4E? Or are you coming aboard for a taste until then? ;)
Cheers! :)
PS: Not being familiar with Eberron, how do Elves "work" there currently? Is there your Wood/Grey Elf split ala other settings?
PS: Not being familiar with Eberron, how do Elves "work" there currently? Is there your Wood/Grey Elf split ala other settings?
Frankly I don't think elves are much of a problem (whether they're called "High Elves" or "Eladrin" or "Vulcans") for Eberron. The greater concern (IMO) is that gnomes, half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, warforged, and other 3.5 Eberron PC races will get the short end of the stick (for the short term, anyways).
This has literally become the point upon which my adoption of 4/e hinges.
If WotC adapts the rules to fit each setting (Greyhawk for me), I'm buying. If they adapt settings to fit the rules (such as shoehorning in races)... well, I have plenty of 3.5 books.
So does that mean you're waiting for them to do Greyhawk to try 4E? Or are you coming aboard for a taste until then? ;)
Cheers! :)
PS: Not being familiar with Eberron, how do Elves "work" there currently? Is there your Wood/Grey Elf split ala other settings?
Kind of, but its not so simple and its more of a cultural thing. In 3.5e, there are four basic types of elves: Khoravar, Aerenal, Valenar, and the Drow. All the elves were originally slaves serving the giant empires of Xen'drik. They then rebelled and left for a mini-continent called Aerenal (all except for the drow, who remained in Xen'drik). Most elves in the setting are from Aerenal. The Khoravar are elves (mostly from the dragonmarked houses) that migrated to the main continent of Khorvaire and have integrated into that society. The Valenar are basically another culture of elves on Aerenal that migrated to Khorvaire during the Last War to fight as mercenaries (they ended up taking over a part of the nation of Cyre that their ancestors had once attempted to colonize).
Except for the drow, there are no major elven sub-races in Eberron; everything is a cultural distinction. My guess is that the Aerenal and Khoravar will made eladrins, while the Valenar would be elves.
I can't honestly remember the source I'm citing on this so take it with as much or little salt as you'd like . . . but I think I heard for the dragonborn, they'll be one of the "native" races of Argonessen
I believe that the 3.5e dragonborn were integrated into the setting in the Dragons of Eberron sourcebook, but I'm not a 100% sure since that is one of the few Eberron books that I do not own. In any case, the dragonborn would be an easy fit given the existence of Argonessen.
PS: Not being familiar with Eberron, how do Elves "work" there currently? Is there your Wood/Grey Elf split ala other settings?Frankly I don't think elves are much of a problem (whether they're called "High Elves" or "Eladrin" or "Vulcans") for Eberron. The greater concern (IMO) is that gnomes, half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, warforged, and other 3.5 Eberron PC races will get the short end of the stick (for the short term, anyways).
What do you mean? We know that gnomes, goblins, hobgoblins, and warforged are all in the MM, and that there are playable PC versions in that book. Do you mean that there will be less racial feats out of the box? That much is true, though I think that will be quickly rectified by the DDI, even before the release of the ECS in 2009.
What do you mean? We know that gnomes, goblins, hobgoblins, and warforged are all in the MM, and that there are playable PC versions in that book. Do you mean that there will be less racial feats out of the box? That much is true, though I think that will be quickly rectified by the DDI, even before the release of the ECS in 2009.
That's exactly what I meant; there'll be something right away, but for racial feats, et al. you'll have to wait (in the short term).
To be clear, I don't think it's a big deal.
Frankly I don't think elves are much of a problem (whether they're called "High Elves" or "Eladrin" or "Vulcans") for Eberron. The greater concern (IMO) is that gnomes, half-orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, warforged, and other 3.5 Eberron PC races will get the short
end of the stick (for the short term, anyways).
On my humble opinion, I would replace half-orcs with orcs as the bearers of the Mark of Finding. It seems obvious to me that the only reason that half-orcs received such an attention of 3.5 EbCS was the fact that they were a PC race. This change is straightforward as there are no cultural differences between Shadow Marshes orcs and half-orcs.
Kind of, but its not so simple and its more of a cultural thing. In 3.5e, there are four basic types of elves: Khoravar, Aerenal, Valenar, and the Drow. All the elves were originally slaves serving the giant empires of Xen'drik. They then rebelled and left for a mini-continent called Aerenal (all except for the drow, who remained in Xen'drik). Most elves in the setting are from Aerenal. The Khoravar are elves (mostly from the dragonmarked houses) that migrated to the main continent of Khorvaire and have integrated into that society. The Valenar are basically another culture of elves on Aerenal that migrated to Khorvaire during the Last War to fight as mercenaries (they ended up taking over a part of the nation of Cyre that their ancestors had once attempted to colonize).
Except for the drow, there are no major elven sub-races in Eberron; everything is a cultural distinction. My guess is that the Aerenal and Khoravar will made eladrins, while the Valenar would be elves.
Minor correction: the Khoravar are half-elves, not elves. The Khorvaire urban elves are simply called Khorvaire elves or urban elves.
There are also the Tairnadal elves, who are the ancestors of Valenar who still live in Aerenal.
I guess making Aereni=eladrin and Valenar=elves is fine, as long as they don't make the Valenar still coming from Aerenal. A few decades of segregation is not enough to make two distinct races.
If aereni=eladrin, however, it would fit Eberron nicely if they make eladrin come from Dolluhr (Eberron "Shadowfell") instead of Thelanis (Eberron "Feywild"). Perhaps the Aereni are a fugitive race from Dolluhr, and that's the reason they seek immortality.
Are Elves still a highly magical race? Perhaps in their case, segregation IS enough to create two entirely distinct subraces ...
Maybe it has something to do with where they grow up?
Just throwing out ideas.
Cheers! :)
Minor correction: the Khoravar are half-elves, not elves. The Khorvaire urban elves are simply called Khorvaire elves or urban elves.There are also the Tairnadal elves, who are the ancestors of Valenar who still live in Aerenal.
I guess making Aereni=eladrin and Valenar=elves is fine, as long as they don't make the Valenar still coming from Aerenal. A few decades of segregation is not enough to make two distinct races.
If aereni=eladrin, however, it would fit Eberron nicely if they make eladrin come from Dolluhr (Eberron "Shadowfell") instead of Thelanis (Eberron "Feywild"). Perhaps the Aereni are a fugitive race from Dolluhr, and that's the reason they seek immortality.
Dang, I was wondering if I was confusing the half-elves and urban elves together. I lumped the Valenar and Tairnadal together, since the are not culturally distinct, and since the Tairnadal and Aereni are both quite ancient, I can easily see how the elves and eladrin, cousins as they are, could be translated into an Eberron context.
While your planar idea is interesting, I don't think that they are going to go down that route since it would involve major changes to the setting and I got the impression from Keith Baker that they weren't going to do that.
Are Elves still a highly magical race? Perhaps in their case, segregation IS enough to create two entirely distinct subraces ...
Maybe it has something to do with where they grow up?
Just throwing out ideas.
Cheers! :)
Yes, in Eberron, the elves are still a highly magical race; the main differences are cultural. For example, the Valenar/Tairnadal elves are a fearsome, semi-nomadic warrior culture.
This is a bit of a threadjack... But I figured you guys would know this.
I am interested in Eberron, but I have nothing in terms of 3.5 books for the setting. I am getting 4E core books.
When they convert the setting, has the news you've been hearing suggested that a person unfamiliar with the setting (a newbie) will be able to get into it with just the 4th Edition books that are coming out?
That is, would I be able to start clean?
And what about FR for that matter? (This is mostly curiousity, but if you happen to know, I'll be obliged.)
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When they convert the setting, has the news you've been hearing suggested that a person unfamiliar with the setting (a newbie) will be able to get into it with just the 4th Edition books that are coming out?That is, would I be able to start clean?
2009 and yes.
And what about FR for that matter? (This is mostly curiousity, but if you happen to know, I'll be obliged.)
Sourcebooks later this year. And yes, you should be able to start clean.
I thought the Eberron Drow dug scorpions instead of spiders (which I, being more afraid of scorpions than spiders, find kinda creepy)?
Cheers! :)
If WotC adapts the rules to fit each setting (Greyhawk for me), I'm buying. If they adapt settings to fit the rules (such as shoehorning in races)... well, I have plenty of 3.5 books.
So does that mean you're waiting for them to do Greyhawk to try 4E? Or are you coming aboard for a taste until then? ;)
I'm waiting.
My group and I are are irrational, foaming-at-the-mouth Greyhawk fans, with little or no interest in other settings (which probably explains a lot of my problems with 4/e -- the new default world).
Were I an FR fan, they would have lost me already. I like what I've seen of the new rules, but I also like 3.5, and I'm not interested in the default 4/e world with Greyhawk labels stuck on.
And the same would apply if I were an Eberron fan -- that's my lame attempt to keep my posts on-topic ;)
If WotC adapts the rules to fit each setting (Greyhawk for me), I'm buying. If they adapt settings to fit the rules (such as shoehorning in races)... well, I have plenty of 3.5 books.So does that mean you're waiting for them to do Greyhawk to try 4E? Or are you coming aboard for a taste until then? ;)I'm waiting.
My group and I are are irrational, foaming-at-the-mouth Greyhawk fans, with little or no interest in other settings (which probably explains a lot of my problems with 4/e -- the new default world).
Were I an FR fan, they would have lost me already. I like what I've seen of the new rules, but I also like 3.5, and I'm not interested in the default 4/e world with Greyhawk labels stuck on.
And the same would apply if I were an Eberron fan -- that's my lame attempt to keep my posts on-topic ;)
Just a question. How much change could you accept? I mean, somethings will undoubtedly have to change during the transition (I could see integrating 4e tieflings via the Great Kingdom, for example).
Am the only one thinking (and hoping) that the elfs are left as elves, and that the eladrin already in the setting (like that NPC in the city of sharn sourcebook who writes the plays in emo fashionista territory) are made into i dun know the eladrin.
Then what about the dragonborn and teiflings, oh wait demon wastes/shavarth/manifestzone conceptions and argonoth. Never really like the human barbarian fluff there anyway, now can open can of whoop ass with dragonborn barbarians on the coast.
At the absolute worst I think they could do is just say "XENDRICK!" and leave it at that. Its the answer to everything anarchonistic to eberron in eberron. Where did all these underground dwelling, spider worshipping matricarchical drow come from? Oh yeah Far Far Away... In Xendrick.
I really hope they don't seperate the aernal and the valenar, but considering baker's opinion on subracing I think i'm going to be okay
I think the elf/eladrin split for 4E Eberron is nice because there are too many elven subcultures on current 3.5 EbCs. Subcultures are cool, but a bit unfair because there aren't so many dwarf / gnome / halfling / orc / goblin / shifter / changeling / warforged subcultures as well. Well, there are lots of orc subcultures, but they are more similar to each other than the elven subcultures.
I hate tieflings, but Demon Wastes doesn't seem to be a bad place to put them (in fact, it's a good place if you want a excuse to never put tieflings on your game. Just say that all tieflings are killed by Silver Flame orcs when they try to leave the Demon Wastes =D).
Just a question. How much change could you accept? I mean, somethings will undoubtedly have to change during the transition (I could see integrating 4e tieflings via the Great Kingdom, for example).
That is a good question Tatterdemalion, how much change is too much change?
I fully agree with you that changes on the level of what's happened with the Realms will ruin the Greyhawk setting. I also don't feel that the setting needs that kind of shakeup to be viable in the new edition. (I feel the changes to the Realms themselves were nessisary. Too many offical products have been written, too much map filled out. There are no more areas in which "Here there be dragons" can be written.)
So, what point on a scale of zero to Spellplague would be acceptable?
Obviously, the major players would need to mostly remain as they are. Folks like Rory and Mordikenian should stay the way they were.
But would the appearance of teiflings be acceptable on a low level scale? Something along the lines of new half breeds appearing from all the demonic influences that have affected the lands of Greyhawk over the years? Would small tribes of dragonborn appearing, perhaps as altered servants of existing dragons be alright? Nothing major, nothing big on the political scenes, but just fringe races allowing people to play them?
I'm pretty sure that the cosmology would have to remain based upon the Great Wheel and Alignment woudl become more important thenit is in Core, but would the changes to the generic Angels be acceptable?
The previous good outsiders would be reintroduced, they're too important to the great wheel to leave them out, but would the addition of things like the non-alignment based angels and the new elementals that are certain to be added in the MM added be acceptable?
Could the succubus be both a devil and a demon, depending upon the individual succubus? (Something I always thought would make sense really.)