Dumb Question about W2


Adventures


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is probably going to seem like a REALLY stupid question but....

In W2 - River into Darkness, the payrate is 20gp each day. When exactly do these "paid days" start? At the beginning of the journey upriver or upon reaching Nightfall Station?

Since the PCs are trying to get hired on as mercenaries, I would think the pay doesn't start until they reach Nightfall Station and they are actually hired. Protecting the River Queen is the price they pay for the captain giving them a ride upriver to the station and their prospective jobs.

Yet... the riverboat captain pays them a certain amount of their mercenary wage in advance.

I'm confused.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I got an answer if a different thread. Thanks anyways.

Grand Lodge

You know when I saw the title of the Thread I thought, the OP is going to ask if this mod is another "Keep on the Borderlands" adventure.

-W. E. Ray

Liberty's Edge

Other dumb questions about W2 :

I am DMing "River into darkness" as an aside adventure in our "Savage tide" campaign (between 2nd (BG) and 3rd adventures (SWW)).

The 4 PCs are 5th level already for a 4th level adventure (but no wizard).

So I gave here or there more HP, and/or +1 AC, and/or +1 to hit/dmg by improving strength (depending on the lvl/HD of the monster/character), and so on.

It seems to me that a lot of the encounters are VERY HIGH level compared to even a 5th level group : I almost killed the tank (5th lvl human duskblade) in the very first round of the 1st combat, the one with the dragonnel (from 41 to 2 HP in the 1st round) and damaged badly the rogue (about 20-25 damage) in the 2nd round.

When I read the encounters with the kech, the girallon +elves, the flotsam + will o' wisp, it seems to me that there are almost only CR 6 to 8-9 encounters in the 1st part of the adventure.

Don't you think that the encounters are too deadly for Lvl 4-5 groups of PCs ?

Sczarni

silenttimo wrote:


Don't you think that the encounters are too deadly for Lvl 4-5 groups of PCs ?

The simple answer? it depends on both the PCs and the players of the PCs. PCs running this as a one-shot have gear more geared to fighting in the terrain than ones running it as part of an adventure path.

Liberty's Edge

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
it depends on both the PCs and the players of the PCs. PCs running this as a one-shot have gear more geared to fighting in the terrain than ones running it as part of an adventure path.

Well,

since we're playing "Savage tide" (in the Forgotten realms, Tashluta), we are already geared toward "aquatic" adventures, one of the PCs is used to be in warm and humid environment, and (besides the fact there is no real wizard/sorcerer), we have a good team :

- human duskblade lvl 5 (2-H sword with power attack and arcane channeling can be very powerful),
- human rogue lvl 5 (fighting with chains, he has a reach and better chances to stay away from trouble),
- human cleric lvl 5 (water god Istishia, so he knows how to swim and has a swim speed),
and the oddest PC (mine : I happen to be the DM for this only adventure) :
- aasimar cloistered cleric 1 of Tyr (war/knowledge +good devotion) /marshall 2 /paladin 2
[with my auras, I give +5 ref saves and +1 AC to my buddies, and as an immediate action, I give aligned [good] weapons + DR 2/evil].

It is a good fighting group, good on healing, but we had a harsh fight against the dragonnel, and some terrible things are ahead...

So, I was wondering if the encounters are not too difficult for a group of lvl 4 PCs, since at lvl 5, we have problems... ?

Frog God Games

silenttimo wrote:

Other dumb questions about W2 :

I am DMing "River into darkness" as an aside adventure in our "Savage tide" campaign (between 2nd (BG) and 3rd adventures (SWW)).

The 4 PCs are 5th level already for a 4th level adventure (but no wizard).

So I gave here or there more HP, and/or +1 AC, and/or +1 to hit/dmg by improving strength (depending on the lvl/HD of the monster/character), and so on.

It seems to me that a lot of the encounters are VERY HIGH level compared to even a 5th level group : I almost killed the tank (5th lvl human duskblade) in the very first round of the 1st combat, the one with the dragonnel (from 41 to 2 HP in the 1st round) and damaged badly the rogue (about 20-25 damage) in the 2nd round.

When I read the encounters with the kech, the girallon +elves, the flotsam + will o' wisp, it seems to me that there are almost only CR 6 to 8-9 encounters in the 1st part of the adventure.

Don't you think that the encounters are too deadly for Lvl 4-5 groups of PCs ?

The encounters are indeed tough. They are all within the DMG ascribed challenge levels, but I usually write for a tougher encounter than an easier one as I personally find it easier to tone down to party ability than up. However, it is also because these initial encounters are both largely spaced out giving plenty of time to rest and recover, and for many of them the PCs have additional help in the form of the River Queen crew. Certainly tailor them to your specific group, though. They should be challeneging (and even a bit deadly) but not overwhelming. Losing a PC early could significantly alter the outcome with little opportunity to bring in reinforcements along the way.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The crew of the River Queen definitely makes a big difference in the encounters on the river in our game. My players are complete newcomers to D&D, so they really don't know how to prepare ahead for the encounters on the river. However, with the NPCs helping out in flanking, damaging and just drawing enemy attention, the gargoyles, kech, and elves were all pretty even fights for the group - not many close calls on the good guys' side. Further evidence for this was the encounter in the swamp, where the crew stayed behind and the PCs investigated all by themselves. The will o' wisp turned out to be nigh invulnerable to my players' attacks so two rounds in I had to spontaneously drop its AC a bit to give my mates a fighting chance.

Liberty's Edge

Minsk wrote:
The crew of the River Queen definitely makes a big difference in the encounters on the river in our game. The will o' wisp turned out to be nigh invulnerable to my players' attacks so two rounds in I had to spontaneously drop its AC a bit to give my mates a fighting chance.

I can see your point of view.

However, I do not see Esteban or Hurg going out of the boat, Farukh dies during the course of the adventure, and the other three are not very efficient.

I also see the fell flotsam + will o' wisp as a very hard fight, as well as the fight at Whitebridge if I fully play the elven tactics as described.

I know there is plenty of time to replenish and recover, but gosh, how hard are those encounters (level +4 or +5 above a 4th level party).

And when I look at pirhanas swarms, I cross my fingers that they have don't swim while several swarms approach : they are as nearly invulnerable as the will o' wisp (except for fire or acid, but since they are in the water...).


I'm going to be running this unmodified with seven PCs of 4th level, so we'll see how that goes. There will be three of the iconics: the paladin, the barbarian, and the monk; the uniques will be a druid, a bard, and a rogue; not sure what the last one will run.

I will say that the dragonnel bears little resemblance to the Tome of Horrors Revised that I own. I'm guessing that they were using the unrevised?

Frog God Games

roguerouge wrote:
I will say that the dragonnel bears little resemblance to the Tome of Horrors Revised that I own. I'm guessing that they were using the unrevised?

That is correct. I made my own 3.5 conversion of the dragonnel. Consider this one a variant or feel free to substitute in the one from TOHR. I hope you have fun with it!


They had no trouble with the dragonnel, although the shambler and the unique monster caused some difficulties. The mountains of mooks encounter was easy but satisfying to them. They loved the hard fought bridge encounter. So many tactical options!

Liberty's Edge

silenttimo wrote:
Minsk wrote:
The crew of the River Queen definitely makes a big difference in the encounters on the river in our game. The will o' wisp turned out to be nigh invulnerable to my players' attacks so two rounds in I had to spontaneously drop its AC a bit to give my mates a fighting chance.

I can see your point of view.

However, I do not see Esteban or Hurg going out of the boat, Farukh dies during the course of the adventure, and the other three are not very efficient.

I also see the fell flotsam + will o' wisp as a very hard fight, as well as the fight at Whitebridge if I fully play the elven tactics as described.

I know there is plenty of time to replenish and recover, but gosh, how hard are those encounters (level +4 or +5 above a 4th level party).

And when I look at pirhanas swarms, I cross my fingers that they have don't swim while several swarms approach : they are as nearly invulnerable as the will o' wisp (except for fire or acid, but since they are in the water...).

With the bridge fight Esteban will allow Farukh and two guards to go with the party to investigate. (I'm going to have a Zen Archer and a Gunslinger in my game so maybe they can match ranged with ranged).

Since it talks about the guards killing the boar I figured they would be with the PC's during the wisp/flotsam fight. Help I figured everyone one be there as the boar killing is the first positive thing to happen on there trip.

Also there is a good chance that the PCs will be level 5 as early as after the whitebridge fight. They could even get to Level 6 depending on how many random encounters they run into.

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