I would love to see some high level modules in this series. With the Adventure Paths ending at around 15th through 17th level I would like some adventures for after these levels. I really enjoyed the high level adventures in Dungeon Magazine. Am I the only person who wants some high level Modules?
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Am I the only person who wants some high level Modules?
Absolutely not, I also love high level adventures...even epic ones
can be fun to read...even if you don't play them...I love to seewhat game designers do to try to challenge high level characters....
How about an AP starting at 15th and ending at 25th level? Tough to
write...no doubt...but quite cool.
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The lack of high-level modules thus far in Gamemastery is the only reason I'm not a superscriber. Low-level modules, even ones as well-written as Paizo's gems, just don't have any appeal to me. Low-level is easy to write. I don't really need to pay anybody to get decent, coherent low-level material.
High-level stuff, though, that's where the appeal lies. I'll happily pay somebody else to do the stat block math for a 20th level Rogue with a 30 Int. (Pathfinder 1.0 Skills FTW!)
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Am I the only person who wants some high level Modules?
Its been said multiple times that:
1) while there is a following for high level adventures, it isn't nearly as profound as low/mid level ones.
2) High Level adventures are just harder to makes, as there has been more personalization of the characters by this point, and it is more difficult to account for different builds without having the storyline feel like it is railroading the players.
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Yeah, we all pretty much know the reasons why they don't exist, and why they aren't going to in the future.
It almost makes one wonder, why, if they aren't really going to support them with adventures and the like, is Paizo even bothering with developing class levels over about 14 or so in the Pathfinder PRG. 8th and especially 9th level spells seem to be the cause of so much argument over rules at gaming tables, so why not just cut them and the class levels that support them all out of the game, if you're making general changes?
It almost makes one wonder, why, if they aren't really going to support them with adventures and the like, is Paizo even bothering with developing class levels over about 14 or so in the Pathfinder PRG. 8th and especially 9th level spells seem to be the cause of so much argument over rules at gaming tables, so why not just cut them and the class levels that support them all out of the game, if you're making general changes?
I agree. If the Adventure Paths run to 15th level, that's a logical stopping point for the Pathfinder final rules too--leaving more room for rules actually implemented in Pathfinder and Pathfinder Modules.
16+ play could even get its own supplement then--one which was able to devote enough space to the challenges of high level play.
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Contributor
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Yeah, we all pretty much know the reasons why they don't exist, and why they aren't going to in the future.
It almost makes one wonder, why, if they aren't really going to support them with adventures and the like, is Paizo even bothering with developing class levels over about 14 or so in the Pathfinder PRG. 8th and especially 9th level spells seem to be the cause of so much argument over rules at gaming tables, so why not just cut them and the class levels that support them all out of the game, if you're making general changes?
The idea is to support all manner of games. As much as we like to sit in our Ivory Tower and pretend the six of us represent pretty much the entire range of gamer out there (minus the furry gamer crowd, unless there's something Sutter isn't telling us), in truth there are things people enjoy that we don't fathom. It is for that reason, then, that we try to make both Golarion as a world and the PRPG as a game something inclusive enough for everyone.
Also, keep in mind that the PRPG is not set in Golarion. In theory, you should be able to play any campaign setting with the PRPG rules—FR, Eberron, Dark Sun (whenever we put out a psionic book), or your homebrew world.
As a final point, the design goal of the PRPG is to add, not cut (in general). And almost nothing could violate that rule more than chopping 33% of the level progression from the game. It's Jason's challenge to make high-level play appealing to those of us who don't currently like it while retaining enough power to also appeal to those who currently do. :)
What a great, informative answer. Thanks, Mike!
You're building up that Paizo brand loyalty every time you respond to questions with the real scoop---and not some PR blurb "prepped and scrubbed" for the fans.
And good luck, Jason! :)
Creative Director
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Eventually we WILL do high-level modules. I suspect also that eventually we'll do epic level ones, even. But first we have to establish the line, and that means getting a solid foundation of lower level adventures since the vast majority of players and GMs use the low and mid level range.
But even if we WEREN'T ever going to do high level adventures, we'd need to keep those rules in the game for monsters and NPCs, because even if your party never goes higher than 15th level, they'll still be fighting CR 18 or CR 20 bosses now and then.
In any even... the Patfinder RPG will remain a 1st-20th game, and epic play will be a part of it (although perhaps not in the core book).
I like that answer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about epic-level adventuring, but right now I'm just starting to get to know the World of Golarion through the modules and adventure paths. The level doesn't really matter. Eventually, I will want to delve into high/epic level stuff, but for now I'm really enjoying getting to know the setting. This is the way a setting ought to be developed.
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While it's ridiculous to believe Paizo won't do high or even epic-level adventure scenarios it is also unfortunate that we haven't seen one yet.
Sure they're cumbersome to do mechanically and harder to do creatively but, um, you're the professionals. In fact, you're the hands-down best in the business. The average gamer/gaming group does have a harder time with higher level stuff. There is a need; Dungeon had 1 in 3. Asking the company to make an effort to produce one quality high-level adventure in five is very reasonable. More than that would maybe be too much as there's more low and mid level campaigns being played. But two a year out of twelve, sweeeet.
I think the biggest problem is page count. Thirty-two pages just don't cut it for that stuff. Actually I take that back. At only thirty-two pages the good stuff is cut too much. I wish I could suggest a solution.
-W. E. Ray
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I want to have an epic adventure to free the Mouthpiece of Gurat!
I think the biggest problem is page count. Thirty-two pages just don't cut it for that stuff. Actually I take that back. At only thirty-two pages the good stuff is cut too much. I wish I could suggest a solution.
Maybe doing a two or three-parter like the Last Baron modules coming out.
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A good thought but I'd have to disagree. The point of Pathfinder is to do a sequence. The point of Modules is to do stand alone stuff. I bet a huge number of customers would be really worried (and vocal) about a sequence of Modules.
I did think of something, though, to save page space in higher level adventures. But, really, I don't know if the greater consumer base would accept it: What if you use the same font size for the stat blocks that you use for the OGL disclaimer.
For me this would be a dream come true as I rarely look past the CR of a creature in a published stat block; I do 'em myself. I wonder how many gamers that use the published stats (which is the majority!) would be willing to use them (aka - buy the mod) if they were smaller print...
Also, getting rid of pre-gen characters would be nice. It's only one page but every page counts. It be interesting to research how many customers would rather see another page of adventure against 4 PCs.
-W. E. Ray
As others have noted - I would really like (in fact, prefer) a whole lot more higher-level adventures (13th+).
These are much more time consuming to create, and is thus something that I'm willing to pay for.
We will do a high-level stand-alone adventure in 2009.
This is an obvious hole in the schedule and we will address it soon.
Thank you Erik
The Pathfinder AP were slated to be 1 - 20, I had asked a question about this awhile back and was told that they will begin to do that.. after a few paths.
Perhaps James or Erik or Vic or ____ whomever can elaborate.
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I would *love* a high level Pathfinder module, as my gamers and fellow players hate to let go of their characters (especially the ones that haven't died). I don't know how much of a following there would be for 15+ adventures, let alone 20+ epic adventures, but you can count me in for both. If there were to be epic Pathfinder anything, I would want the epic levels to undergo the PRPG revision before it an epic adventure was published. I'm not holding my breath though--if the boards are any indicator, it feels like we'll have a psionic PRPG supplement before we have epic PRPG.
Granted it would take some work for the Dm, But:
Do you think it would be feasible, if the PC's agreed not to go ape-.. ermm... nuts, with some of the higher end mechanics, to rehash some of the adventure paths as higher level rather than lower level?
(this question is to the community rather than the designers.. I hardly expect them to "upgrade" an already written adventure)
The campaign arc as a whole, in very nearly any of the adventure paths, are very solid in story and scope. Would raising the levels of the monsters and NPC's (and maybe stretching the overland distance a little) be all that terribly difficult- assuming the PC's agreed to control themselves as well?
-S
I am anxious to see how the PRPG handles high level play in this regard, as DM'ing 3.5 is out of the question for me and gets WAY too complicated for me after 13th level or so. 4E seems to handle high-level stuff quite well, and doesn't seem nearly as daunting as the stat blocks for CR 15+ encounters. Having two rulesets that can both handle this level of play would be outstanding!