I've been thinking about 4E and what it seems to lack. Now, keep in mind that this is all based off of what WotC has chosen to reveal to the world at large. If the concerns are baseless, then great, but it doesn't hurt to talk about them since they are REAL concerns until we are shown otherwise.
4E is lacking, IMO, a token level of verisimilitude.
Previous editions, of course, were never very high on the believability meter, but there were usually token concessions in the rules or rules descriptions that gave people enough wriggle room to justify things. Let's take Hit Points, for example. If a 10th level Fighter with and a +2 Con modifier had maximum hit points, 120 Hit Points, lost all of his hit points, he would be considered to have been seriously injured (by most people). Yet, with complete bed rest and a successful Heal check, that 10th level character would be completely Healed in 3 days. That's not very believable, too be honest, but at least it's a speed bump.
Now, in 4E, from what we've seen so far, after a 6 hour rest that same Fighter will be completely healed (remember that you can only take one 6 hour rest per 'day'). That's not that HUGE a difference, but it's still significant. If your character was burned, bruised, cut, stabbed, and brought to 0 hit points, in 3.5 you're as good as new in 3 days. In 4E it only takes 1 day.
Not that big a difference, a loss of 2 days from death's door to good as new, but it's noticeable, especially to those who lean a bit towards the simulation side of things. I understand why it was done--they want to encourage players to stay at the dungeon instead of feeling like they have to trek back to town--but I think that there should be an optional rule of some kind to allow people to inject a token level of verisimilitude back into game.
I'm sure there are other issues that are irritating from a verisimilitude point of view. The healing issue was just the first one to spring to mind.
So, my question to everyone: What issue, in particular, have you seen with 4E that hits you in the "verisimilitude" nether regions? And, also, how would you fix it, either by a House Rule or included Optional Rule? I don't expect 4E to suddenly turn into a simulation of some kind, but even a few token efforts can go a long way, IMO.
Now that I've stated my first issue that bothers me from a verisimilitude point of view, I'll post my proposed fix in a secondary post. :)
Okay, the Healing issue. You can go from 0 to fully healed in 3 days in 3.5--or go from 0 to fully healed in one day in 4E. How would I inject a small level of verisimilitude to this?
Well, from numerous playtest reports made by people trying out the game as revealed at the DnDXP, players will still reach 0 hit points. A lot of people, even with more powerful 1st level PCs, found that the PCs still came close to death numerous times, and that against monsters of their level. The consensus seems to be that 1st level play feels like 5th level play in 3.5 would feel (dangerous, but not cutting-edge deadly). So PCs hitting 0 hit points and going unconscious won't be that uncommon (a relief).
So, my proposed fix would be to have the PCs lose 1 point of Constitution each time they reach 0 hit points. These lost Con points could only be recovered by complete bed rest at a rate of 1 point a day.
And that's it. Not very deadly, to be sure, but it would reflect some kind of effect from the PC taking multiple injuries. If the PC is too careless, or faces some severe challenges, he will lose some Constitution which will effect his hit point total (I imagine).
The PCs won't be so hindered that they'll have to rush back to town (unless they're really unlucky) but there will still be some rest that has to be taken AFTER the dungeon, which is what I'm looking for. After they're through, they're going to have to recover a little bit, even if the penalty wasn't such that they felt forced to leave early.
Does this make any sense? I'm not sure if I explained it well.
Oh, my second House Rule is going to be that the PC has to suffer the effects of one of the Critical Hit Cards from Paizo each time they hit 0 hit points too. ;)
Concerning the hit point, damage and healing system I will probably add the Condition Track of SAGA starwars and make the condition persistents (more difficult to heal) on critical hit: Each time you take more damage than your Fortitude Save you suffer increasing debiliting effects (minus to attack, defense, move, ability and skills checks up to the unconscious or disabled state). So even if you can endure a lot of punishment with your cinematic hit points buffer and regain those point quickly, you can still suffer from wounds that have a direct impact on your character combat effectiveness...
AZRogue, your house rules are perfectly understandable, at least to me. The only potential problems that I can see would be the cascading effect of ability damage (re-calculation = Ugh!), which looks like this will be less of a problem in 4e, and the possible impact to encounter balance. Personally, I lean towards the gamist end of the spectrum (followed by narrativism, with simulationism being a distant third), so the abstract nature of the D&D PC damage/healing system never really bugged me.
Concerning the hit point, damage and healing system I will probably add the Condition Track of SAGA starwars and make the condition persistents (more difficult to heal) on critical hit: Each time you take more damage than your Fortitude Save you suffer increasing debiliting effects (minus to attack, defense, move, ability and skills checks up to the unconscious or disabled state). So even if you can endure a lot of punishment with your cinematic hit points buffer and regain those point quickly, you can still suffer from wounds that have a direct impact on your character combat effectiveness...
That sounds very interesting. I haven't played SAGA, though I've heard good things, and am not familiar with the Condition Track you mentioned. It sounds very promising.
My problem is that I LIKE the cinematic hit points/healing surge mechanic. I just don't like that I have to also lose "long term injury" as a feature to get my nice and shiny new mechanic.
I'll have to give the Condition Track you mentioned a look. :)
EDIT: Shroomy, I'm on the gamist side of things as well. That's why I like the healing surge mechanic so much. I just would like an option to have some kind of effect in place that would let me SEPERATE my adventures a bit, time wise. Does that make sense? Going through the adventure without having to go back to town is a good thing in my book, but after the adventure is done a little down time being needed is also good. :)
Ability damage isn't in the system - my suggestion in another thread was to reduce your number of healing surges. You have some fiddly bits there - like you can also reduce the max by 1 once you hit bloodied and when you hit 0.
I don't exactly suggest using such a house rule, but I understand it bugs people so there you go. What I do suggest is thinking of it in the following terms:
Hit Points represent capability to withstand punishment in a fight. Being full hp does _not_ necessarily represent being at the healthiest you can be.
So, a fighter who is bashed by a giant, scorched by a dragon, and has an arrow shot into his shoulder rests. After rest, he's back to full hp (whether he rested overnight or simply spent enough healing surges) - he's still got a massive bruise, a misshaped sunburn, and the arrow was taken out but he's still got a bandaged shoulder that he'll gripe about every now and then.
That doesn't mean he can't fight, however, in true movie fashion. Saving the princess is too important for petty things like bruises and burns and a little bit of blood.
In fact, I'd encourage you to take it a step further and roleplay being actually injured and scarred. In previous editions of D&D, you were implicitly healed to full I think, but here I would be okay to thematically not be since hit points are clearly tied as much to morale as physical punishment.
That sounds very interesting. I haven't played SAGA, though I've heard good things, and am not familiar with the Condition Track you mentioned. It sounds very promising.My problem is that I LIKE the cinematic hit points/healing surge mechanic. I just don't like that I have to also lose "long term injury" as a feature to get my nice and shiny new mechanic.
I'll have to give the Condition Track you mentioned a look. :)
EDIT: Shroomy, I'm on the gamist side of things as well. That's why I like the healing surge mechanic so much. I just would like an option to have some kind of effect in place that would let me SEPERATE my adventures a bit, time wise. Does that make sense? Going through the adventure without having to go back to town is a good thing in my book, but after the adventure is done a little down time being needed is also good. :)
Hmmm, given your like of the new, cinematic hit point/healing surge mechanic and your desire to separate individual adventures over time, I honestly think you'd get more bang for your buck by integrating downtime into the campaign instead of enforcing it mechanically by tinkering with the system. But you know your players and yourself better than I.