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I'm starting up a new SCAP campaign in the very near future, but I actually have very little 3.5 DM'ing experience. The last time I tried this, I allowed a Warblade and a Swordsage into the party, and I felt that they were having very little difficulty with most of the encounters (in fact, I think the Warblade could have handled a lot of the adventure solo with enough breaks to heal). In an effort to prevent that from happening again, I'm trying to get some feedback on other nonstandard classes presented to me.
So, what are your overall impressions of the Warlock? I have access to the class write-up; I'm more concerned with how it plays in practice. Is there anything I need to watch out for as a DM? Any situations the class tends to breeze through with ease? Any huge gaps it leaves in party makeup if it's the only arcane caster around?
Thanks in advance for your comments!
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It's awfully liberating at low levels, being able to plink away all day with Eldritch Blasts, and if your Warlock player goes all optimal on you, he'll pick the Shatter 'Word' invocation and the Summon Swarm one as his first really annoying tricks to use at will. Summon Swarm isn't any worse than the spell of the same name, but the Shatter at will thing can be a nasty piece of work since almost all of the nice low level encounters do damage through weapons and become pretty wimpy if their weapons are blowed up. (No need to specifically penalize the character by having no weapon-bearing foes, but a few Skeletons / Zombies / Giant Ants / etc. may help to break up the monotony of having him explosively disarm entire encounters, one at a time.)
At low level, the Warlock may attempt to stay out of melee by using Spider Climb (again, at will) and hang out on ceilings or up trees, plinking away with those blasts and shatters. At 6th or so, that will upgrade to Fell Flight (fly, at will), and you'll have a highly mobile one-trick pony with his Blast, Shatter and perhaps some other stunt.
Once he gets Black Tentacles, you'll have to kill him.
As much as it's a novel thing, ultimately the Warlock is not doing as much damage, and certainly not affecting as many targets, as other classes. The very small list of Invocations usable (even if all of them are usable at will) means that the Warlock is going to have a very repetitive feel, and it can quickly become very boring to someone uses to having the range of options available to even a Sorcerer, let along the veritable smorgasboard of choices given to Wizard, Cleric or Druid.
Note that Warlocks can wear light armor, and are eligible to get the Battle Caster feat from PHB2, meaning that a 9th level Warlock could conceivably be floating in midair, wearing mithral full plate, flinging 5d6 Eldritch Blasts every round. That's a pretty cool image, if nothing else.
It's awfully liberating at low levels, being able to plink away all day with Eldritch Blasts, and if your Warlock player goes all optimal on you, he'll pick the Shatter 'Word' invocation and the Summon Swarm one as his first really annoying tricks to use at will. Summon Swarm isn't any worse than the spell of the same name, but the Shatter at will thing can be a nasty piece of work since almost all of the nice low level encounters do damage through weapons and become pretty wimpy if their weapons are blowed up. (No need to specifically penalize the character by having no weapon-bearing foes, but a few Skeletons / Zombies / Giant Ants / etc. may help to break up the monotony of having him explosively disarm entire encounters, one at a time.)
Really? I didn't let my players target an object held or worn by another creature.
At the very least that creature would get a will save to negate the effect.
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The warlock could also go for the Beguiling Influence (+6Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate) and Leaps and Bounds (+6 Jump, Tumble, Balance) invocations, making those skill checks high as hell, seeing as charisma and dexterity are probably going to be the players highest stats. I think that the warlock is a fun class, personally. I always got bored when I ran out of spells and every other party member was still hacking away for tons of damage. It all depends on that players style of play. If he likes arcane casters, but hates the spell slot limit (even the sorcerers), then maybe warlock is for him. I would probably go for fun things to do with the invocations, and I would have the most fun making his background story. Like I said before, it's all what the player wants from the class.
SIDEBAR: You know, when I think of a warlock, I think of someone swinging a giant lock attached to a chain at someone's head...
Warlocks suck (from my DM point of view).
They seem fine early on and their power threshold does not build too high (though high enough to be annoying) but they just have a few really good tricks.
If you want to let a player have this class then I hope that they understand the nature of the DM & player social contract. Otherwise prepare to eventually experience a constantly invisible, possible flying, warlock that covers every surface with black tentacles and shatters everything. Oh and maybe dimdoors constantly instead of walking.
Combat Encounter Design is made much tougher by warlocks. Either they will walk through the encounter or they will be completely shut down. (One trick ponies remember?)
If you don't mind players being the awesome hero then go right ahead. If you want to challenge them without pining them to the ground and beating them (figuratively) then I would recommend saying no.
Really? I didn't let my players target an object held or worn by another creature.
At the very least that creature would get a will save to negate the effect.
An attended item should get a Will save equal to its owners Will save is the way I read it. Which makes it a little less reliable and at the very low levels the weapons that do the big damage are out of the wuight limit if I remember correctly. You need to be level 8 or 9 if I remember correctly to Shatter a standard door. It's still a good fun invocation don't get me wrong but it can be really powerful depending on how much sleack the DM wants to give (can't Shatter the door but can I just Shatter the lock sort of thing).
but the Shatter at will thing can be a nasty piece of work since almost all of the nice low level encounters do damage through weapons and become pretty wimpy if their weapons are blowed up.Really? I didn't let my players target an object held or worn by another creature.
At the very least that creature would get a will save to negate the effect.
Wow, AL. That's like telling a fighter he can sunder anything except the weapon his opponent is wielding. Rules for item saving throws are on PHB166 - unattended items never make saving throws, while attended items make saving throws as the character. Shatter (PHB278) has a saving throw of Will (negates). So, your "at the very least" approach which you didn't allow is - apparently - the right approach.
I love Warlocks, btw.
OP - something else to keep in mind. Warlocks can't really directly assist their teammates the way other arcane casters can. Warlocks are all about themselves. The only divergence from this is the availability of battlefield-shaping invocations, like Breath of the Night, Miasmic Cloud, Hungry Darkness, Wall of Gloom, Chilling Tentacles, and Wall of Perilous Flame.
Warlocks *can* use magic items (but so can Rogues) and can even Take 10 on a UMD check at level 4. They can detect magic at will. This is in the write-up, but they are worth (imo) repeating and considering as you prepare your adventure.
If you are going to allow a Warlock, I strongly urge you to let the player have access to the Invocations in Dragon Magic and Complete Mage, also. Some of them allow the Warlock design to run off in radically different directions - which is a good thing.
Warlock multi-classed or gestalted with Rogue or Scout can make for some really nasty combos. Warlock/Fighter should *definitely* take the Eldrich Glaive invocation.
And yes - the 9th lvl Warlock in mithral full-plate, flying about tossing out Blasts (Chained or Brimstone'd) with a 250' range (Spear) at invisible opponents (See the Unseen), while deflecting incoming arrows (Entropic Warding) - is a nice visual.
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Thanks for the comments so far!
Combat Encounter Design is made much tougher by warlocks. Either they will walk through the encounter or they will be completely shut down. (One trick ponies remember?)
If you don't mind players being the awesome hero then go right ahead. If you want to challenge them without pining them to the ground and beating them (figuratively) then I would recommend saying no.
This is the kind of thing I'm afraid of, particularly because I don't know the player very well. I'm thinking of allowing the class, but inserting some kind of caveat about overuse of the abilities drawing the attention of nearby demons (sort of like putting on the One Ring) to discourage abuse of certain powers.
At the very least that creature would get a will save to negate the effect.They do, but at low level, the critters you face tend not to have terribly good Will saves.
Very true.
I'm starting up a new SCAP campaign in the very near future, but I actually have very little 3.5 DM'ing experience. The last time I tried this, I allowed a Warblade and a Swordsage into the party, and I felt that they were having very little difficulty with most of the encounters (in fact, I think the Warblade could have handled a lot of the adventure solo with enough breaks to heal). In an effort to prevent that from happening again, I'm trying to get some feedback on other nonstandard classes presented to me.
So, what are your overall impressions of the Warlock? I have access to the class write-up; I'm more concerned with how it plays in practice. Is there anything I need to watch out for as a DM? Any situations the class tends to breeze through with ease? Any huge gaps it leaves in party makeup if it's the only arcane caster around?
Thanks in advance for your comments!
I played a warlock in the SCAP right out of the gate. I really bothered the DM with the shatter ability, as I kept blowing up opponent's weapons and stunning them (Will and Fort negating, of course, but it's a reasonbly high DC because it counts as a 2nd level spell).
When we had to chase someone around a block, but I instead shattered the lock on a shop, ran through the shop, then shattered the lock on the back door, the DM was particularly frustrated.
When that character died at about level 4, the DM wouldn't let me play another warlock. So I made a scout instead, and have been basically playing a scout since.
The DM wouldn't listen to my arguments that warlocks even out in power after the very low levels, and in fact are probably not really up to par with other casters at high levels, but he wouldn't believe me. I ruined his good opinion of the class with rampant shattering.
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I played a warlock for 10 levels (including playing through RHoD). My take:
A bit boring and a bit underpowered.
The power peak (relative to other classes) is about 5th level or so. After that they become less and less relatively powerful.
They are also a very hedgehog class ("The fox has many tricks. The hedgehog has but one."). They do a few things very well and whenever they feel like doing them. If a problem can't be solved by one of those tricks, the warlock has limited utility.
Further, they don't get new tricks very often, so if you make a poor choice, you'll take some time getting a new choice.
I'd discourage a player from taking the class, because its fun palls pretty quickly, but I'd allow it as written if the player were adamant.