I remember fifth and sixth grade. "Let's hate her today!" I didn't like it then. I made a conscious decision not to participate in it then. In fact, I founded a gaming group with a "no ostracisms" rule for all us social rejects, and completely rejected the possibility of any social interactions with all the other folks who acted like that back then.
Probably because of that, I've always thought of "gamers" as people who've been there. The one-time-social-outcasts who know better than to treat people like that. I've seen plenty of evidence that this model doesn't hold true; I've gamed with people who were athletic and who possessed social skills, and who were probably always "popular" - who never experienced the social pressures that I'm talking about. But I still have that as part of my mental concept of what gamers are all about. People who can be expected to understand the consequence of obnoxious social ostracism, and who are more tolerant of others as a result. People who don't engage in bullying because they know better.
And I think that's why I'm so unhappy here, recently. I've mentioned it before, said that I feel like just going away and not coming back. Said that I'm afraid the level of vitriol on this site is going to drive away potential customers. People responded, and some of them might even have understood.
But now it's come into focus for me, thanks to the Any Non-Complaint Based Threads On 4E thread.
In the first mere handful of posts, several people felt it necessary to express their dislike of 4E by coming in and "vomiting" all over the thread. One of them did this because that's his MO. Okay. But two of the others, in following his lead, felt the need to create new identities in order to join this so-called joke, and thus to share in the solidarity that comes from ganging up on, and verbally abusing, others.
SO fifth grade. I'm sorry, I can't see it any other way. Obnoxious, purely for the sake of joining a group of others who are being obnoxious.
So, feel free to abuse me in turn for my evaluation here. It won't make this any less true. This is bullying, and I'm calling you on it.
Good on you for taking a stand. I've seen remarks here that would justifiably have got someone banned or reprimanded on other boards. hurtful, nasty stuff.
Thumbs up!
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SO fifth grade. I'm sorry, I can't see it any...
The sad thing* is that the tolerance of roleplayers was never extended to their favorite hobby. As soon as the first letters to the editor were printed in the old Dragon magazine, roleplayers followed the same patterns we can recognize right at the moment. The typical roleplayer thinks that he exactly knows how the game should be played and if someone has another opinion, this person is obnoxious, stupid and generally unworthy. the typical roleplayer can't even imagine that a designer, doing something he dislikes, could actually have a reason for his decision. Instead he takes it for granted that said designer willingly tries to destroy "his" game. The typical roleplayer thinks that he acts for the majority of roleplayers because he cannot imagine that anyone couldn't recognize his superior insights into the system.
Hyperbole? Maybe, but as Sean Mahoney stated in the other thread, this isn't the first time we hear exactly the same arguments against a new edition. So in the meantime, I've become quite pessimistic as far as the general level of tolerance under roleplayers is concerned. Luckily, there are exceptions.
*The real sad thing is that to exclude myself from this group I had to lie. I'm trying hard but I'm failing sometimes.
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I agree. Despite my feeling on 4E I read that thread and decided not to join in on the beating. I don't like a Pro-4E persons going on a 4Ebashing thread and trying to smack around the posters, and I don't like Anti-4E persons ruining a pro-4E thread.
People are trying to have discussions on the matter to hash out their thoughts and feelings on the issue and one person going in and outright ruining a thread just to show their contempt for an idea is nothing but rude.
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But two of the others, in following his lead, felt the need to create new identities in order to join this so-called joke, and thus to share in the solidarity that comes from ganging up on, and verbally abusing, others.
First, thanks for you intervention, Cintra.
I just want to make clear that "Vomit Guy's Evil Twin" was created way before this thread, actually, and serves some purpose from my POV.
Like you seem to imply, I do think that all these threads turn round and round. It doesn't look like it, but we actually agree on this.
There is just no communication going on between anyone on the topic of 4E. Nobody's willing to actually acknowledge that someone on a thread might, just might have a different opinion and leave it at that. Instead, it's just rhetorical statement after rhetorical statement, just for the sake of vomiting on one another. As far as I'm concerned, using "Vomit Guy" just does the same thing, but in a much less hypocritical way. If it can create more reactions like the one you just had here, it's beneficial in the end.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Cintra, I think the community is suffering from 4e burn out. Everyone is posting new threads just for the sake of hearing themselves speak as the first poster. Every single thread boils down to the same 3-5 posters making the same arguments over and over and over again. Vomit Guy is an attempt to add levity to those threads and to express how frustrating and annoying these constant streams of 4e threads are becoming.
I don't believe it was intended as an attack on the OP in that thread; Aberzombie is a decent guy (much nicer than me) and he's just trying to keep things light (IMO).
I'd like to see the vomit posts cease.
That's not a request.
I've only been posting on these boards for about half a year and outside of the 4E threads the tone is usually pretty good. 4E just happens to bring the worst out in a lot of people because of how strongly everyone feels about D&D (hence the reason why we post on these boards at all) and the changes that are being made. Check out the rest of the boards (especially the PbP threads, some of them are excellent) and I think you will find a better atmosphere.
As for RPG players being less judgmental? Well, they are people just like everyone else and they come from all branches of life and many varied backgrounds. You get the best and worst just like everywhere else you go.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Joshua J. Frost “the heavy handed” (Director of Sales and Marketing) has spoken.
Play nice or he will take away your Internets.
I agree. Despite my feeling on 4E I read that thread and decided not to join in on the beating. I don't like a Pro-4E persons going on a 4Ebashing thread and trying to smack around the posters, and I don't like Anti-4E persons ruining a pro-4E thread.
People are trying to have discussions on the matter to hash out their thoughts and feelings on the issue and one person going in and outright ruining a thread just to show their contempt for an idea is nothing but rude.
I concur. I'm not looking forward to 4E but people are not really saying anything new. At least address the topic at hand.
WARNING: Attempt at humour below. Possible distraction, irritation and bleeding of the rectum may occur. In rare causes laughter or a brief chuckle might ensue.
WotC: 4E will still have donkeys as mounts.
Hater trying to win the haters ball: What?!? What about ponies, huh?!?! Gez I hate drow and what your doing to the realms, and saving throws and the wheel and mountain dew and blackguardians and my little ponies and...
Random Passerby: Huh? I don't think that has anything to do with the topic.
Hater trying to win the haters ball: And where's my waffle fries?!?! I mean, my god, how come I am forced to either play elvis or not elvis. No half-elvis template now? Another thing...
Note: This is an attempt at humour. Not an attempt at winning the haters ball (unless you really think I got a shot).
You win Archlich, you win. I'm crying with laughter here. :D
I'm not the most tech savy person here but what the Hell is a vomit post?
It’s a thread response consisting only of throw up noises, indicating disdain, boredom, or simply the need for a thread to go away. It’s a lesser cousin of the “smurfing,” (or blue-nami, as I like to call it if it occurs in excess) and the big brother of the “dead horse.”
You so owe me for making me use the word smurf in a post.
Okay then I'm done with Vomit Gal/4e threads..you can continue..sorry for my misuse of humor where you folks are trying to have a forum.
Aberzombie I'm so sorry for this! I didn't think anything would come of it, I was only playing off your name.
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Well, I guess I missed the show. I won't apologize for my "Vomit Guy" posts, as I intended them as a form of levity. If some people choose to see it differently, that's their problem. I'm not a 4E "hater", although some of my earliest posts on the subject were of that variety. Since then (as can be seen in other posts I've put up) I've moved into the "wait and see camp".
Sebastian, thanks for coming to my defense. You're one of the good ones.
Mr. Frost, I don't agree with your supression of the posts, or with you ordering us to cease and desist, but for the sake of those whose skin is apparently far to thin, I'll lay off. I am disappointed, however. In my own opinion, this thread response is far more immature than my simple attempts at humor.
Mr. Frost, I don't agree with your supression of the posts, or with you ordering us to cease and desist, but for the sake of those whose skin is apparently far to thin, I'll lay off. I am disappointed, however. In my own opinion, this thread response is far more immature than my simple attempts at humor.
Aberzombie-I was simply playing off your name-I thought having a Vomit Gal would be funny; Then somebody showed with a Vomit kid I guess this would have led to Vomit Uncle,Vomit Grandpa etc, believe me I in no way intended for this to escalated the hostilities of the(4e) community and it did. I feel the need to correct this, for I guess given their point of view, I came in and interupted their forum. Again to all posters on the 4e forums I apologize for my ill-humor(which was just misunderstanding).
Peace out-
Cintra-Vomit Gal is dead-The Fat Lady Has Sung has replaced that Alias.
I remember fifth and sixth grade. "Let's hate her today!"
Ugh.
It wasn't any better for me until I got out of High School. Any you're right, it's aweful.
Sometimes, i feel the need to vent. Looking back, some of that venting looks pretty childish. But I agree it's critical not to vent in a place other people are trying to do something else. It's rude, and very middle school.
And the only reason I post at Paizo *at all* is that the forums always seemed very reasoned and friendly. We should all work not to lose that feel.
AC 12
prone
HPS -10
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This strikes me as a silly joke that got out of hand, and which could have been dealt with civilly rather than leading to the invocation of Management. The 4E posts don't really add much since we know so little, it is certainly true, but some people need to vent. Unless we are saying that it is not legitimate to have strong feelings on the subject, stuff like this will happen. What is important is not that we conceal what we feel on the subject but that we comport ourselves with politeness and good humour on these boards. And that goes for all sides. I doubt the 4E debate will see significant progress until the books come out, but it isn't going to go away.
Well, I guess I missed the show. I won't apologize for my "Vomit Guy" posts, as I intended them as a form of levity. If some people choose to see it differently, that's their problem. I'm not a 4E "hater", although some of my earliest posts on the subject were of that variety. Since then (as can be seen in other posts I've put up) I've moved into the "wait and see camp".
Sebastian, thanks for coming to my defense. You're one of the good ones.
Mr. Frost, I don't agree with your supression of the posts, or with you ordering us to cease and desist, but for the sake of those whose skin is apparently far to thin, I'll lay off. I am disappointed, however. In my own opinion, this thread response is far more immature than my simple attempts at humor.
I must say I have always found Vomit Guys posts to be a humorous moment that a thread needed to remember itself. That being said i also think some people took the joke and ran. A clone here and there, OK. But for me there is only one vomit guy.
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I must say I have always found Vomit Guys posts to be a humorous moment that a thread needed to remember itself.
Which, of course, was the point all along. No matter what motives some people attempt to ascribe to me, the purpose of "Vomit Guy" was only to inject a little humor now and then.
But for me there is only one vomit guy.
From one undead guy to another....thanks.
Why didn't you post this in that thread? Wouldn't it have gotten it back on-track?
There are several people in this forum attempting to discuss 4e, the proposed changes to D&D, and the potential effects on the RPG hobby in a rational manner. Compared to many other places, the conversations here are fairly moderate and pleasant (something I appreciate). People here are actually advancing arguments and supporting them with facts (what few we actually know).
Unless Paizo wants to start instituting more active moderating functions, however, there is no way to completely avoid the trolls, name-calling, and personal attacks (either real or perceived) on such a contentious topic. Emotions are running high on both sides of the issue.
Personally, as I've said before, I'm in the "wait and see" camp. I feel disappointed in WotC for keeping the "D&D" name for a game that (from the preview material) is built on around a different set of assumptions than those that have supported the system for 30+ years. However, I can understand (if not agree with) the reasoning behind the move.
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Why didn't you post this in that thread? Wouldn't it have gotten it back on-track?
I guess you were talking to me...
Anyway, I didn't try to correct the situation in the other thread because I didn't know about it until it was mostly all over. I posted for Vomit Guy yesterday afternoon, and notice Vomit Gal, but didn't have a chance to respond. I never even got a chance to see the follow on Vomit Kid that people are telling me about, or any others that folks are might have been used.
It sucks that Vomit Guy got the ban hammer, and I personally think some people overreacted, but oh well, that's the way the hurl hits the porcelain throne.
Why didn't you post this in that thread? Wouldn't it have gotten it back on-track?I guess you were talking to me...
Well, actually no. To the OP. But if your lonely or something :P
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Sebastian, thanks for coming to my defense. You're one of the good ones.
I don't know if I would go that far - I have alignment related abilities that prevent me from performing good deeds after all - but I'm glad I could help. I liked vomit guy, he and dead horse have lightened the mood in many a flame war.
Off to post my respects...
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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I've certainly "vented" fairly aggressively in some threads, but usually only ones that were already anti-4E to begin with. I'll admit I have my panties up in a bunch about the whole issue but I found the Vomit-folk to be pretty hilarious.
What I don't find humorous are posters who come into a thread just to be snarky. I don't go into the pro-4E threads, don't come into anti-4E ones if you're not planning on commisserating with those of us clearly on the 3.5 side of the fence.
It's only common courtesy.
<STUNNING SCREECH>
Sticky?Thanks. To the OP, your Welcome. :|
whatever
Enough smarty-pants talk, choirboy! Your lunch money's forfeit. Get him, guys!
:P
Seriously, though, you're comparing apples to oranges. No one's bullying the loner kid just for kicks. We think the big rich kid is arrogant and insults us and is talking down on us thinks he's better than us, we get angry at that, and thus hate him.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that's a chick. At least that's what the profile says. Then again, what do I know, I'm just an obnoxious bully.whateverEnough smarty-pants talk, choirboy! Your lunch money's forfeit. Get him, guys!
:P
I just decided out of the blue that she looks like a guy. I'm so funny. Hahahahaha
It sucks that Vomit Guy got the ban hammer,
NOOOOO! I really liked Vomit Guy! Don't tell me he's been silenced! I'm sorry to hear this Aberzombie (and by hear, I mean read the post out loud as I am wont to do).
Lay low for a week, and so much happens that I miss.
As to the OP, I do think there have been some childish posts of late. (Not Vomit Guy, and a few other posts that are done sheerly for levity). It's got to the point I only skim through very quickly, if at all, reading only the posts of those that have made good points, or made good suggestions in the past. It's become exhausting quite honestly.
Or maybe that's just the lack of sleep.
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NOOOOO! I really liked Vomit Guy! Don't tell me he's been silenced! I'm sorry to hear this Aberzombie (and by hear, I mean read the post out loud as I am wont to do).
Well, if you wish to show you're sadness for poor, misunderstood Vomit Guy, just mosey on over to this thread and light a candle.
