Does anyone know the reasons why paladins and monks are not allowed continue in levels once they stop? Was it mechanical reasons or spat?
From what I've read on EN World and other bits and pieces, all flavour reasons. The playtesters felt that paladins and monks must be dedicated to their training, path, whatever. I think Sean K Reynolds site has a piece about this. Conclusion: the classes are balanced and no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to multi-class like any other.
It's mostly storyline purpose I believe. the basics is that these kind of characters shouldn't want to multi-class because they should focus on their current paths.
IE: A Paladin should be completely commited to the path of defending the faithful of his god and should not stray from this path. If Heironious has told him that being a Paladin is his path then that should be good enough
Monk's, on the other hand are a class about discipline, discipline to their monastic code and as such deviating classes is the same as deviating from that rigid training.
That said, while things like warforged and artificers are arguably broken, the Eberron campaign setting has two new feats, "Monastic Training" and "Knightly Training" that allow a player to multiclass once without consequence.
Does anyone know the reasons why paladins and monks are not allowed continue in levels once they stop? Was it mechanical reasons or spat?
Same reason they're arbitrarily required to be lawful--tradition. Neither class is unbalanced by dropping their alignment and multiclassing restrictions.
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Same reason they're arbitrarily required to be lawful--tradition. Neither class is unbalanced by dropping their alignment and multiclassing restrictions.
I'm not sure about the alignment restrictions. Sure, there's nothing terribly unbalanced about a neutral good monk, but I'm not sure that, say, a monk / barbarian isn't unbalanced somewhere along the road.
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There's an easy mechanical reason: those classes have lots of front-loaded abilities. Combining paladin2 with monk3 is a very powerful character among his EL5 peers. If you're gonna play that kind of dude, you can't have more levels of paladin or monk, you're gonna have to be a fighter or whatnot.
Now, following that logic, ranger should also be restricted somewhat. Druid and barbarian not as much. But that's where the story thing comes in I guess, cause it's hard to develop a reason to not go back to learning ranger.
So I guess those abilities come from focus and discipline, where ranger abilities come from no one in RnD playing rangers between 3rd and 3.5.
You'll note that the classes that say you can multiclass between monk and/or paladin generally have some continuation of those same abilities, so I think that's evidence of the mechanical exlanation.
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The main reason, as Tequila said, is simply tradition. removing either restriction doesn't unbalance either class. Because at the end of the day, they are still primarily melee combatants, without access to spells, which is where most of the true power lies.
As for the sited monk3/paladin2. I'm not sure he is all that much more powerful than a straight Barbarian 5, or Barb1/Fighter4, or even better, Rang2 / Barb 1 / Fighter 2. And you can make a Monk3 / Paladin 2 with the current rules anyway.
That said, while things like warforged and artificers are arguably broken, the Eberron campaign setting has two new feats, "Monastic Training" and "Knightly Training" that allow a player to multiclass once without consequence.
And here and there have popped up feats which allow multiclassing to some specific class...for example allowing either class to multiclass to cleric does make reasonable sense for flavor purposes (for power purposes that can be discussed...)
Sure, multiclassing with paladins and monks is possible even now, though it still takes some dedication that you have to make sure you have gotten everything you need from the guild before switching over (and ~4 levels of paladin do make any melee class more powerful)
Does anyone know the reasons why paladins and monks are not allowed continue in levels once they stop? Was it mechanical reasons or spat?From what I've read on EN World and other bits and pieces, all flavour reasons. The playtesters felt that paladins and monks must be dedicated to their training, path, whatever. I think Sean K Reynolds site has a piece about this. Conclusion: the classes are balanced and no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to multi-class like any other.
But flavor is the most important part!
There are also other wrinkles to this: In Oriental Adventures monks can multiclass freely, in FR certain monastic paths and certain paladin orders have some free limited "multiclass and return later" abilities and in complete adventurer, complete scoundrel, secrets of sarlona (and maybe a couple other books as well) there are the ascetic x and/or devoted x feats which allow free multiclassing between monk (for ascetic) or paladin (for devoted) and another class and allows certain class features to stack your monk/paladin levels and other class levels to determine power but you have to retain Lwhatever alignment to retain monk features and/or LG for paladin ones. Possibly the most interesting of the feats is devoted performer combining PALADIN and BARD levels for bardic music and smites AND you can continue to take bard levels even though you're lawful good.
My thoughts on this were that since these classes are very strict and disciplined it makes it difficult to move to another class while maintaining the same regimen of prayers/meditation/training.
That same strictness and ordered lifestyle pushes these classes to Lawful alignments. Lawful being more ordered and orderly, this makes sense.
So yeah.. Mostly flavor.
There's an easy mechanical reason: those classes have lots of front-loaded abilities. Combining paladin2 with monk3 is a very powerful character among his EL5 peers. If you're gonna play that kind of dude, you can't have more levels of paladin or monk, you're gonna have to be a fighter or whatnot.
I have to disagree. First, a human can choose one class (between monk & paladin) and then switch to another whenever they wish (albeit without the option of switching back).
It's definitely flavor for the classes -- they're based on stereotypes that demand total dedication. The lawful requirement is likewise in line with the inpirations for the classes.
Personally I wouldn't get queasy about relaxing their multiclassing restrictions, if that's what floats your boat. As far as the alignment restrictions go, while I might relax a little on paladins, I think you'd be straying far afield for the monk class.
My two cents.
Regards :)