Thanks for all the great ideas guys. Lots for me to think about and talk with my group about.
I think I'm going to go ahead and let them have resurrections for the time being, with no penalties to them, except the ones listed in the spells. Still, people who can cast the spells will be very rare.
Also: I thought Wash's death in Serenity was very unnecessary. To have a great character like him killed so suddenly and for no real reason seemed like a big rip-off to me.
I die as well as I live.
I could certainly tolerate a heroic and meaningful death. A meaningless death in the middle of an adventure because of a poor die roll just seems...well...meaningless. I just do not think 'fear of death' makes the game more exciting. I should note that I am not trying to play a game with winners and loosers, I am trying to create an interesting story. If you tell me I have to be super extra special careful because if I do anything 'stupid' my character could end up dead...well...I am just not going to put any effort into my character. That just hurts the game in my opinion.
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To a degree, death does add to the excitement of the game though.
Some of my groups best sessions are when they hovered on death's door throughout it. I'm a "Let the dice fall where they may." type DM and do all of my combat rolling in the open for all the players to see.
One session we had over a year ago is still talked about by my group because they hovered on the brink of a TPK several times. We where playing a Dragonlance game using the Age of Mortals modules. They had infiltrated a Dark Knight stronghold and the alarm was eventually tripped. A series of running battles in order to snatch and grab an artifact was underway.
All of the dice where thrown in the open, the PC's faced catastrophic defeat at every corner. The showdown with one of the head knights almost TPK'd the party. They finished the encounter with around 5hps each. Had the fighter not won initiative and scored a crit that round,she would have likely died and the rest of the party would have followed shortly afterwards. The table was loud as hell that night with shouts of excitement and groans of disgust. The players still high-five when dicussing that session. Without the fear of death, I seriously doubt it would have been as exciting.
Sure, you can have some excellent sessions without the fear of death. but I think the knowledge that the next swing of the sword can snuff your character out? That bumps it up a notch.
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Meh, I thought Wash was funny, but never really liked him. He was too one-dimensional, just the funny guy. Everyone else had a fully fleshed out character by the fourth episode. When he died, I litterally said "Eh, so what?". When Book died, I shouted "NO!", in quite the Empire Strikes Back fashion.
Hehe, I couldn't resist making this alias. :D
(Cato Novus)
To a degree, death does add to the excitement of the game though.
Some of my groups best sessions are when they hovered on death's door throughout it. I'm a "Let the dice fall where they may." type DM and do all of my combat rolling in the open for all the players to see.
One session we had over a year ago is still talked about by my group because they hovered on the brink of a TPK several times. We where playing a Dragonlance game using the Age of Mortals modules. They had infiltrated a Dark Knight stronghold and the alarm was eventually tripped. A series of running battles in order to snatch and grab an artifact was underway.
All of the dice where thrown in the open, the PC's faced catastrophic defeat at every corner. The showdown with one of the head knights almost TPK'd the party. They finished the encounter with around 5hps each. Had the fighter not won initiative and scored a crit that round,she would have likely died and the rest of the party would have followed shortly afterwards. The table was loud as hell that night with shouts of excitement and groans of disgust. The players still high-five when dicussing that session. Without the fear of death, I seriously doubt it would have been as exciting.
Sure, you can have some excellent sessions without the fear of death. but I think the knowledge that the next swing of the sword can snuff your character out? That bumps it up a notch.
I think what you are describing isn't so much death, as it is fear of failure. If the PCs never fear that they might fail, then I would say that is the real problem.
You guys are... <sniff> you're just a bunch of big death haters! There, I said it! Death haters! Why don't you go looooove life, you freaks, and leave us treasurers of ultimate darkness alone?!
::cries into his plush teddy corpse::
See what happens when your mother sings you lullabies to sleep instead of reading the obits in a dulcet bedside whisper like normal parents do? You turn out like these weirdos with their, "Ouch, death really hurts," and their, "I it hate when those I love pass on." Kids today.
::scoops up his grave dirt-encrusted sickle and dons an ebon cowl::
Ah, well... back to work.
You guys are... <sniff> you're just a bunch of big death haters! There, I said it! Death haters! Why don't you go looooove life, you freaks, and leave us treasurers of ultimate darkness alone?!
::cries into his plush teddy corpse::
Don't worry, jade, they just don't understand. Neither do you. You have much to learn, little chipmunk.
*Pats little doggy*Oh, blast it! There goes my finger of death trigger again...
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I think what you are describing isn't so much death, as it is fear of failure. If the PCs never fear that they might fail, then I would say that is the real problem.
Death is the failure they fear. Not, running away and failing to accomplish the goal.
When I'm a player, if I know that the DM isn't likely to allow us to die, it ruins the game for me. My players are the same way.
But, I don't fault other folks their ways of doing things. Its all good as long as the players are having a good time.
I think what you are describing isn't so much death, as it is fear of failure. If the PCs never fear that they might fail, then I would say that is the real problem.Death is the failure they fear. Not, running away and failing to accomplish the goal.
When I'm a player, if I know that the DM isn't likely to allow us to die, it ruins the game for me. My players are the same way.
But, I don't fault other folks their ways of doing things. Its all good as long as the players are having a good time.
Don't call it death. Call it maximal xp loss.
I see your point. A tactical combat simulation without threat of death would be boring.