WoTC has two new books out - Exemplars of Evil and Elder Evils. The later has a chapter specifically focused on Kyuss/The Worm that Walks. Is anyone using any of this material to alter/modify the AoW campaign? If so - I'd be interested in hearing about it. Thanks!
|
Overall, the plot is somewhat weak since its entirety is found on 2-3 pages, but Elder Evils and its Worm that Walks campaign adds some rather decent statblocks. Not too sure what to think of Wormcrawl Island. If used with Spire of Long Shadows, it makes for a decent area surrounding Kuluth-Mar. It can also be used for an epic post-Age of Worms adventure wherein Kyuss tries to make another comeback. As for Edwin Tolstoff, the villain who's behind Kyuss' return, I don't see how he could be used with the adventure path other than as a one-shot villain, but I haven't read Exemplars of Evil which has a chapter on the Tolstoff family. I was thinking of adding the Herald of Kyuss into play, since avolakias are just awesome. One thing I've noticed about the Worm that Walks campaign, as opposed to the Age of Worms adventure path, is how there's a greater emphasis on vermin than undead, as evidenced by the use of monstrous centipedes, centipede swarms, purple worms, remorhazes, leechwalkers, and the century worm. Personally, I think the adventure path could use a few more vermin encounters. I would also like to make use of the Scion of Kyuss (evolved advanced ulgurstasta) and possibly even the blessed spawns of Kyuss (12 HD spawn). Certain villains, such as a recurring Faceless One, could become lesser 'worms that walk.'
Overall, the plot is somewhat weak since its entirety is found on 2-3 pages, but Elder Evils and its Worm that Walks campaign adds some rather decent statblocks. Not too sure what to think of Wormcrawl Island. If used with Spire of Long Shadows, it makes for a decent area surrounding Kuluth-Mar. It can also be used for an epic post-Age of Worms adventure wherein Kyuss tries to make another comeback. As for Edwin Tolstoff, the villain who's behind Kyuss' return, I don't see how he could be used with the adventure path other than as a one-shot villain, but I haven't read Exemplars of Evil which has a chapter on the Tolstoff family. I was thinking of adding the Herald of Kyuss into play, since avolakias are just awesome. One thing I've noticed about the Worm that Walks campaign, as opposed to the Age of Worms adventure path, is how there's a greater emphasis on vermin than undead, as evidenced by the use of monstrous centipedes, centipede swarms, purple worms, remorhazes, leechwalkers, and the century worm. Personally, I think the adventure path could use a few more vermin encounters. I would also like to make use of the Scion of Kyuss (evolved advanced ulgurstasta) and possibly even the blessed spawns of Kyuss (12 HD spawn). Certain villains, such as a recurring Faceless One, could become lesser 'worms that walk.'
Well, what I was thinking was, the Faceless One could be Edwin Tolstoff. Since he needs to die in order to free the Ebon Aspect, probably a simulacrum of the same. The reason he's so willing to die is because he's filled with shame of what his true body has become.
In order to keep it more in line with the Age of Worms plot, Tolstoff could replace Darl Quethos - switching out the Hand of Vecna for some other high-end magic item, like the Well of Many Worlds. He's trying to reach the Library of Last Resort to keep anyone from finding Dragotha's phylactery.
Alternatively, Tolstoff could appear more as written, as a foil stalking the PCs through the Tomb of Horrors, trying to steal the Sphere of Annihilation so that the PCs don't get it instead.
...also, I would have liked the lesser worm that walks template to actually have been in the book, rather than just Tolstoff as the example. The epic w-t-w in the Epic Level Handbook is cool... but too powerful for most campaigns and has some design issues.
Worm That Walks:
Weak - plotline, statblock
Cool - feats, signs
The Age of Worms plotline is loads better than anything in Elder Evils' plot of how the Worm That Walks comes to enter the world again. And he's only like a CR 16 critter. But the signs are great for setting a tone of "hey-the-world's-really-ending" and the feats are great to give nasty NPCs.
I was thinking more of merging the original AoW plotline with the new material. For example, The Faceless One is actually a lesser worm-that-walks cleric of Kyuss - but the Ebon Triad Cultists don't know this, he's just manipulating them. Edwin Tolstoff replaces Raknian's role in Champian's Games. Edwin is a wealthy noble, in charge of the games, and Raknian is just his hired muscle. Or else, Edwin replaces Bozal. The PCs would need to meet Edwin somehow before hand, then be surprised when they discover he's the evil cleric behind Raknian's scheme. Edwin's sister could replace Lashana. Mother Maggot is the Herald of Kyuss. Wormcrawl Island could be used as the location of Kulath-Mar, or else it could replace Wormcrawl canyon. Etc, etc, etc...
This stuff is all gonna be supplemental in my Age of Worms game... with the exception of anathemic properties on Kyuss, these guys are kind of cake-walks compared to the heavy hitters in the final two modules. What I do like are the undead in the "Atropus" section, some real, heavy hitters that would be good to drop into Alhaster as rampaging undead. Oh, and I'll probably have the Hideous Leechwalkers and Century Worms as good random encounters in the Wormcrawl...and I do like having another classed Avolakia statted up; a good red herring for the bad guys to sacrifice in Alhaster to gain the heroes' trust.
and I do like having another classed Avolakia statted up; a good red herring for the bad guys to sacrifice in Alhaster to gain the heroes' trust.
You should note, though, the differential of CRs. The Herald of Kyuss apparently treats its cleric levels as associated, so they added on at a rate of 1 CR per level. The avolakia cultists in Into the Wormcrawl Fissure, and their ghosts in Dawn of a New Age, treat their cleric levels as non-associated, at 1 CR per 2 levels.
So, to compensate, either give the Herald a bunch more cleric levels, or some unique special abilities. Or restat all of the rank-and-file avolakia cultists.
You should note, though, the differential of CRs. The Herald of Kyuss apparently treats its cleric levels as associated, so they added on at a rate of 1 CR per level. The avolakia cultists in Into the Wormcrawl Fissure, and their ghosts in Dawn of a New Age, treat their cleric levels as non-associated, at 1 CR per 2 levels.
So, to compensate, either give the Herald a bunch more cleric levels, or some unique special abilities. Or restat all of the rank-and-file avolakia cultists.
Oh, I definitely consider this guy only a CR 14, not an 18 as it lists him. Honestly other than the buffs, the Cleric levels don't do that much and should hardly be considered an associated class. I think Mother Maggot is definitely a tougher nut to crack, and her CR reflects this a lot better.
WoTC has two new books out - Exemplars of Evil and Elder Evils. The later has a chapter specifically focused on Kyuss/The Worm that Walks. Is anyone using any of this material to alter/modify the AoW campaign? If so - I'd be interested in hearing about it. Thanks!
I the dampaign I DM Mayor Neff has been thrown in jail and the new Mayor will be a young man named Edwin Tilgast, Zelch Tilgast's good for nothing son. Eventually he will go by his Mother's maiden named Tolstoff.
pROBABLY MY TWO FAVORITE BOOKS. The re-tooled vile feats were nice, but all the epic level stuff was even better. I have merged the Exemplars/elder Tolstoffs story into my AoW campaign. The only drawback in the elder evils is that they took a very "light" approach to each one. Of course each of these chapters IS in essence a VERY boiled down AP in it's own right.
Exemplars was great because each chapter was a level appropriate full-on side trek in and of itself. I am using the first chapter as a not-so-random encounter, with human bane capturing peeps from all around the area to sell to the ebon triad. The price is lower than usual because he insists on watching the sacrifices personally as part of his payment.
Also, since there is a tenuous link to the book of vile darkness here, I have found that Vashar mercenaries fit in extremely well as an unconventional support network. After all, even a typically NE human offshoot race would be happy to assist if it prevented a GOD from being born.
|
I'm going to be mixing both of them and Expediton to the Ruins of Greyhawk into my campaign.
We just finished TFoE, and the 4 PC party was feeling pretty overwhelmed. Luckily they found a "helpful" whisper gnome rogue imprisoned by the Vecna worshipers who joined the party. He said he was looking for magic and nobody really asked him what kind of magic or what for. At the end of BWK, I'm going to add a few youngish black dragon offspring of Ilthane with a mini dragon horde where the gnome will find what he needs to free his master. Then things will get interesting.
|
pROBABLY MY TWO FAVORITE BOOKS. The re-tooled vile feats were nice, but all the epic level stuff was even better. I have merged the Exemplars/elder Tolstoffs story into my AoW campaign. The only drawback in the elder evils is that they took a very "light" approach to each one. Of course each of these chapters IS in essence a VERY boiled down AP in it's own right.
It isn't a boiled down AP, it's a "Here's a cheap plot we rolled up on a random generator and some scanty level-related ideas, along with a delve for the EPIC FIGHT!!!1!!11 KEWL OR WUT!?!?" 'Light' doesn't even *start* to touch upon what they decided to not do in terms of usable material.
no reason to be rude. I like the subject matter. The format and amount of material was just that, light. Otherwise it was decent to read, and useful in it's way for my purposes. I would reccommend perusing it first before you go and buy it, but I wasn't terribly disappointed. They were better than tome of battle and book of 9 swords.
pROBABLY MY TWO FAVORITE BOOKS. The re-tooled vile feats were nice, but all the epic level stuff was even better. I have merged the Exemplars/elder Tolstoffs story into my AoW campaign. The only drawback in the elder evils is that they took a very "light" approach to each one. Of course each of these chapters IS in essence a VERY boiled down AP in it's own right.It isn't a boiled down AP, it's a "Here's a cheap plot we rolled up on a random generator and some scanty level-related ideas, along with a delve for the EPIC FIGHT!!!1!!11 KEWL OR WUT!?!?" 'Light' doesn't even *start* to touch upon what they decided to not do in terms of usable material.
hate to tell you this, but you missed your !!! key a couple of times. Looks like abunch of 111's from here. Just thought you should know.
|
|
no reason to be rude. I like the subject matter. The format and amount of material was just that, light. Otherwise it was decent to read, and useful in it's way for my purposes. I would reccommend perusing it first before you go and buy it, but I wasn't terribly disappointed. They were better than tome of battle and book of 9 swords.
I wasn't being rude. I was making an observation that I, personally, was disgruntled by the treatment of the material, and making a suggestion (which, I admit, could have been phrased better - but the process of remembering my irritation brought it back up again) that others who actually *liked* the book being more Delve-format than anything else chime in with their own reviews of the books to keep my distaste from biasing others who might find them useful.
Incidentally, I believe the Tome of Battle and the Book of Nine Swords are the same thing; and, given reviews that I've had and what little I've read of the book itself, I would have to agree with you. Elder Evils at least avoided being packed with game-breaking mechanics.
hate to tell you this, but you missed your !!! key a couple of times. Looks like abunch of 111's from here. Just thought you should know.
So, are you being sarcastic in turn, or did you actually miss that I was *being* sarcastic there? It is a fairly common thing to insert the number one in place of an exclamation point in this fashion, in this case indicating that whoever did the editorial aspect at WotC prevented the writers (who we know at least some of are quite capable individuals at providing well-thought-out and suitably fleshed-out material) from giving us anything other than a literal bare-bones excuse of a plot and a Delve for the final battle, theoretically designed in such a fashion as to be an Epic Save The World way.
I was not aiming any of it at you. I was not aiming any of it at the people who did their best to write helpful material. My resentment is wholly aimed at WotC, which has both pushed the Delve format, a thing which I greatly dislike, and which has shown itself to be more concerned with pushing books out the door for cash inflow than anything that might serve to actually endear their customer base to them. If you felt that I was, somehow, mocking you, I do apologize.
I, personally, found EE to be less useful than I had hoped, simply because there was too much of the 'example' Evils complete with a suitable Epic Fight in a format that I despise, and not enough material to help people with devising their own unique takes on the subject. Others, such as yourself, undoubtedly find the book quite handy, and appreciate the prebuilt Evils. So be it, because the hobby has enough room for everyone who wants in on it.
|
|
I'll add my 2 cents. I really like Elder Evils. In a way, there may not seem to be that much usable crunch in it, because each chapter is basically a different campaign. Each chapter has a huge, potentially world ending villain or monster (such as an undead planet, a near-continent sized sea monster, and Kyuss himself), some encounters related to that monster, and an outline for how the campaign as a whole should go.
I like this book for two reasons- 1. Many of the monsters are really cool. I like big, crazy, Cthulhu-y monsters. 2. I like the campaign outlines. Sometimes, as a GM, I have a cool idea for the end of a campaign and maybe the start, but getting through the middle is tricky sometimes. I may not use the exact outlines in the book, but I think they'd make good templates for me to build my own campaigns out of. Obviously this is less of an issue if you're running an AP.
Exemplars of Evil, I didn't like as much at first. It does have some cool feats and alternate class features in the beginning, but the rest of the book is a bunch of NPC's and encounters. Usually this isn't really my cup of tea, so I didn't look at it that closely at first. But the Kyuss chapter in Elder Evils refers back to one of the NPC groups from Exemplars of Evil (the Tolstoffs) so I went back and took a better look at it. The Tolstoff chapter is really cool, and I'm going to add them to my AoW campaign. I will flesh out their keep and surrounding lands a bit, as I thought that the mini-adventure was kinda minimal and could use some fleshing out. But the core that's there is really good. I still haven't read the other villians' chapters, but if they're of the same quality as the Tolstoffs' then they'll be good too.
no reason to be rude. I like the subject matter. The format and amount of material was just that, light. Otherwise it was decent to read, and useful in it's way for my purposes. I would reccommend perusing it first before you go and buy it, but I wasn't terribly disappointed. They were better than tome of battle and book of 9 swords.I wasn't being rude. I was making an observation that I, personally, was disgruntled by the treatment of the material, and making a suggestion (which, I admit, could have been phrased better - but the process of remembering my irritation brought it back up again) that others who actually *liked* the book being more Delve-format than anything else chime in with their own reviews of the books to keep my distaste from biasing others who might find them useful.
Incidentally, I believe the Tome of Battle and the Book of Nine Swords are the same thing; and, given reviews that I've had and what little I've read of the book itself, I would have to agree with you. Elder Evils at least avoided being packed with game-breaking mechanics.
hate to tell you this, but you missed your !!! key a couple of times. Looks like abunch of 111's from here. Just thought you should know.So, are you being sarcastic in turn, or did you actually miss that I was *being* sarcastic there? It is a fairly common thing to insert the number one in place of an exclamation point in this fashion, in this case indicating that whoever did the editorial aspect at WotC prevented the writers (who we know at least some of are quite capable individuals at providing well-thought-out and suitably fleshed-out material) from giving us anything other than a literal bare-bones excuse of a plot and a Delve for the final battle, theoretically designed in such a fashion as to be an Epic Save The World way.
I was not aiming any of it at you. I was not aiming any of it at the people who did their best to write helpful material. My resentment is wholly aimed at...
All is forgiven. I got my feathers ruffled a tad easily too. So...I apologize for being sarcastic about your sarcasm. lol.
I actually agree completely. I was looking forward to Expedition to undermountain for months. I waited and waited then I bought it. And returned it the next day. The fluff was cool. The crunch sucked. But more than anything, I DESPISED the format. All of the expedition books were formatted like that and they were all returned to my FLGS the next day.
I decided to invest the time to update my 2E ruins of the undermountain instead. Talk about an epic dungeon crawl!
In any event. No harm no foul, and your not flying off the rocker is greatly appreciated. LONG LIVE 3.5!!!...at least until the duct tape wear out.
|
|
I actually agree completely. I was looking forward to Expedition to undermountain for months. I waited and waited then I bought it. And returned it the next day. The fluff was cool. The crunch sucked. But more than anything, I DESPISED the format. All of the expedition books were formatted like that and they were all returned to my FLGS the next day.
Yeah, the way they handled Undermountain was an *utter* failure. Forget the much-touted World's Largest Dungeon, Undermountain had more style and class than the WLD could hope to scrape up in a decade of play. It was my first exposure to the Delve format, and at first I just could not puzzle out what the hell they were doing.
And they killed Halaster. The man with a hundred million clones and contingencies was destroyed just to give the party an excuse to go after this thing. Mix it in with the 'unknown threat' now that they've revealed the Points of Light idea and the so-called Spellplague, and it *feels* like EtU was a way to slip in a 'subtle hint' so they'd be able to claim it wasn't totally out of the blue. I don't mean to turn this into an anti-4e event, but... Killing Halaster? Come on, to those of us who know about Undermountain Halaster may actually be a more important and cooler FR iconic than Elminster or the bloody drow ranger could ever *hope* to be. Elminster survives because he sleeps with a goddess of magic. The elf is just a twink. Halaster survives because he prepares, dammit. He's got all the angles covered. You can't off Halaster like that, it's just *wrong*.
I actually agree completely. I was looking forward to Expedition to undermountain for months. I waited and waited then I bought it. And returned it the next day. The fluff was cool. The crunch sucked. But more than anything, I DESPISED the format. All of the expedition books were formatted like that and they were all returned to my FLGS the next day.Yeah, the way they handled Undermountain was an *utter* failure. Forget the much-touted World's Largest Dungeon, Undermountain had more style and class than the WLD could hope to scrape up in a decade of play. It was my first exposure to the Delve format, and at first I just could not puzzle out what the hell they were doing.
And they killed Halaster. The man with a hundred million clones and contingencies was destroyed just to give the party an excuse to go after this thing. Mix it in with the 'unknown threat' now that they've revealed the Points of Light idea and the so-called Spellplague, and it *feels* like EtU was a way to slip in a 'subtle hint' so they'd be able to claim it wasn't totally out of the blue. I don't mean to turn this into an anti-4e event, but... Killing Halaster? Come on, to those of us who know about Undermountain Halaster may actually be a more important and cooler FR iconic than Elminster or the bloody drow ranger could ever *hope* to be. Elminster survives because he sleeps with a goddess of magic. The elf is just a twink. Halaster survives because he prepares, dammit. He's got all the angles covered. You can't off Halaster like that, it's just *wrong*.
My primary disappointment with Undermountain was that Halaster was offed *offstage*. That's a major event in history that you don't even get to see!
On topic now.
Elder Evils was a surprisingly decent read. I'm not fond of the Delve format myself though I can see the value of it for newer DMs. But the fluff actually proved interesting. I'm particularly fond of Atropus, myself. Too bad I won't get to use it unless I come out of DM-retirement, nor play with it significantly. I'd recommend the book for reading material alone, even if the different world-ending monsters don't get put to use.
|
|
My primary disappointment with Undermountain was that Halaster was offed *offstage*. That's a major event in history that you don't even get to see!
On topic now.
Elder Evils was a surprisingly decent read. I'm not fond of the Delve format myself though I can see the value of it for newer DMs. But the fluff actually proved interesting.
Yeah, that was a really irritating part. The closest you get to dealing with Halaster is a phantasmal echo, just in case the players can't puzzle out what to do? Pathetic. Halaster deserved better than that.
As far as the fluff... I suppose. Some of it could be useful, but there was also a bunch of repeated drek that felt like useless padding, when they could've either fleshed out the bare-bones plots more, or provided more material in the vein of the opening chapter, helping people devise their own twisted abominations to cause havoc with.
Material to produce other world-wrecking abominations would have helped, true. But I didn't mind the bare-bones nature of the campaign arcs. I would have liked to see more information on the cults that might follow some of these monstrosities.
well, to heck with WotC, he lives! I mean, clone and contingency are pretty specific with no allowances for magical machine gone awry. They painted themselves into a bit of an inconvenient corner with that one, and you'll notice they didn't even bother to try and explain any of that.
Typical of the laziness and poor quality of some of their latest offerings. Typos, bad stat blocks and all. But the fluff...now the fluff is decent enough in it's own right most of the time.
Liked Ragnorra myself. Only I call her JENOVA.
|
|
well, to heck with WotC, he lives! I mean, clone and contingency are pretty specific with no allowances for magical machine gone awry. They painted themselves into a bit of an inconvenient corner with that one, and you'll notice they didn't even bother to try and explain any of that.
My guess is the one who did the writing on that plot twist likely never actually had anything to do with the Undermountain boxed sets and the material on Halaster - kind of typical of the material they've released where the present material starkly defies all kinds of former material. I halfway feel like FR has become the fantasy version of Star Trek or the Marvel and DC comic worlds - retconned so many times there's nothing left to hang anything on.
Liked Ragnorra myself. Only I call her JENOVA.
Bahaha! You win the thread with that one. I hadn't noticed, but you're right, there is a disturbing similarity.
Liked Ragnorra myself. Only I call her JENOVA.
LOL!
Does that make her herald Sephiroth? If so, I might need to go play an anti-Ragnorra campaign. I shall play a spiky-haired blonde guy with a REALLY big sword and the social skills of a piece of lint . . . .
|
|
Liked Ragnorra myself. Only I call her JENOVA.LOL!
Does that make her herald Sephiroth? If so, I might need to go play an anti-Ragnorra campaign. I shall play a spiky-haired blonde guy with a REALLY big sword and the social skills of a piece of lint . . . .
Don't forget the amnesia, self-delusional belief of being an Elite Guardsman when he was really just a Mook-type rent-a-soldier, and the childhood friend who has a crush on him when he's pining for someone who ends up dead really quickly! It just wouldn't be Cloud without the angst and woe, after all.
Although I'm now tempted to better flesh-out Ragnorra now and use her in a game like this... Muhuhahaha! (Maybe a PbP game...)
|
|
I ran the wormy Tolstoff chapter from Exemplars of Evil last week. I put it in between Blackwall Keep and Hall of Harsh Reflections. It went really well. It's a cool mini-adventure with cool characters. There was a lot more roleplaying potential to Irina than I took advantage of, but I didn't know I was going to use the book until it was too late to put her in previous adventures. I haven't figured out when I'll bring back Edwin yet, maybe Tomb of Horrors like Elder Evils suggests. Edwin was pretty cool, none of the 7th level party (plus Allustan) could touch him. They knew it was time to flee when the party cleric was very nearly disintegrated (I didn't pull that on them for a few rounds, first he animated the dead into zombies). I added some encounters to the outside of the castle- ghouls+ghast and gravehounds (MiniHB); which fit the feel of the place well but weren't powerful enough to challenge the party.
PS- Draen the wererat whispergnome killed the party evoker with a full attack from hiding, but I probably won't add it to the AoW obituaries as it didn't really happen in the AP. Plus Edwin wormed-to-death the owlbear (from Whispering Cairn) who'd become a party member's companion.