When WotC announced 3E, what was your insider perception of how the community reacted? Were you connected enough to the fans to have good feedback?
Also, four months after the announcement, did you see more and more people being convinced that 3E was something to be excited about, or were there still a lot of doubters?
And finally, at what point did you realize you had a hit on your hands? Was it before release, after release, before or after sales figures were known?
Thanks!
Try consulting this thread for some the the answers you seek, and perhaps a few you didn't know you were seeking.
The Inscrutable,
GGG
Um, I read that Thread when it came out; it doesn't have the answers. Thanks, though, GGG.
In a way it does, and at the same time doesn't.
-Inscrutable
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Okay, I worked at WotC when 3e was released, and a little before.
Certainly, even just days before the release there were still holdouts who ranted at great length about how it was nothing but a money-grab on the part of WotC. People claimed the rules would only be bought in random packs, or that magic items would only be available that way, both because of Magic and Pokemon card sets.
Major executives at other companies were telling us what they polanned to do when 3e was a huge flop. Not IF mind you, but WHEN it was a flop. Retailers often stated they felt this was a brand new game, with no visible links to 2e and thus no reason to heavily order early.
There were signs it was going to be a big hit of course. But WotC had faith in their product long before a single copy sold, and before they had any solid feedback they had a hit.
I don't mean to suggest anyone was wrong about their subjective opions back then. I'm sure a lot of people stayed with 3e, and still see 3e as a souless money grab. But the people within the building, including people like Andy Collins, Rich Baker and James Wyatt, all had a reallove of the game, and I am sure they still do. And yeah, a lot of what they are seeing in terms of 4e hate is going tolook really,really familiar.
I don't intend to bash anyone -- fan or employee or corporation -- with this post. And I don't have any privvy material to share with y'all nowadays-- I haven't been an "insider" at WotC for years. I do believe they think they are doing the right and best thing, and I am certain a fun game is going to come out of their efforts.
Is that the game for you? Or for Paizo? Or for 2.3 million D&D players? I couldn't begin to guess.
But we believed in 3e. We did it forboth love and money. And there was a vocal group who constantly hated on us for it.
Thanks, Owen!
I remember how I felt as a consumer. My concern was that all of my 2E material would be useless. Someone from WotC said, basically, that the fluff would still be usable, but the rules would change - and that was (mostly) accurate. (Planescape fluff works fine with core 3E, for example. Planescape fluff will seemingly NOT work with 4E fluff.)
Also, I remember early on that someone (Peter?) came out and honestly said that in order for the acquisition of the D&D brand to be profitable that WotC would *have* to do a new edition. Since WotC actually, *saved* D&D, it was pretty hard to argue with them.
Once the game was out, though, was the response as overwhelmingly popular (from a sales point of view) as expected?
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Thanks!
I was curious about this because I see the two ed changes to be quite different. It's not just the fluff incompatability, though -- that I think consumers could get over.
Now, in 99-00 I was so incredibly busy I didn't even really know there was a change. I heard about it in conversation once or twice but just that "3E is coming." It was a few months after the 3 core books were out that I even saw them in the store (I was looking for something else) and bought them. All in all, I have no memory of that transition.
But from what you've said, Owen, I think there is a considerable difference now. WotC has killed the mags. Was there anything like that in the switch from 2E to 3E? Did a large number of gamers refuse to buy 3E whether or not the game turned out strong or weak?
-W. E. Ray
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One of my favorite quotes from the 2E -> 3E turnover was that the designers got two types of complaints;
"You changed *everything!*" [gnashing of teeth]
"You didn't change *anything!*" [wailing]
I remember looking at the changes and agreeing with both of those, so I totally got it. So many classes were hugely different (Bard, Monk), and some seemed to have barely changed (Wizard).
And then there was the Sorcerer, which some praised as the second-coming, and others said, 'So, he's just a non-Vancian spellcaster. We've been using a mana point house rule system for 15 years, big freaking deal.'
Some said, 'OMG! Any race can be any class, and all races can multiclass! Dwarven wizards wreck the flavor! The sky! She is falling!' Others said, 'We still have alignments, and some classes (Paladin, Barbarian, Monk) are restricted in alignments? Lame.'
It's amusing this time that they spent six months vociferously denying rumors of an impending 4E, only to confirm it at GenCon.
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It's amusing this time that they spent six months vociferously denying rumors of an impending 4E, only to confirm it at GenCon.
I like the rest of your post too, but thought I'd snip out your last line.
If the timeline we've been given is close to true, there were meetings taking place about 4e with novelists and designers at GenCon '06...