In games I've run, low-level parties tend to get hold of a horse for each member as soon as possible (I pay attention to travel times, weather conditions, and random encounter rates, so it speeds up the game for them and for me; plus, it's good roleplaying from the characters' perspectives). But they typically don't have enough, or don't spend enough, to actually get warhorses. Further, you can bet none of them have ranks in Ride, unless there happens to be a paladin.
So, they'll come up on a fight, usually a random encounter, and dismount as soon as possible. What should happen to the horses, though? I typically describe them as running from the threat and just move them off the map, saying they're a ways away during the fight (but easily reclaimed afterwards). Is that logical? Would the horses wait for their riders at some distance deemed safe? Or would the bolt and it become a whole big deal in and of itself to get them back (perhaps reduced to a few skill checks, but still facing the possibility of wasting in-game time looking for them, or worse, having to continue on foot).
I don't have much experience with real horses, so I'm kind of curious how others would play out this scenario. Does this happen in many other peoples' games, too?
Bolt and take an hour or so to retreive is my opinion. They would stay near people since that is were they are safe (compared to monster infested woods) but they would be nervous and easily startled. And war horses are worth the investment at 1-6th level.
And though players hate lossing their mounts the horses usually would be prime targets for unintelligent predators. Excellent way at low level to show lethality without killing the players (much).
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i am not a horse expert by any stretch, but I would imagine it would vary from horse to horse and all depend on how much personality you wanted to give your horses. Animals are not cars. While they aren't particularly smart each one will react a little different based on its relationship with its owner, its temperament, its heritage, the weather, etc.
Maybe one horse hates rain. When it is raining it won't wander much further than a tree unless actually in danger. At other times it loves to explore.
Perhaps another horse loves to run. You let it go and its away, not matter the situation.
Perhaps another horse has been fed numerous apples by its owner. It will run but it always return to the source of its sweets.
One way to handle it is to have those characters with Animal Empathy or Handle Animal make a check to see if their animal is well trained enough to return. All the other animals run and need tracked.
Which does raise the question - how do your players manage to find their horses after the fight. You are making them make track rolls right?
Personally, if it was me, I would try and tie my horse before leaving it.
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And though players hate lossing their mounts the horses usually would be prime targets for unintelligent predators. Excellent way at low level to show lethality without killing the players (much).
Yeah thats a great point.
Too many tend to think of the horse as not much more than an easy ride. Actually they are quite an investment and losing a couple of them will make caring for them that much more important.
Too many tend to think of the horse as not much more than an easy ride. Actually they are quite an investment and losing a couple of them will make caring for them that much more important.
Or turns them into a liability in the players eyes...
It very much depends on the gaming style of the group. If they just use the road as a means to reach the next dungeon, chasing runaway horses is a waste of game time. Just assume they wait outside the battle scene.
If they like these kind of more or less realistic details, make them chase the beasts. Horses normally would stay together as a herd AFAIK, to have protection in numbers, so you normally would not need to chase them singly. Killing one horse (a mundane predator is sufficient) inconveniences the PCs, but can add to the realism of the game world.
A lance used from horseback can be quite devastating - charging gives double damage (1d8 base) and has a crit mult x3, so a crit during a charge would be 4d8 base damage - nothing to sneeze at. Perhaps use a proverbial Black Knight to show them what horse combat can be.
Stefan
I wasn't refering to punishing them by having the horses attacked by predators. No I was saying horses and other mounts are a convinent meat shield if you don't want to off a PC. After all, your a hungry predator. Would you rather kill a 160 pound man in armour? Or a 1000lb horse?
Thanks for the quick replies! The party is well aware of the power of a mounted warrior: Though it's a specialized maneuver, a paladin with the right feats using a smite from a charging mount with a lance can equal or exceed the damage of a barbarian. I've long wanted to run an adventure which featured a mounted black-knight figure, though. :)
Anyway, returning to horses. No, I wasn't making them roll checks. Previously, it was just something that came up as an afterthought (you try thinking of the action a horse is likely to take while tracking initiative and running a monster on a random encounter after two hours of playing!). The horses were simply removed from the map and assumed to be conveniently waiting near the edge of the battle, just out of harms way but certainly no hassle to retrieve. Even then it didn't sit right with me, but there were other things to attend to in-game and I never thought about the problem at a time when I could address it until today.
I do like the thought of making the horses have personalities, but they are also good things to kill off to impress or hamper PCs (as previously stated by others). In addition to risking the party simply not buying horses, it certainly dissuades them from making any sort of attachment to the animal. Though I enjoy it, not everyone is up for that level of immersion.
I do like the thought of allowing a Handle Animal or Wild Empathy check (DC 15?), with success indicating that the horse stays fairly nearby and is easily retrieved after the fight. Otherwise, it takes an hour of searching to find the animals (perhaps have this time with a DC 12 Surival check [automatic {and perhaps even shorter? 15 minutes?} for anyone with the Track feat]). What type of action should it take to pull this off? It's kind of important, since this issue mainly comes up when there's a bulette or something charging the party and time is a factor.
Yes, tying up the horses before combat is a good idea, but as I just illustrated, that's often a luxury the party doesn't have. That usually comes up during night encounters when they've had time to make camp.
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The good news (for the players): Horses are herd animals, so they'll generally stay together.
The bad news: Horses tend to run away from everything when they're freaked. This most assuredly includes the PCs.
Horses freak easily.
Horses will sometimes not stop until they get home, even if their home is many miles away. (This happened with my wife's horse once; going home involved going through a barbed wire fence and crossing several city streets.)
The thing to remember is that horses are prey animals that use speed as their primary defense mechanism. When things get bad, they run away. It's only through much training that you can overcome this somewhat (hence warhorses).
Further, even warhorses do not react well to the unexpected. Historically, cavalry horses had to be specially trained to deal with armies that used camels or elephants. Now consider the effect of Dire Wolves, Umber Hulks, Dragons, and the like.
Good points. However, trained horses can be had. They can "herd" together away from a battle following a strong lead. I agree that it depends on what direction you want your campaign taking.
This is an interesting idea. I would like to point out that there was a type of military unit in the past in real life that would ride to the battle field dismount and fight on foot: dragoons (and no, that ISN'T a spelling mistake; they were called dragoons). You might want to look into dragoons for some ideas; I would guess that they tied up their horses out of the way of battle THEN assembled to fight. A similar tactic could be used here. Alternately, they'll just have to dismount far enough from the battle so the horses won't be spooked or chase 'em afterwards or get a hireling to handle the horses while they go into battle.
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I generally have the horses herd together in a nearby copse of trees or something. Then, when the battle i over and the weakened party goes to reclaim their mounts....
Ambush!
The horses revolt against their oppressors, bind and gag them then take them to the nearest slave market to trade them for some high quality feed.
My wussy players usually whine but oh well....
In the games that I run, I usually have a player with a paladin or a Ranger or Druid with animal companion/special mount that is capable of keeping the other mounts out of trouble.As an altenative, some of the parties in my games travel with a wagon, wich they engage the brake and tie the horses to the wagon. There are many variations on the number of thing you could do. For example as a player, I currently am playing the ranger for which my handle is bases, and he has leadership so that he has a cohort to handele his dozen or so dogs and his three horses.
Thanks for the quick replies! The party is well aware of the power of a mounted warrior: Though it's a specialized maneuver, a paladin with the right feats using a smite from a charging mount with a lance can equal or exceed the damage of a barbarian. I've long wanted to run an adventure which featured a mounted black-knight figure, though. :)
Anyway, returning to horses. No, I wasn't making them roll checks. Previously, it was just something that came up as an afterthought (you try thinking of the action a horse is likely to take while tracking initiative and running a monster on a random encounter after two hours of playing!). The horses were simply removed from the map and assumed to be conveniently waiting near the edge of the battle, just out of harms way but certainly no hassle to retrieve. Even then it didn't sit right with me, but there were other things to attend to in-game and I never thought about the problem at a time when I could address it until today.
I do like the thought of making the horses have personalities, but they are also good things to kill off to impress or hamper PCs (as previously stated by others). In addition to risking the party simply not buying horses, it certainly dissuades them from making any sort of attachment to the animal. Though I enjoy it, not everyone is up for that level of immersion.
I do like the thought of allowing a Handle Animal or Wild Empathy check (DC 15?), with success indicating that the horse stays fairly nearby and is easily retrieved after the fight. Otherwise, it takes an hour of searching to find the animals (perhaps have this time with a DC 12 Surival check [automatic {and perhaps even shorter? 15 minutes?} for anyone with the Track feat]). What type of action should it take to pull this off? It's kind of important, since this issue mainly comes up when there's a bulette or something charging the party and time is a factor.
Yes, tying up the horses before combat is a good idea, but as I just illustrated, that's often a luxury the party doesn't...
I agree that this can just take up game time that could be better spent actually playing the adventures the DM worked so hard to prepare.
I personally gave my players a "Magic Wagon" that pulled itself so that the whole horses issue could be cut out of the picture, but that does nothing to answer your question Saern...
To make it seem a little realistic, but also not take up too much game time I like the idea of a low difficulty (DC 15) Handle Animal Check to gather up the herd of horses after the battle. If the monsters ambushed the group, or attacked the horses specifically, I would say allowing your players who invested ranks in Survival and characters with Wild Empathy a chance to shine in this moment sounds like a great DM move on your part. It makes the players feel like an otherwise fairly obscure skill has some true value and was worth their time to invest in. In my mind this strikes the right balance between realism and expediting the game.
just my two coppers,
-Roth
I personally gave my players a "Magic Wagon" that pulled itself so that the whole horses issue could be cut out of the picture
Our GM let us have one of those. We used a create magic item thing. We kept losing horses because of attacks while travelling and one of our PCs (a wizard or something) had the Craft Wondrous feat so he allowed us to attempt to make a magical animated wagon. We rolled SO well (A few Nat 20s) that he gave in and gave us a magical animated wagon that was intelligent enough to follow simple orders. One of our PCs used it to catapult him into the mouth of a giant once...
One of the BEST magic items ever.