Personally I like the idea of avoiding some of the Abyssal adventures. They're neat, but I had after reading them felt inclined to save them for when it fit my purposes better. Somehow...they just didn't jive with me, I can't say why exactly.
What I had thoughts on was this: change the Golgismorga adventure around with City of Broken Idols, levelling each appropriately. I like the idea of an expedition inland that results in finding the way down through the big pyramid better than going there on what seems to be a whim after Golgismorga. It also makes I felt for a better climax. How many demon lord envoys do you have to fight to get off this island?
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That's an interesting idea, swapping those two around and adjusting levels. There's always a chance they'd miss the stuff in the tunnels leading to Golismorga from the trogs, but you could play that out in such a way that there's no way back out through the pyramid. The party would then have to follow the route of the pearls, which is nice story-wise.
Would the wastrilith still have the blasphemy if you dropped it a few levels?
Hmmmmm...
Tell the truth I'm almost certain that when we get to a point past about Into the Maw I'll have to basically throw the as-written plotline out the window and just react to the players. High-level PCs just have too many options and too many degrees of freedom of action. Discern Location, Gate, Teleport Without Error, Hindsight, Commune, etc, etc. They're just too hard to shepherd without being obvious and intrusive about it all.
I'll be mining the last three or four STAP installments for locations and NPCs, but there's a real chance the PCs will refuse to deal with demons (Orcus, Azahu, Iggwilv, whoever) at all, so I'll need to have a backup plan in case they decide to look elsewhere for allies. I'm thinking of putting an artifact or two and maybe a bound godling in Scuttlecove Palace, and perhaps (if wizard PCs semi-romance with Lirith gets anywhere) sending them back to do some high-level intriguing among her family and the other nobility across the sea. An adaptation of the adventure with the pit fiend fighter and the fire giant hellfire priestess from #140(?) might work for the former, and perhaps the one with the vengeful shadowdancer and the burnt-down theatre might be ok for the latter, once slightly beefed-up.
Still a fair bit of work to do though. Adventure modules in the 16-20 level range are few and far between...
The Hellfire Mountain adventure is totally awesome, and a really cool way to use Fire Giants, one of my favourite monsters. That's totally a cool idea--why not throw an entirely different group into the mix? I think one of the problems I had with all the demonic organizations is that I have trouble imagining my regular players trusting them as far as they could throw a castle. Even in an 'enemy is my enemy' kind of way. Look at Tyralandi, who casually betrays and involves people just for the fun of it. That's typical demonic thinking as far as I am concerned.
I'm wondering about the blasphemy ability too, but I might throw it in as a special gift from Khala as a one shot or something and maybe give some foreshadowing of it as a reward for pcs who are clever or using their spells wisely. (one of my players is really very good at unexpectedly drop kicking effects, npcs and monsters with shrewd spell use) However I might just scrap it--I'd rather have a story I really like than use every power a monster could have.
I've been sort of thinking of a 'forgotten city' type of adventure on the island actually. I'm trying to think outside the box and so I won't necessarily have every encounter exactly, but I like the idea of the pcs discovering a forgotten city ruled by skinwalkers, finding out that they have a blasphemous rite to create shadow pearls, and then finding out what the source of the material actually is. In a way there would be two ancient decaying cities--one above and one below. The one below being ruled by kopru blasphemies and their diseased troglodyte servants. The other way out is through a half sunken ruined remnant of the city.
BTW I couldn't help but think of "lost Temple of Demogorgon" as well. I mean I have the adventure, I've never used it, and in a way I like it better than some of the post Isle adventures. In a way I like the idea of that as a follow up to the Isle stuff than going to Scuttlecove, much as I like Scuttlecove.
Huh... I'm pretty much in the same boat for adding in additional AP.
Right now I'm finishing off reading Enemy of my Enemies (second last instalment), I noticed in the same magazine it held another adventure for 5th level characters in Sassarine; "The war of the Wield". Right now my group is finishing the Bullywog’s invasion and I’m planning on them running into some talk swords before the SSW (as they are pretty low level for where they are).
Only I'd like to find a way to tie that into the Savage Tide story... I'm having a little trouble figuring out what the Crimson Fleet or Vanthus would use talking swords for... (The Griffon hilted sword recovered from Krakens Cove seems like a good lead in though)
Right now I'm finishing off reading Enemy of my Enemies (second last instalment), I noticed in the same magazine it held another adventure for 5th level characters in Sassarine; "The war of the Wield". Right now my group is finishing the Bullywog’s invasion and I’m planning on them running into some talk swords before the SSW (as they are pretty low level for where they are).
Only I'd like to find a way to tie that into the Savage Tide story... I'm having a little trouble figuring out what the Crimson Fleet or Vanthus would use talking swords for... (The Griffon hilted sword recovered from Krakens Cove seems like a good lead in though)
I ran War of the Wielded as a side-quest after Bullywug's Gambit as well. There's a bit of info on what I did and how I managed it in the War of the Wielded thread on the General Dungeon board.
Basically I introduced a gentleman's club type organisation for experienced warriors called the Hall of Blades. The condition of membership is that you must be a warrior who has killed an opponent who was using a magic weapon without using one yourself. Since Drevoraz and a few of the bullywugs qualify here and the PCs most likely won't have magic weapons, it's more than likely that at least one of the fighter-types will qualify for membership. I had Tolin (who is also a member) sponsor the PCs to join in gratitude for the rescue. Then I had them make a few friends there, one of who happened to be the doomed wielder of Sabrehawk.
Since IMC the wielder of Czarina Valora escaped from the final battle, I'm going to retcon so that Rowyn was the wielder all along. Give the PCs a bit of closure and tie off the plot thread when they finally discover her on the Sea Wyvern.
I've been sort of thinking of a 'forgotten city' type of adventure on the island actually. I'm trying to think outside the box and so I won't necessarily have every encounter exactly, but I like the idea of the pcs discovering a forgotten city ruled by skinwalkers, finding out that they have a blasphemous rite to create shadow pearls, and then finding out what the source of the material actually is. In a way there would be two ancient decaying cities--one above and one below. The one below being ruled by kopru blasphemies and their diseased troglodyte servants. The other way out is through a half sunken ruined remnant of the city.BTW I couldn't help but think of "lost Temple of Demogorgon" as well. I mean I have the adventure, I've never used it, and in a way I like it better than some of the post Isle adventures. In a way I like the idea of that as a follow up to the Isle stuff than going to Scuttlecove, much as I like Scuttlecove.
Actually, I'd been thinking along slightly similar lines. I made a thread here on how I'm going to insert these sort of themes into the STAP. Though there's not really any usable prewritten adventures to make it happen, sadly, so I'll have to do all the grunt work myself...
I've been reading over "War of the Wielded" as well--it might be a cool way to introduce some magical items with a real history, which always I think is way more fun for dm and player alike. Will you keep Rowyn as a wielder then?
Reading over the alternate AP ideas Humble Minion I'm thinking "now THAT is outside the box." The puzzle, the going back in time, all that, is so cool I can barely express my excitement. In a way that would mean if I borrowed some of your ideas I could have my cake and eat it too--not have a living Lost City but rather one lost in time! I'm going to give that serious consideration. It also makes Zotzilaha a more serious character and entity in general.
I have vague ideas too about possibly replaceing Demogorgon with Dagon but I'm still debating that. A sort of fuzzy idea about war between land and sea, as it were, with the dark sea trying to take the land entirely. In part this is because in my game setting I have had Dagon appear with more effectiveness than other demon lords.
I have a six person party so they are a bit behind on XP. We are one session into City of Broken Idols making it to area 3 where the party defeated the main group of skinwalkers. They just made level 13 so I can see them being level 14 at the end of this portion which lines up perfectly for the Lost Temple of Demogorgon.
I've have only skimmed over the adventure briefly but it doesn't seem to fit into the scheme of things very well. It does have a death knight so thats an easy switch but he is looking to be human again. I can see Vanthus doing this but why take Lavinia along (other than for thoughts expressed in the other "mature" thread)?
According to the final battle the death knight isn't supposed to participate. If that is the case Vanthus could already have left for Scuttlecove and the party would find this out once they went thru the temple. I must say I like the awakened baboons and dire apes. I think my players would love that. It does have some trogs as well but it seems kind of smallish for such a high level adventure.
Maybe I am thinking that way because I haven't used a stand alone adventure in years (being spoiled by the APs!). I think it would get the group to 15th level for the start of the Scuttlecove adventure though which is exactly what I'd like. I am just wondering if it would be better to place this area somewhere else on the isle, somewhere off of the isle, or perhaps just work some of the awakened creatures into CoBI along the way.
The entire CoBI adventure is definitely ruled by the kopru, even Khala is part kopru. I don't want to lose that by adding all of these awakened baboons and dire apes, but I'd like to use them somehow. Besides that I still need to decide where to place Scuttlecove in the Realms (the IoD is about a month and a half south of the Jungles of Chult) and was hoping to place the LToD somewhere along the way.
Decisions, decisions. I must say this has been a great campaign so far though. I am still a little unsure about a couple of the last adventures (WoD and EoME) but I like the other two. I cant wait to see the players faces when they find out they have to sail the Sea Wyvern into the Abyss!
So what do people think would be the best route? Should I add the Lost Temple and if so, where do I add it? Opinions much appreciated.
I know what you mean about the wakeportal--it's too cool not to want to use. On the other hand I found Lavinia being threatened/kidnapped again by a dead guy a little irritating.
What I'd like is to focus more intensely on the Isle, which is really what made me interested in the ap to begin with.
The thing is, while I don't like every detail of the ap I love the setting and inspiration of it, that's really why I buy Dungeon anyway is to steal ideas from some really good adventure writers.
Here goes with my totally out of the box path.
1. There is no Honor. Intro to Lavinia et al.
2. Bullywug Gambit. I may substitute goblins for hoppers since I have never depicted them in my game setting, and it doesn't seem that important.
3. Sea Wyvern's Wake. I want to have a more "Conan the Barbarian" type of sea voyage here, with an actual few scenarios from the Conan game (for instance "Shrine of the Black Ones" instead of Tamoachan) Note: if I really just plain have to sink the ship there's always Emraag. I'm kinda saving him for this in fact. (it's important though I think to have pcs who know when to run)
4. Here Be Monsters. The only major change I want is to have a scenario in Mora which I'll take from Dungeon 114.
5. Tides of Dread will not be played out entirely as read. The gaining alliances thing will be, but the second pirate attack won't happen yet. I'm thinking of even doing away with the first one, though I may have the pcs glimpse a 'mystery ship' reconning the colony.
6. The pcs in the midst of gathering allies, helping build up fortifications etc or politicking in Farshore get the message regarding Noltus and head off there. They are led to the City of Broken Idols and the stuff going on there. I like the time travel back idea and I may well use that, at least for a glimpse if not for an outright jaunt.
7. Golgismorga. I may change around some of the demons and stuff to reflect this being a tougher adventure--though it's really tough enough. By defeating the horrors in both cities the pcs will in part have freed Zotzilaha to cleanse the area. (possibly a bit of a climactic rush out as lava pours into the filth of Golgismorga)
8. The pcs will probably go up through the set of tunnels originally intended in the AP, whereupon I will have them discover evidence that at least one shadow pearl was delivered by the trogs to a group of pirates. So the pcs will realize that the attack must already be underway. The pirate fight will then be a bit of both the Farshore attack and the fight in Scuttlecove. It turns out Vanthus betrayed the pirates, using their attack as a ruse to abduct Lavinia. This is only found out once the pirates are defeated and Farshore saved.
9. The pcs must use the captured wakeportal to go after Lavinia and rescue her. In so doing they finally have a standup fight with Vanthus, whom I'll give some powered up demon abilities to but no deathknight. As their defeated opponent wailing is transformed into a larva they see first hand what happens to those who make bargains with demons...and fail.
My game is currently finishing up the Lightless Depths. My players are pretty keen on destroying the source of the shadowpearls, so I don't think I will need to push or prod them to visit Scuttlecove or the central plateau. I pretty much plan to run those two adventures as written, but in whatever order my players decide to tackle them in. However I was thinking of not having Lavinia kidknapped again, which would be the main change to Scuttlecove.
It would also require serious modification to the Into the Maw adventure. I like into the maw. I just don't like the hook for it. I like Enemies of my Enemy a lot, and I like the final adventure. The one I'm really not so sure about is Well's of Darkness.
I'm thinking that at the end of Scuttlecove they will learn the pearls have been distributed. I had been thinking after that they might go to Greyhawk and report these disoveries to the circle of eight and seek advice on how to proceed. At that point Mordenkeinan might direct them to Maure castle as a place to learn moe about their demonic foes, and search for Eli Tomorast. Or perhaps Malcanthet might step in and try to manipulate the PCs.
I think by the time Broken Idols is done they will want a change from the Isle of Dread, but 4 adventures in the Abyss might be a bit too much for them.
I haven't really worked out the details on any of this yet.
I like into the Maw too and I agree with your thoughts on it. I'm not so much concerned about hooks to go to Scuttlecove or City of Broken Idols as I'm concerned about putting together a story I really enjoy. :)
Unfortunately, we got to "Tides of Dread" and my group finished... well, my fault, I closed the shop, but what can ya do?
I had a Knight/Cleric/Knight of the Chalice who was playing "good" pretty well, I didn't want to just push him through the last few adventures, so I was going to make some changes (spoilered).
* Wells of Darkness
* Enemy of My Enemy
* Prince of Demons
Paladin, this is actually a good example of why a particular campaign can al most inevitably be tailored to the group. I have a good group too and I doubt they'll even want to align with demon lords. While some may have a beef with what they call railroading I just see it as structure you can lose or use as you wish.
Paladin, this is actually a good example of why a particular campaign can al most inevitably be tailored to the group. I have a good group too and I doubt they'll even want to align with demon lords. While some may have a beef with what they call railroading I just see it as structure you can lose or use as you wish.
Why thank you, MrFish.
Has anyone found a good replacement adventure for City of Broken Idols? For some reasons I don't like it that much, although it has some nice elements.
Lost Temple of Demogorgon is in the right level range but otherwise doesn't really fit nicely. I couldn't find an adventure in Dungeon that does fit well (although I don't have pre-3rd edition issues)
If anyone knows of a good replacement adventure (from older Dungeon magazines or other sources) please let me know.
What don't you like about it? If you could narrow it down a little more I might be able to help.
What don't you like about it? If you could narrow it down a little more I might be able to help.
I don't like large dungeons and my players hate them.
The Pelorian camp sounded great in the synopsis but it thought it would have a lot more roleplaying potential than it actually has.
I love the giant crocodile, Khala himself and some of the other encounters in the dungeon (the flesh jelly comes to mind). But there is too much hacking away at skinwalkers and other beasties for my taste. It was a great idea to include a powerful magic item (the bow) but it seems kinda random.
I don't think it is bad or unplayable, it's just not what I like. I'd wish for some interesting characters, a unique, preferably not olman dungeon that is much smaller. And there could be more "story" in the mix.
The basic plotline shouldn't change that much though - The players have to defeat the master of the pearl's production.
I'd kind of like City of Broken Idols to be different too as I've said above. What I'm actually thinking of from time to time is a real city, albeit with a dwindling population, who seem like decent people until you see their unholy rites and their devotion to their skinchanger priesthood.