Did anyone else almost have a TPK with that Eye of the Deep in area 11 of the Crimson Fleet base?
Only one of my PCs made the DC 34 save not to be stunned, and it can use that bility at will. wow!
At least one of my PCs was resourceful and summoned a celestial baleen whale in the same tank as the EotD
I can't wait for this fight! I went and did the math on that save DC, and it's totally legit. (In fact, I think his CR is actually one or two higher than what it should be! I probably missed accounting for size...) I'm sure it will challenge most parties, as most encounters in the AP do not appear to focus so notably on a particular ability of a creature.
As deadly as it is, if you think your party can't handle it, change it. No point in annihilating your players over an enemy of little contextual meaning...wait for Cold Captain Wyther or the orlath for that!
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He does look extremely nasty. All he has to do is be within 5' of someone and use all 3 eyes. If the PC 5' away gets paralyzed, he can still move up and coup de grace, since all the eyes are free actions.
One possible way to beat him is for a druid to turn into a plant (shambling mound fits the bill). Plants are immune to stunning and paralysis, and critical hits, just in case :) I guess an elemental would work, too - more pummel factor (although the PHB says a druid in elemental form still retains the humanoid subtype, so I'm not sure how that is ruled). Blindness is still a problem, though.
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how it went for me:
Z (with touchsight) sees that there is no floor inside the house, communicates that to everyone.
Warmage burns house down with acid-subbed fire-spell.
surprise, surprise, the floor (with dead body) is still perfectly fine and dandy.
Z then gets in range to see huge round monster, melee guys move in
init, some people go first, including the warblade who has greater crystal of aquatic action, charges, does damage, gets hit by AoO (gave him combat reflexes instead of iron will), has ring of FoM.
When monster goes, stuns about half the party (ranger, warblade, cleric, Z, wizard), leaving warmage, ardent, bow-ranger, monk capable of actions.
some damage spells cast, arrows shot ineffectively through the water, monk enlarges, moves to engage.
on the 2nd AoO from using a ranged attack in threatened area, monk rolls 20/20/19, doing a whole bunch of damage, and the eye crit fails his save vs. massive damage.
basically, he tore off his one eyestalk, then punched through his central eye and tore it out entirely.
-the hamster
Man.. If not for us Astral Projecting into the base we surely would have experieneced TPK ourselves. That thing is just awful, especially when you're fighting it and a bunch of crimson fleet thugs at the same time.(Even low level rogues can deal decent sneak attack damage against stunned PCs) My 17th level uber-powerful Archmage found all of his tricks to be for naught when confronted by the monster; I spent the whole fight staring glassy eyed at its central eye while my Hell-bred paladin cohort was ripped to pieces. I love monsters when they put the fear of total-party-honage into me. Good job Mr. Pett!
there was an angry post about that encounter a while back - TPK (or very nearly so) , if I recall correctly.
So it has happened - and that has prompted me to remove this entire encounter from SoS. The whole of it premise is silly and rather contrived anyway, and I always personally envisioned the EotD as a Deep Sea predator, not something paddling around contendly in a swampy mangroove pool.
Once my players will get around to that part of the STAP, it will be "Bring on the Chuul" or something even more Lovecraftian.
Btw -hamster, what do you mean by "touchsight" ?
I guess an elemental would work, too - more pummel factor (although the PHB says a druid in elemental form still retains the humanoid subtype, so I'm not sure how that is ruled). Blindness is still a problem, though.
easily, "humanoid" is "humanoid", not a "plant". same goes for "elemental". Polymorph subschool spells or powers do not change the type of entity one originally is. It would even lead to deep absurdity, as "plants" cannot be polymorphed and are immune to the effect... which would present a conundrum - a druid could change into a plant, but not out of it again, if one did actually (despite all rules to the contrary) apply the plant template..... yeah, right !
Save or be stunned on a fail (pretty likely at DC 34... -hamster's boys must really have been incredibly lucky ).
After that the druid is like reverse tofu... looks like a plant but tastes like meat...
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there was an angry post about that encounter a while back - TPK (or very nearly so) , if I recall correctly.
So it has happened - and that has prompted me to remove this entire encounter from SoS. The whole of it premise is silly and rather contrived anyway, and I always personally envisioned the EotD as a Deep Sea predator, not something paddling around contendly in a swampy mangroove pool.
Once my players will get around to that part of the STAP, it will be "Bring on the Chuul" or something even more Lovecraftian.
Btw -hamster, what do you mean by "touchsight" ?
Touchsight
Level: Psion/wilder 3
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal; see text
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Power Points: 5
You generate a subtle telekinetic field of mental contact, allowing you to “feel” your surroundings even in total darkness or when your sight would otherwise be obscured by your physical environment. Your touchsight field emanates from you out to 60 feet. You ignore invisibility, darkness, and concealment, though you must have line of effect to a creature or an object to discern it. You do not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures; you can detect and pinpoint all creatures within 60 feet. In many circumstances, comparing your regular senses to what you learn with touchsight is enough to tell you the difference between visible, invisible, hiding, and concealed creatures.
Augment
For every 2 additional power points you spend, the radius of your touchsight field increases by 10 feet.
basically, detection field which does not rely on sight....
detection/maneuverability/communications seem to be the most common things we focus on in our group, at least when it comes to magic/psionics
oh yeah, and the monk was the only one to actually save...and he is a dwarven drunken master w/ great fortitude and high con. something like +22 or 24 on his fort save, IIRC.
the others were out of the 60' range of the flash
-the hamster
ah, thanks. Not using psionics around here, a can of too many worms.
Although I wonder if "touchsight" would work through the walls of a shed (LoS ?), or discern an illusion.
Well not my can of worms, luckily enough
There are many ways to counter the DC34 flash.
Closing your eyes is a simple expedient, although it results in a 50% miss chance and loss of line of sight for the casters. The ability does not affect sightless creatures, and if you are temporarily and/or voluntarily sightless you are still sightless.
The blindness lasts twice as long as the stun, so the monster can basically never re-apply the stun effect, which is the real killer. Anybody who doesn't have a Ring of Freedom of Movement by this point presumably has some other reason not to be worried about paralysis.
Long-range strikers can and should hang back while the rogue-type does the explorations. The area is not an enclosed dungeon; there is unlimited space to work with and PCs should use it. Even melee PCs can hang 60ft back and still charge on their first turn, which they probably want to do anyway.
Many summoned or created minions are immune to stun effects. If your cleric or wizard never uses Planar Ally/Binding spells to call in elemental bodyguards when you're assaulting the headquarters of Demogorgon's personal prime material fleet, perhaps it would be a good time to start. Likewise, plant, construct, and undead minions will keep the monster off you long enough to recover from the stun.
An alpha strike from the entire party can blast the solitary monster to smithereens before it even gets a turn. No matter how beefy it is, it has a limited pool of hp and only has to fail one save and it is dead.
Ultimately, it looks like this is a bit of a lop-sided monster. If your players optimize their PCs for one particular strategy and never consider altering their modus operandi when the situation calls for something different, then they'll have trouble.
Also, the TPK a couple weeks ago featured a questionable DM rules call involving the PCs rendered unable to see due to the "blindness" effect of the flash nevertheless being ruled vulnerable to the stunning of additional flashes, even though there's only one status effect in the book that describes the inability to see.
well, the problem I see with the encounter is
a) It's an almost surefire way to alarm the entire hideout, with major optical effects and likely a building going up in flames/blasted to pieces.. Not to mention sound effects etc.
Now, this being on the outskirts of the hideout; I somehow believe the players would want to avoid that. And it is located on the "sneak up" side of the hideout, where the jungle with its foliage comes really close. And there really is hardly any way to know of it beforehand, except by powerful magical reconnaissance
And unless the group uses ethereal or astral surveillance, their scout(s) will be in a very dire strait if he/she/it enters said shed... flash, boom... munch ?
b) The Eye is simply....not the type of monster to hang out with the Crimson Fleet, whatever the backstory. Basically the whole setup IMHO ignores the self-esteem, mindset, urges and natural habitat of an Eye of the Deep for a cheap surprise effect. YMMV
@koboldlord
While I would agree that the flash is an optical effect causing the stun effect, nothing in the monster's description states that sightlessness protects you from it. And, having experienced flash-grenades (stroboscobic) first hand during my army stint, I am inclined to argue that their flash does penetrate even closed eyelids, much to my chargrin. And it leaves a wicked green-after image, akin to snowblindness - but that does not prevent another flash from re-illuminating your retina and causing sensory overload. Turning away your head may be the only protection
Hence, no idea if blindness protects someone from the flashof the Eye, and what sort of blindness is caused by it - not by the rules anyway, and a doubtful judgement by anyone, judging from my personal experience.
But, never let the rules interfere with common sense.
Which is actually the reason why I am not going to "park" a 10'+ (huge, right ?) diameter spherical deep-sea (!) monster in a shallow water swamp-puddle.
.....despite whatever the designer imagined. YMMV
well, the problem I see with the encounter is
a) It's an almost surefire way to alarm the entire hideout, with major optical effects and likely a building going up in flames/blasted to pieces.. Not to mention sound effects etc.
Now, this being on the outskirts of the hideout; I somehow believe the players would want to avoid that. And it is located on the "sneak up" side of the hideout, where the jungle with its foliage comes really close. And there really is hardly any way to know of it beforehand, except by powerful magical reconnaissance
It's really the party's responsibility to get some intel before they raid. It's a big open area; there's no excuse for not making some serious reconnaissance efforts. They're 17th-level PCs, which means they have access to absolutely every ability in the game. And if they can't use the required intel abilities routinely they still have access to the Scuttlecove market, where they can purchase virtually anything the DM will allow.
And yeah, they probably should end up alerting the hideout on their first major encounter. That's why the Crimson Fleet posts guards.
And unless the group uses ethereal or astral surveillance, their scout(s) will be in a very dire strait if he/she/it enters said shed... flash, boom... munch ?
Well, yeah. The scout should either be expendable or have a contingency effect up. Or just have an unassailable Spot check. And in this case, Vzorthys has only a +31 Spot check and no special detection abilities. A L17 rogue should be able to easily defeat such a spot check.
b) The Eye is simply....not the type of monster to hang out with the Crimson Fleet, whatever the backstory. Basically the whole setup IMHO ignores the self-esteem, mindset, urges and natural habitat of an Eye of the Deep for a cheap surprise effect. YMMV
Well, except for the fact that Demogorgon is the demon lord of (among other things) monsters of the briny deep. Deep-water monsters are to be expected in one of his primary home bases.
But yeah, I'll grant that even then, Vzorthys is a little bit of a Giant Space Flea out of Nowhere, and that's not to everyone's taste. I believe Paizo representatives have explained that they deliberately include some of these, though, so create variety and ensure that no one is entirely useless in an adventure if their primary schtick is nullified by the main opponent.
While I would agree that the flash is an optical effect causing the stun effect, nothing in the monster's description states that sightlessness protects you from it.
Page 65 in Dungeon 146, last line of the Baleful Flash description: "Sightless creatures are immune to this attack."
And, having experienced flash-grenades (stroboscobic) first hand during my army stint, I am inclined to argue that their flash does penetrate even closed eyelids, much to my chargrin. And it leaves a wicked green-after image, akin to snowblindness - but that does not prevent another flash from re-illuminating your retina and causing sensory overload. Turning away your head may be the only protection
Hence, no idea if blindness protects someone from the flashof the Eye, and what sort of blindness is caused by it - not by the rules anyway, and a doubtful judgement by anyone, judging from my personal experience.
But, never let the rules interfere with common sense.
Clearly, real life has far more precision and less granularity than D&D. In real life, there are many layers of protection against bright light, starting with squinting, passing through closing your eyes and turning your head, and ending with curling up in a fetal position while encased in layers of opaque insulators. On the other hand, D&D has three: no protection, avert your eyes, and close your eyes. 'Close your eyes' has game effects exactly equivalent to complete and total blindness. It seems unfair to give the PC all of the penalties of being blind, without also applying the benefit specifically added into the text of the ability for blind targets.
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as far as "subtlety"...
my party did the following:
lit the first guard building on fire, after using a raging-flame-fireball attack on the death slaad (and having everyone flying, including the 40' bright, 40' shadowy glowing radiant servant of pelor and "on fire" pyrokineticist)
immediately flew to the guard tower, where they used more explosive and flashy spells/attacks, and the ranger set off a 18d10 gunpowder explosion with the remaining charges in the cannons iron powder magazine
flew to the other buildings around the perimeter, lighting them on fire as they went
finally burned the entire Vzorthys shed to the ground with one fell swoop, simply because there was something wrong about the floor/floorplan of the building.
so, no, they're not subtle, and pretty low on the sneakyness scale.
(of course, with 2 characters who have effectively at-will teleports, and a conjurer with gemjump, teleport, and greater teleport all prepared everyday, they can afford the "strike first" trick most of the time.
-the hamster
(i generally rule that touchsight will penetrate any non-solid bodies with ease, so anything with cracks/holes (like badly decayed wooden huts in the swamp) can be seen through/into without a problem. tightly buttoned up structures, though, will reveal only the outlines.)
@koboldlord
"sightless" to me implies not having a sense of sight, not a (temporarily) disfunctional one.
Please note that such a corelation as drawn by you is nowhere (especially not in the description of "blindness in the 3.5. PHB) to be found TTBOMK . While creatures explicitly "sightless" such as Grimlocks (FR Underdark) are very much noted as such.... And it is not called "blindness" there
Which leads me to the conclusion that being unable to see is a two-tiered stae. Temporarily (such as by the flash) and, far more limiting being physically unable (having no optical sensory organs) to see.
So we either have the case of it being a mis-labeling in the monster's description ( LoM, as the most recent official write down of the monster would be my choice ), or we do have a case that a GM has to decide based upon his own (gasp !) judgement, because (especially so temporary ) "blindness" is not the same as "sightless".
Bugger it.... and here I was thinking that these decisions was what the GM is for...
As for "layers of reality" - I have found, throughout my long roleplaying career, that keeping up a certain degree of "common sense" besides and even in the face of the rules (who can be pretty absurd) infinitly improves one's gaming experience, usually called "fun" - because the suspension of disbelief is maintained.
And given mature, non-selfish players, it is usually a universal experience, even if it may lead to chracter deaths (it works the same the other way round as well ). YMMV
As for the "17th level characters"... well looking at my group ( just finished CoBI with some losses - SoS is now straight ahead ) they are 15th level atm, 5 players. All of them are multi-classed, which of course lowers their maximum caster level some. And given that SoS is written for 15th level characters advancing through level 16 in the course of it, I doubt that a normal group would have level 17 before entering the secret base - I consider them of normalpower.
Now "Astral Projection" is a level 9 spell, barely within reach for 17th level caster, and looking over the remainder of the high-level divination spells, I see few and far between that would be of use in scouting the Fleet-base.
Besides, spells like "Scrying Trap" (MoE) being present in our campaign makes magical scrying of high level opposition less popular than you might think...
@-hamster
all the subtlety of a preparatory artillery barrage =)
Vikingson, I'm sorry to say I can't acknowledge your point of view. With no specific glossary definition in the RAW for 'sightless', we're stuck with the dictionary and DM's prerogative.
The dictionary seems to support the notion that blindness is a state of not having sight, and therefore equivalent to being sightless. A definition of 'sightless' that specifically excludes 'blindness' does not appear to exist in normal English.
The DM that judges the two states to be different for some reason does so knowing full well that doing so is likely to cause a nigh-unavoidable TPK. Criticizing the module designers for not compensating for the DM's own made-up definitions of words is really not fair.
Real-life experience is totally irrelevant. There is no evidence to speak of that an Eye of the Deep's Baleful Flash is at all similar to a flash grenade.
You can feel free to DM the situation any way you like, but if your group resents the TPK that follows don't blame Paizo.
@koboldlord
"sightless" to me implies not having a sense of sight, not a (temporarily) disfunctional one.
Please note that such a corelation as drawn by you is nowhere (especially not in the description of "blindness in the 3.5. PHB) to be found TTBOMK .
Actually there is a mechanic for this its just rather well hidden. Check out the rules pertaining to Gaze Attacks. Under Gaze attack it specifically mentions that the victem may take counter measures such as closing their eyes or wearing a blind fold. According to the entry this counter measure defeats the gaze attack (player does not have to make a saving throw) but gives all opposition full cover.
Certianly a DM could rule that this particular tactic works only against Gaze Attacks and may not be utilized anywhere else but since they do explain the mechanic its fairly reasonable to apply this mechanic to any circumstance where the PCs decide to close their eyes.
P.S.
Not sure what TTBOMK means - love to have that clarified.
Actually there is a mechanic for this its just rather well hidden. Check out the rules pertaining to Gaze Attacks. Under Gaze attack it specifically mentions that the victem may take counter measures such as closing their eyes or wearing a blind fold. According to the entry this counter measure defeats the gaze attack (player does not have to make a saving throw) but gives all opposition full cover.
Certianly a DM could rule that this particular tactic works only against Gaze Attacks and may not be utilized anywhere else but since they do explain the mechanic its fairly reasonable to apply this mechanic to any circumstance where the PCs decide to close their eyes.
P.S.
Not sure what TTBOMK means - love to have that clarified.
They get full concealment, not cover. Full cover is where there's an unbreakable wall between the two even if they can see each other, such as a wall of force. Full concealment is when one can't see the other, such blindness, invisibility, or closing eyes.
I think TTBOMK means "To the best of my knowledge".
Vikingson, I'm sorry to say I can't acknowledge your point of view. With no specific glossary definition in the RAW for 'sightless', we're stuck with the dictionary and DM's prerogative.
The dictionary seems to support the notion that blindness is a state of not having sight, and therefore equivalent to being sightless. A definition of 'sightless' that specifically excludes 'blindness' does not appear to exist in normal English.
The DM that judges the two states to be different for some reason does so knowing full well that doing so is likely to cause a nigh-unavoidable TPK. Criticizing the module designers for not compensating for the DM's own made-up definitions of words is really not fair.
Real-life experience is totally irrelevant. There is no evidence to speak of that an Eye of the Deep's Baleful Flash is at all similar to a flash grenade.
You can feel free to DM the situation any way you like, but if your group resents the TPK that follows don't blame Paizo.
Well, actually that is a pretty sophistic point of view - sightless is not the same as blind, we do agree on that. Since huamn and real world creatures do regularly see only normally through eyes (no such things like Life sight, darkvision etc. TTBOMK ) what the RL dictionary say is a bit limited. In DnD, there are other optional modes of "sight", especially some without need for "eyes" (compare the Grimlock in Underdark etc. ) .
Given that in German and what I know of Danish you can easily distinguish between the terms "blind" and "sightless" , I really see no actual problem, unless one willfully reduces one's vocabulary to exlude anything in Orwellian style. BUT...... I can live with your rather inclusive take on "blindess means immunity to flash attacks", especially since we don't play in the same game, and even than, it would be GM's call. It's a matter of opinion, let's settle it at that, shall we ?
And concerning the situation and being "fair" - IMHO, our differing take on the reapplication of the flash does not make much of a difference - the party is definitely looking at 1-6 rounds of stun, and twice that of "blindness" - which means in all likelihood fumbling about in swamp/muddy environment with no clear idea of one's route of escape or the oppositions location. Unless they were out of range initially, and even then, they are likely targets for the eye-beams.
With an opponent who can easily keep flashing its eye every round, just to make sure it restuns/reblinds those that rolled low results for duration, or even saved on the initial blast.... well.... everybody closeby will be either blind or stunned and blind very soon.
Plus said opponent has a free "hold monster" beam (DC 27 Will, 150' range ), which it can apply as an extra measure every round, just to make sure the opposition holds still for being snipped to pieces.....
Besides it fights them in terrain very much to its advantage - broken ground, muddy flats and a pool reducing the opposition's speed and avenues of movement, with limited escape paths and allies nearby who will certainly react to its very noticable main attack mode being employed.
It does not really make much of a difference whether the main eye can re-affect those blinded and stunned by the initial blast or only after the first effect wears off entirely. With a party of 4, there is a very good chance that it will finish off half or more of them before even the initial stun has passed... And I suspect, even then only a swift "teleport" might save those fumbling around blinded in the mud.
Sounds like a real breathtakingly fun encounter to me =)
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You'd be surprised what PC's can pull off, especially the ones smart enough to be careful when exploring a seemingly abandoned building in a 15th+ level campaign area.
In any case, for my games, I've already decided that anyone blinded by the flash can't be affected by it until they can see again. If someone wants to reason that the flash effect hitting blinded eyes (or hitting a creature that uses sight at all, no matter the state of its eyes) can still stun the creature, that's up to them.
You'd be surprised what PC's can pull off, especially the ones smart enough to be careful when exploring a seemingly abandoned building in a 15th+ level campaign area.
In any case, for my games, I've already decided that anyone blinded by the flash can't be affected by it until they can see again. If someone wants to reason that the flash effect hitting blinded eyes (or hitting a creature that uses sight at all, no matter the state of its eyes) can still stun the creature, that's up to them.
I think I have seen almost the entire field of interesting and utterly ridiculous ways of "scouting" out target objects. In the end, it always comes down to poking a head or other limb in, and that is where the "flash" comes into play
As for the second paragraph, you having massively misunderstood what I was explaining cannot be helped. Careful on the "hold monster" beam, though, and happy "Eye-ing"
I think I have seen almost the entire field of interesting and utterly ridiculous ways of "scouting" out target objects. In the end, it always comes down to poking a head or other limb in, and that is where the "flash" comes into play
#1: Planar Ally/Planar Binding with Telepathic Bond. If they die before getting a turn to report, you at least know there's something dangerous in there. And heck, outsiders and elementals often come with useful immunities, so you'll probably get that report.
#2: Contingency effect on the scout. If they get hit by an effect or damage that would prevent them from taking their next turn, the contingency sends them back to report.
#3: Core, vanilla rogue. 20 ranks in Hide, basic invisibility, a conservative 20 dexterity, Cloak of Elvenkind +5, taking 10 == Hide check of 60. The Eye of the Deep can't make that even on a natural 20, and we haven't even attempted optimization yet. If the Eye of the Deep does not detect the scout, it isn't going to just randomly start Baleful Flashing.
#4: Lead off with a hurricane using Control Weather, throw in an Earthquake while that's going on, and finish up with a Firestorm. Pick off the monsters and pirates that swarm out like ants from a distance of half a mile with long-range magical attacks. Swoop in and finish off the bosses. You really don't even have to enter the base if you don't want to, at this level. If your PCs are taking it room by room, chances are you're not taking advantage of the merits of high-level play.
As for the second paragraph, you having massively misunderstood what I was explaining cannot be helped.
It's not really a misunderstanding; we're just rejecting your reasoning outright. You've invented an interpretation that is clearly opposed to the RAW and RAI alike. It is highly unlikely that the sentence in question was originally intended to help adjudicate a NPC battle between grimlocks and an eye of the deep. The weakness of the baleful flash is there for PCs to exploit, specifically so they don't get perma-stunned.
Careful on the "hold monster" beam, though, and happy "Eye-ing"
Yeah, paralysis is always a threat. I recommend the Ring of Freedom of Movement, since it's disgustingly underpriced for what it can do.
as for hide...... door/window/gate opens... nothing enters.... smart money says, a flash can be helpful *flash*... rinse and repeat
As for quoting the RAW... I haven't yet seen a quote that supports blind = sightless, except for the RL analogy that blindness means sightlessness.
and as for "misunderstood" ---> not aimed at you (KL) , but at the assumption of me stating that the flash would even affect "sightless" targets
GL
Actually there is a mechanic for this its just rather well hidden. Check out the rules pertaining to Gaze Attacks. Under Gaze attack it specifically mentions that the victem may take counter measures such as closing their eyes or wearing a blind fold. According to the entry this counter measure defeats the gaze attack (player does not have to make a saving throw) but gives all opposition full cover.
Certianly a DM could rule that this particular tactic works only against Gaze Attacks and may not be utilized anywhere else but since they do explain the mechanic its fairly reasonable to apply this mechanic to any circumstance where the PCs decide to close their eyes.
They get full concealment, not cover. Full cover is where there's an unbreakable wall between the two even if they can see each other, such as a wall of force. Full concealment is when one can't see the other, such blindness, invisibility, or closing eyes.
Right, full concealment for opponents if you close your eyes. Thats what I meant of course. My bad.
Interesting thread, thanks for all the replies. I was one of the PC's in Milton's near TPK party (yeah, yeah, I am careful what threads I read..).
Anyway, for the record we were all 15th lvl and most of us had 13th lvl cohorts. We were doing a fairly brisk clearing of the perimeter and things seemed to be going swimingly, so caution wasn't as elevated as it could be.
We opened the door and saw the illusion and of course my mage said, that's gotta be an illusion, Scout, go check out the door for traps.
No sooner than that said then Eye of the deep flashed us and my ranger cohort rolled a 35 for fort and my buffed mage rolled a 26 so i am thinking whatever and laughed it off, when to my amazement I am told my nuker is stunned for 4 rounds. Now I recoginized the desciption of the eye of the deep from first ed monster manual but I had no recollection of it being so freaking nasty.
It still might have been okay since my Ranger cohort could dole out about 50-100 point of dam per round using holy arrows and the nimbus bow, but the will save on the hold monster gaze was insane, I need a 20 to make it, so ranger held on round 1.
Wizard on round 5 casts limited wish to make party temporarily immune to flash but didn't stop to think that being blind it wouldn't impact anyway.
Round 6 he casts maximised magic missle since doesn't think he needs to be able to see it..spell resistance nullifies.
Round 6 Baleen whale is summoned by favoured soul part memeber and buys us some distraction.
Round 7 archer is freed from hold and does 70 points dam from 3 arrows.
Round 7 wizard casts greater shout...
round 8 wizard casts primsmatic spray..stupid eye of the deep petrified..
but only after 3 party members dead and the rest of us damn lucky to be alive.
Would have been less touch and go if wizard had activated the moment of prescience spell but I figured with a 26 fort roll I was good to go. From now on, paranoia rules.
We were doing a fairly brisk clearing of the perimeter and things seemed to be going swimingly, so caution wasn't as elevated as it could be.
In my experience this kills more PCs then anything else in the game. The most dangerous encounter in the game is the hard one your not really expecting to be a BBEG fight thats come just on the heels of three or more encounters that never really got anyone scared.
By the time you realize you should be pulling out all the stops and that your desperately fighting for your life its often already to late for some of the PCs.