JSL's Runelords - Discussion

[JSL]

Ragadolf wrote:

NOW- consider adding this clause;
Characters can work together to make an item. To do so they must work on the item together, (basically as per core rules), and they can share the 'point cost' of the item. (And this is how the bad guys get those cool toys, they trick others into working with them, and then drain them of 'points'! And usually their life in the bargain!)

I think this is a fine idea, so long as it isn't abused. If resources are pooled to create items for the common good, like wands of clw, that is fair. Though I'm not sure how this would work if some people have the relevant feats and others do not. Perhaps only the feat holder's "share" of the cost is reduced so others still pay full share.

The pricing structure is not completely linear so if you want to combine a level 2 item with a level 6 item, (like a +1 sword that does shocking grasp 1/day at CL 1), I will have to determine the cost because it probably won't be 8.

The basic idea for Item Levels is directly from the Magic Item Compendium. Therein, they state that a PC of a given level should have approximately two items of each level up to his character level. So at 2nd level, you would have 2 2nd-level items and 2 1st-level items. Thus the craft points equal 2x character level. So you are basically making the magic items that I would otherwise have to hand out. It neatly solves two problems: 1) you get what you want; 2) I don't have to worry about the incongruities created by having you find or buy it.

However, there are some pitfalls. For example, a sixth level item is substantially more powerful than 2 third level items. Also, since armor isn't represented at all until 4th level and weapons don't show up until 6th level, the fighter types are going to build up a reserve of craft points moreso than the other classes. Thus the option to take feats instead.

Rags wrote:

I would like to discuss the single-use scrolls and potions having a lower 'point cost' per level of spell than other items like a wand, which has multiple charges, or arms & armor, which are permanent.

I have it all worked out using the SRD cost formulations with a few minor simplifications. Basically I use the price formulae from the DMG and look up the corresponding item level in the MIC.

Scrolls and potions are cheaper than other items. A ninth level scroll is about a ninth level item (though you couldn't make one until you were 17th level, of course). However, put one 9th level spell in a staff (at 1 charge/use) and you're looking at a 21st level item right off the bat!

For uses/day items (up to 5 uses) I use 360gp x CL x spell level x daily uses. For permanent items, I use 2000gp x CL x spell level + the XP cost of making the thing permanent (usually 500xp x spell level).

For uses per day items, the costs are basically as follows:

1st level (CL 1) 1/day: 2nd level item
1st level (CL 1) 2/day: 3rd level item
1st level (CL 1) 3/day: 4th level item

EDIT: I would like to just go up to three for uses per day and have five uses per day equal once per encounter. At a certain point, keeping track of daily uses is a nuisance. However, I'm not convinced that once/encounter is equal to <some # of> uses per day. It really comes down to resource managment and play style, so there may be no clear equivalency. However, if you have an item that works once per encounter, I bet you will find a way to use it once per encounter. But if it is once per day, (or even 3/day) you will always be second guessing whether you should use it now or not. In that sense, the per encounter item may get used more.

The 2nd level spell items are generally 4th level and above, so they would not be relevant until after Burnt Offerings.

Note that I think permanent items should be very rare and special. Therefore, all the always functioning boosters like XXX of YYY + ZZZ are basically history. If you find a permanent magical item, it will be something worth having, not just some random stat booster.

Note that you can also use your craft/training reserve to "buy" ability score/AC/and save increases, though - same cost as a weapon for abilties or AC bonus and same cost as armor for save bonuses.

For arms and armor, I use 2000 x bonus squared (arms) and 1000 x bonus squared (armor). So you can get "permanent" weapons and armor without the permanency spell. In fact, these items may not be magical at all, as you pointed out, they might just by really really good mundane stuff made from special materials or something.

I also like the idea of not requiring a weapon to be +1 to get other bonuses. It makes something as simple as a flaming sword a 12th level item. But if I can add the flame without the +1, I can do it at sixth level. Without this change, every sixth level mook will have a +1 weapon, which is boring. At least my way there is some variety! (note that the mundane flaming sword will not overcome DR /magic)

[Ragadolf]

VERY cool, I think. ;P (As I said before, making this stuff up has always been my weak point. NOT coming up with the system, but balancing it and making it work!)

BEFORE I get started on this novel,... in response to your comments about working together to create an item,... this may actually HELP 'pooling resources' to create items for the party. Working together and donating points to create a CLW wand is one obvious example, but I'll bet if I weren't so tired I could come up with other examples of what I might be willing to donate a point towards for the party, even if I wasn't going to carry it.

Not to make you print an entire book in our OOC thread, (I REALLY need to go examine this 'MIC') but what would be the cost of your standard 'Ring of Protection +1'? Because that, and a few +1 weapons, are what you usually end up with by 2nd or 3rd level.

Hm, The more I review this, (I'm going to copy all of this out onto a word doc and edit it together,... eventually) the more I like it. As you said, we get what we want, without you having to plant it, and yet the bad guys will still sometimes have 'loot' that THEY have made. And even that will not be the generic stuff that we think about at low level. (and in fact may even become a side quest- how to get RID of an evil magic item we don't want someone else to use!)

Having not yet perused the MIC, I have one more question for you to think about, (Again, this is something that will not happen for a few levels at least,) But the more powerful items are usually centered around good/evil. and those usually deliver a negative (either damage, or temporary neg levels) to those of a different alignment. Would limiting your item to being used by those of similar alignment (say minor alignment for the neg level, and major for the direct damage), would be a Limitation to the item, and thus reduce the cost?

My thinking on this comes from my years of playing the 'Heroes System' (CHampions, Fantasy Hero, etc.) a generic point based RPG where you can build ANYthing, literally, by buying powers and adding Advantages and Limitations onto them which raises and lowers the cost respectively.

My initial thought on this is (you already have a partial example with your cost chart above for uses/day; example-): Rags builds a 'ring of charm person' (triggered by shaking hands with the victim, naturally) at 1/day. This is a 2nd lvl item. At 4th or 5th lvl, this is essentially useless vs. our current enemies because it is still at 1st CL. he wants to raise the CL, (this would be an Advantage= increasing the cost a mathematical point # X the level of spell, etc.)

After a few levels,Rags realizes that he can create a weapon that can turn a beggar into a king if misused. So the next time he creates an item he makes sure that it can only be used by those of similar alignment. (In Hero terms this would be a Limitation, reducing the cost of the powers in the item. How much it reduces depends on the strength of the limitation.)

LOng-winded as usual, but you get the idea of what I'm thinking. And again, you already have this partially covered based on your math and the examples above.

I will try to peruse the MIC before writing any more books about this!

Thanks again @JSL~ Now Sli can actually get excited about making magic items!

[JSL]

A ring of protection +1 is a sixth level item (well, that's not completely true; see below). I know that sounds crazy and it is partially a defect of the system and partially old habits dying hard.

As someone who's been doing this for 20 odd years, I am also used to the idea of a ring of protection +1 or a sword +1 being a relatively minor item that you can give to a 2nd level character without upsetting game balance.

However, for reasons I do not completely understand, WotC has assigned these items a cost of 2,000 each. A second level character is barely worth 2,000 and its not until 6th level that that character can afford to have 2,000 tied up in one item. So in the meantime, he gets by chugging potions and slapping on oils left and right. Potions and oils which he buys at the friendly neighborhood magic shop, I might add.

I thought very seriously about recosting magic weapons to make the low end stuff more readily available, but I couldn't come up with a solution I liked. Either every town guardsman would have a +1 sword or PCs would have +5 items by 12th level. It just wasn't working. So I decided to get rid of the "item must be +1 to have another enchantment" rule. The result is that it is still a sixth level item, but now it can be much cooler than "just +1" - though you might not think so the first time you run into something with DR /magic.

Back to that ring of protection. It's history. What a lame thing for a ring to do. Why do you need the Forge Ring feat to do that, anyway? Forge Ring should be for cool artifacts and stuff. Couldn't you just create a codpiece of protection with Craft Wondrous Item instead?

Now instead of a ring of protection +1, you can train yourself up to a better AC at a cost of 6 points plus fee for the trainer. Later, you can upgrade your training to a higher AC bonus. This is better. You can't lose training. Guards can't confiscate it. You don't have to take it off to use different training. So it still costs 6, but its much more portable.

Likewise with "magic" weapons and armor. Maybe they aren't "magic" - maybe you're just better with them. Maybe it is a mystic fighting style or supernatural bond between man and steel. Formerly you had the problem of finding the badguy's bastard sword +1 and saying "but I can't use a bastard sword and I don't want to waste a feat to learn how when in the next room we might find a spiked chain +2". Now for your 6 points you get to "enchant" the weapon you actually want to use instead of being stuck with some castoff.

To your topic of limitations. I understand completely what you are saying. My concern is that the system is already balanced to properly equip the PCs. Allowing you a discount (and who wouldn't take the discount?) will destabilize the system. I would basically have to cut back on other treasure to make up for it so there would be no net change, only (I think) more work keeping track of limitations on various things. In a way, you can think of it like this: the system already assumes that only the PCs will use the stuff they create. In the unlikely event that an enemy beats you up and takes your stuff and tries to use it against you, you can be mad at me. But that is maybe a once per campaign occurence. Also, with that in mind, limiting your items so only you can use them is actually a benefit, not a limitation and should cost more. "This sword cost 10% more, my lord, but the evildoers cannot use it against us!".

Now if you want to make a genuinely nasty flawed item that hurts the person who uses it (like a viscous weapon), there should be some discount for that. I think the discount is already built into the viscous weapon: it is a +2 bonus equivalent and would be more if it didn't hurt the user.

We could also be getting into weapon of legacy terrain here where you have some drawbacks (loss of hp, reduced saves, reduced attacks, etc.) associated with an item. I would definitely consider something like that because I think legacy items are cool.

I consider the matter open to discussion, though it likely won't be relevant until after Burnt Offerings.

I think we are on the same page and as more people have a chance to chime in on this, we'll see if its the direction we want to go. I am fairly certain that this is advantageous for the primary casters in the party.

I would like to hear from the fighters and see if they would use the extra feats or would save up for swords and stuff. They are the ones who potentially don't benefit as quickly from this system. Because I'm like you and I'm feeling pressure to start dropping +1 swords and rings now because under 1E it feels like the right time. Its harder to reward the warriors under the SRD without keeping the apothecary up all night brewing potions for the party to buy or find. I think the option of extra feats might just be the trick to keep them on par, though.

[Ragadolf]

Hehe, yeah, I think we do think alike (scary thought for our character futures there,...) Because we had the exact same conversation over Advantages and Disadvantages in the Hero System.

(Basically, I have one game-lawyer friend that can literally take ANY Disadvantage, and turn it into an Advantage [for him at least]. Don't ask me how, I could never manage it!)

Anyway, THANK YOU for all the effort and thought you have already put into this, I hope to start taking advantage of you, er I mean of IT! Very soon!

:D

PS-1:30 am here,... nighty night

[FabesMinis]

This is my longsword, there are many like it, but this is one is mine.

I'm all for reducing the Christmas Tree effect and the magic item shop but I have only speed read through these posts so haven't quite 'got' it all yet.

[Ragadolf]

I think this also helps to reflect the 'spirit' of the game, There is a cool scene in a Drizzt novel "The Halfling's Gem" I think, (NOTE- NOT personally a big fan of Drizzt, he has TOO many hang-ups for a major hero for me. After all these novels and victories, GET OVER IT ALREADY! Sheesh!)

But there is a cool scene in the book where the Dwarf Warrior Brueneor Battlehammer (Who NEVER shows an inclination for magic at any other time in any of the novels), makes a magic 'warhammer of returning' for his adopted human son, Wulfgar. It was a neat scene.

NOTE- Not sure about the feats though,... (I AM ok with your explanation of training instead of finding a +1 ring, though it goes against all my 1E roots as well!) But feats, think about it.

I'M as big a fan of feats as the next guy,( just look at Sli at 1st level!) But warriors (and mages to a lesser extent) already get more feats than you can shake a stick at. And the right combo of feats can be pretty devastating, especially for a fighter who can basically use them every round! (Increased Crit, Super-Cleave, Etc.) This is compared to magic items, where for several levels all we can make are one-shot items.

NOT saying I hate the idea, (I can't hate ANYthing that might give Sli another metamagic feat!) but I think that a feat might need to be priced as a permanent magic item, since it is essentially a talent that can possibly make a character MUCH more powerful, and as you noted earlier, cannot be taken away!

@JSL~" wrote:

(note that the mundane flaming sword will not overcome DR /magic)

True, BUT the flames would still be magical! therefore the extra 1d6 of fire damage would still hurt the creature, even though the sword itself might not scratch it's hide! Yet another coolness to your method, makes the player choose between 'Boring +1' and 'cool flaming or frostburn' sword!

NOTE- Sorry about posting novels on this, but 1) It is fun and I like it! and 2) I'm bored at work this weekend, and thinking about this! Thank for your reading patience!

and now, back to your regularly scheduled OOC thread!

[Dreamer]

I'm all for this system. I like it because
1) It seems to simplify the general item cost structure.
2) It makes the game make more sense. (Yeah, why DOESN'T the magic shop guy rescue the town? And why does it take time to heal at the church when they could just throw you in a vat of CLW potion?)
3) There's more room for creativity and personalization (one reason why I like to make stuff in real life, too).
4) Acquiring materials and making items (either solo or with an ally) offers more room for role-play, which is definitely the strength of PbP.
5) As a novice (and one who glazes over when it comes to rule-mavening), I don't have any baggage (which I guess I would have stolen off of a dead hobgoblin) about how it should be/was in a former incarnation of the game.

I haven't played a fighter before, so I can't evaluate whether the system is fair for them (though I'm assuming it is; JSL knows his systems). However, as a cleric for whom feats are often an afterthought, this seems to tidy up the new-neat-stuff-I-can-do-now discrepancy between classes.

My only concern is that, just like picking up any new creative hobby, I don't know what I CAN make -- I don't yet know what's possible, or what goals I can/should be aiming for. (Until yesterday, I didn't know that CLW came in wand form. What will they think of next?) So when the time comes, I'll be happy for good ideas and suggestions, especially those that are outside the proverbial box.

Spoiler:

Like I said before, JSL knows his stuff!

[JSL]

Rags,

I think you raise a valid point with respect to feats and that is something that I'm not convinced there is an easy solution to. The problem is that there are alot of feats across a spectrum of different power levels and the ability to combine feats can make for very powerful combinations. Here are a couple of things I'm considering.

Feats function every round. Sometimes, like Power Attack with multiple attacks they can be used more than once per round. But a wizard with a staff can also fire off the same spell every round. If the party's 15th-level wizard is dropping 10d6 fireballs every round (wand of fireball CL 10 is a 15th level item), is it a problem if the 15th-level fighter can tag two guys with a bounding assault at +20/+15 for 1d8+16 plus 2d6 with a bane weapon and power attack?

Fighter example assumes +15 BAB, +1 bane weapon, +5 Str bonus, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization and a 5-pt power attack.

One thing that is not very equitable in the SRD is that characters have a very limited set of feats that they learn. But there is no limit (except DM judgement) on the number of magic items characters cart around. The result is that characters are more dependant on their gear than on their own abilities. My proposal is that characters who choose a feat would be doing so in exchange for basically half of their magic item mojo at that level. That might be a trivial price at low levels but it is huge at high levels. And most of the "good" feats (at least for fighters) are not available until high BAB or until many prerequisites are met.

One thing that we would have to curtail is feat stockpiling. That is, some feats that do not have explicit prerequisites still cannot be used until some implicit prerequisite is met. Metamagic feats are in this category. You can take a feat before you can cast high enough level spells to use it. Feats like this will have to have the explicit prerequisite: "you can't take it until you can use it".

[Ragadolf]

@JSL~
Like I said, we are on the same wavelength. I'm sure that we will be able to work something out that is equitable to all. Eventually. :)

BTW, I managed to see a copy of the MIC, and they have the answer both in there and in the DMG to your 'Multiple abilities in one item cost' statement. There is a formula for multiple powers. 1st (highest lvl) power is full price, 2nd is (basically) half, and all after that are (basically) 1/4 price. (I rounded off figures, its a little more complicated than that of course!)

I have a few disagreements with where they rated certain levels of some items, but Again I think you've hit on a wonderful possibility. This may be the first time EVER in all the times I've played casters that I'll actually get to make magic items!

:D

"Mage On!" ;P

[santinj@]

JSL wrote:

It think it is easier than you are imagining.

I imagine that this is true. Item Creation is something that I've usually just skipped over (I tend to play martial or stealthy characters). If I sit down and try to understand this, I'm sure it'll all become clear...

JSL wrote:

Just think of it as money. You have 6 credits: 2x1 + 2x2. You can "buy" something costing up to 2 credits. Right now, Vesh cannot make spell-based items and you cannot yet afford armor (4 credits minimum) or weapons (6 credits minimum). However, if we ratify the rules, you could "buy" a feat at third level for 3 credits.

Now we're talking; this does interest me. I've been fighting the urge to add a level of fighter to maximize feats. Vesh isn't a fighter, but I'd like to pump up his archery skills...and to be able to use a short sword and dagger at the same time. Hmmm.

[santinj@]

BTW, can I assume that we're going to add this week's xp after the upcoming encounter? The party will be leveling-up.

[JSL]

santinj@ wrote:

BTW, can I assume that we're going to add this week's xp after the upcoming encounter? The party will be leveling-up.

umm. you need 3,000 for 3rd level, not 2,000. I think you still have a ways to go.

[JSL]

santinj@ wrote:

Now we're talking; this does interest me. I've been fighting the urge to add a level of fighter to maximize feats. Vesh isn't a fighter, but I'd like to pump up his archery skills...and to be able to use a short sword and dagger at the same time. Hmmm.

That's very helpful feedback. If I have an idea up front about what people would do with these rules if they had the chance, that helps me decide if they are fair. Adding an archery feat or two-weapon fighting in "exchange" for a level 3 item is fair. It makes your character a little better, more diverse, and more fun to play, but not overwhelming so at this level. Even though the feats will stick around throughout your career, I don't see them as potentially game-breaking. And it counters the (understandable, but somewhat munchkin) urge people have to "raid" other classes through multi-classing.

[santinj@]

JSL wrote:

santinj@ wrote:

BTW, can I assume that we're going to add this week's xp after the upcoming encounter? The party will be leveling-up.

umm. you need 3,000 for 3rd level, not 2,000. I think you still have a ways to go.

Yes. I knew that. I was, um. Ha.

[FabesMinis]

Hmm... I confess I did raid Fighter for the bonus feats.

Maybe I won't have to anymore with this system.

[PsionicFox]

Hey guys, sorry I've not been on - my computer has been having trouble accessing the paizo forums...

I'll try and catch up now.

[JSL]

FabesMinis wrote:

Hmm... I confess I did raid Fighter for the bonus feats.

Maybe I won't have to anymore with this system.

Don't sweat it. So did the bad guys!

[Dreamer]

So... What do you do when you can't do anything? Also, remind me how many XP on Mondays?

[FabesMinis]

Ummm... you could... er... hmmm... throw stones at it? Not sure really...

Looks like it's me and Corran vs the beastie.

[santinj@]

Dreamer wrote:

So... What do you do when you can't do anything? Also, remind me how many XP on Mondays?

Isn't this when the Bard starts singing? Also 100 XP for Mondays. Almost the best part of my Mondays, actually.

[Arctaris]

santinj@ wrote:

Dreamer wrote:

So... What do you do when you can't do anything? Also, remind me how many XP on Mondays?

Isn't this when the Bard starts singing? Also 100 XP for Mondays. Almost the best part of my Mondays, actually.

We could have a group sing-a-long.

[Dreamer]

santinj@ wrote:

Isn't this when the Bard starts singing?

Who are you calling a bard?

Wait, I know a song guaranteed to drive enemies and allies insane. Everybody join in!
I'm Hen-er-y the Eighth, I am...

[Arctaris]

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical

I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse

With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotepotenuse

I'm very good at integral and differential calculus
I know the scientific names of beings animalculous
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
I am the very model of a modern Major-General

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
He is the very model of a modern Major-General

I know our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's
I answer hard acrostics, I've a pretty taste for paradox
I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus
In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous

I can tell undoubted Raphaels from Gerard Dows and Zoffanies
I know the croaking chorus from the Frogs of Aristophanes
Then I can hum a fugue of which I've heard the music's din afore
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore

And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinapinafore

Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform
And tell you ev'ry detail of Caractacus's uniform
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
I am the very model of a modern Major-General

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
He is the very model of a modern Major-General

In fact, when I know what is meant by "mamelon" and "ravelin"
When I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin
When such affairs as sorties and surprises I'm more wary at
And when I know precisely what is meant by "commissariat"

When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern gunnery
When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery
In short, when I've a smattering of elemental strategy
You'll say a better Major-General had never sat a gee

You'll say a better Major-General had never sat a gee
You'll say a better Major-General had never sat a gee
You'll say a better Major-General had never sat a sat a gee

For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
I am the very model of a modern Major-General

But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral
He is the very model of a modern Major-General

[santinj@]

Dreamer wrote:

Wait, I know a song guaranteed to drive enemies and allies insane. Everybody join in!
I'm Hen-er-y the Eighth, I am...

ARRGGHHH! My ears! My ears! For the love of all that is good!!

[Dreamer]

Arctaris wrote:

I am the very model of a modern Major-General

I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical...

If you can say (or sing) the whole thing out loud, memorized, and pronounce it all, then I say, "You da bard!" ;)

[Ragadolf]

Yay for singa longs!

Sorry I'm late, but not only is it MArdi Gras madness here, but today's my Birthday as well!

Never fear, Sli is here! :D

On with the show! (Tho I'm gonna haveta work VERY hard to top the ENTIRE song of 'Modern Major-General', WITH all verses and Chorus!)

:P

[Arctaris]

Pronounce it all, probably. The other two, not so much. I just googled the lyrics and then copied and pasted.
Happy Birthday Rags! Hope you had a good B-day and will have many more.

[santinj@]

Ragadolf wrote:

Yay for singa longs!

Sorry I'm late, but not only is it MArdi Gras madness here, but today's my Birthday as well!

So if I throw beads at you, you'll know what to do? Um, did I say that out loud?

Happy Birthday, Rags! Here's to you!

[FabesMinis]

I auditioned for an amateur production of 'Iolanthe' the other day, and was offered the part of the Lord Chancellor but I turned it down... not sure if I could have taken 5 months of Gilbert and Sullivan rehearsals...

[FabesMinis]

Talk about sense of wonder returned! I have no idea what these thinga are and I don't want to be hit by one. Just like the old days! Just like when my Basic D&D Elf PC got stabbed up by skeletons in a corridor.

[santinj@]

From the game thread...

JSL wrote:

AoO missed, Vesh moves back 5' into an occupied space and falls prone.

I imagine that this means that Vesh is in Corran's space, correct? What does this mean for Corran during his action? I'm assuming that Corran will have to vacate his space on his turn as Vesh won't be able to try standing up until next round.

I guess that Corran can try the same move (knocking it prone), but Ehlissa most likely won't attack a prone creature, so it being prone won't help her as much as it might allow Vesh to get up without drawing an AoO. It seems that Ehlissa and Corran's hits aren't sticking, so it might not matter as much if she can't attack it next round. Vesh, with Ameiko's dagger, might be a safer bet with Corran providing the flanking bonus and Ehlissa and Malcolm aiding.

Hmmm. Suggestions anyone?

[JSL]

santinj@ wrote:

I imagine that this means that Vesh is in Corran's space, correct? What does this mean for Corran during his action? I'm assuming that Corran will have to vacate his space on his turn as Vesh won't be able to try standing up until next round.

Yes, I think this interpretation is correct. All the rules say is that "you can't end your turn in an illegal square." Therefore, Corran can *begin* his turn in an illegal square, but must use a move action or 5' step to vacate before the end of his turn. Of course, he can attack and then fall back.

A possible exception might occur if the creature thrashs Vesh before Corran's turn. If Vesh is rendered helpless, then Corran can remain in that square.

Of course, Malcolm could still kill the creature before its action and then the point would be moot.

[Dreamer]

santinj@ wrote:

From the game thread...

JSL wrote:

AoO missed, Vesh moves back 5' into an occupied space and falls prone.

Hmmm. Suggestions anyone?

I don't have enough experience to visualize this sort of thing very well. This is a new creature, so what do we know so far?

1) These guys seem to have missed at least two AoO's so far. There may be a weakness there.
2) Thanks to Slidell's experiment, we can see that they seem to be able to resist magic, to some degree.
3) They haven't actually done any damage to the party so far. And they seem to be somewhat off-balance. Tripping might not have been a bad idea.
4) The one from the ceiling successfully disarmed the torch, but didn't extinguish it. Do they have issues with light?
5) Salome, with no weapon and a strength modifier of only +1 was able to do some damage.
6) However, these things seem to have some kind of self-healing ability.

It seemed to me that these things were a threat to the half-elf, too, right? Where is he in all of this? And what is the shiny thing? How can we tell if it's helpful or harmful?

I wish I could help more in the strategy department. :(

Word of the day: i•chor: n 1. In Greek mythology, the ethereal fluid flowing in the veins of the gods, 2. An acrid, watery discharge, as from an ulcer. ichorous adj.

[santinj@]

JSL wrote:

\

A possible exception might occur if the creature thrashs Vesh before Corran's turn.

Comforting thought.

[santinj@]

I appreciated the word of the day, thanks!

A thought: I am sitting in the Portland Airport waiting for my flight home as I write this. That's something. I can check email, listen to music or a book "on tape," and otherwise occupy myself while I wait for my flight.

I have friends who are definitely more outdoorsy. I like the outdoors; I like to fly fish and camp and hike. I used to rock-climb until my body type righted itself. I don't do much of any of that anymore.

However, I don't just mean to point out that my friends are outdoorsy. They lament modernity and read Little House to their kids and pine for "simpler times."

Don't get me wrong, Laura Ingalls Wilder rocks. I just don't get the desire to "return to the earth" or however else folks put it. The pioneers worked so hard to survive and make a living, and I suspect that they did not romanticize the process of scratching out that living as much as some of my contemporaries seem to.

Anywho, just some random thoughts as I sit here drinking my mocha, looking awfully pretentious as I type away on my laptop, waiting two hours for a forty-five minute flight to take me where I could drive to in two hours. Viva modernity!

[Dreamer]

@Rags - I can neither vouch for the safety nor the efficacy of the following, but it seemed like an appropriate belated-birthday gift for a mage:

Homemade Fireballs

[Ragadolf]

Dreamer wrote:

@Rags - I can neither vouch for the safety nor the efficacy of the following, but it seemed like an appropriate belated-birthday gift for a mage:

Homemade Fireballs

ROFL, awesome, thank you!

Look out critters, here come the fireballs! :D

[Dreamer]

Slightly bored, so it's time for a...
...Bonus spell!
Green Fire

[FabesMinis]

Yeah, Ehlissa might take a hit to her kewl powerz if she attacks a prone creature... that and it wouldn't be cricket!

That doesn't mean to say she can't try to trip it though! haha

[Ragadolf]

Dreamer wrote:

Slightly bored, so it's time for a...

...Bonus spell!
Green Fire

Hehe, Thanks again.

Um,... Just for clarification, WHICH of us is supposed to be the pyromaniac?!?

:D

EDIT- And my suggestion for TODAYS word of the day? BONFIRE, As in "Burn you ugly critter burn!"

Now, what are the odds that Slidell has some Boric acid or naphtha in his pockets,...? ;)

[JSL]

Dreamer wrote:

They haven't actually done any damage to the party so far. And they seem to be somewhat off-balance. Tripping might not have been a bad idea.

My dice will come around. I can feel it!

[Dreamer]

Ragadolf wrote:

Um,... Just for clarification, WHICH of us is supposed to be the pyromaniac?!?

This has long been my M.O.: Tell the guy next to me my mischievous idea, and sit innocently by when he gets in trouble for it. It's how I got back at my teachers for seating the noisiest kid in class next to me.

Yes, that's why that guy got detention for juggling in English class. But I had nothing to do with the toilet seat incident!

[Ragadolf]

Dreamer wrote:

Ragadolf wrote:

Um,... Just for clarification, WHICH of us is supposed to be the pyromaniac?!?

This has long been my M.O.: Tell the guy next to me my mischievous idea, and sit innocently by when he gets in trouble for it. It's how I got back at my teachers for seating the noisiest kid in class next to me.

Yes, that's why that guy got detention for juggling in English class. But I had nothing to do with the toilet seat incident!

SU-U-U-U-URE you didn't!

;)

[FabesMinis]

Is anyone else just getting p'ed off with this thing now?

The Ehlissa smackdown should hopefully lay it low.

[Ragadolf]

Pretty much, yeah. :) (Stoopid magic resistant critters) ;)

Fabes- Sorry about the post in the other thread, I was thinking Psi when I wrote it!
hehe,...
;P

[JSL]

Ragadolf wrote:

Pretty much, yeah. :) (Stoopid magic resistant critters) ;)

That's not all they resist. I'll try to put together a knowledge tree this weekend, so if you get out of this, you can learn something about them and be ready next time.

[santinj@]

PsionicFox wrote:

Hey guys, sorry I've not been on - my computer has been having trouble accessing the paizo forums...

I'm wondering if Psi's computer problems are continuing. You still with us, Psi? Hope all is well.

[FabesMinis]

This game is so Firefly. I love it.

Naelah + Salome - River + Book
Malcolm - guess who?
Vesh - Simon (sort of)
Slidell - Wash
Ehlissa - Kaylee + Inara
Corran - Jayne but nicer

[Arctaris]

FabesMinis wrote:

This game is so Firefly. I love it.

Naelah + Salome - River + Book
Malcolm - guess who?
Vesh - Simon (sort of)
Slidell - Wash
Ehlissa - Kaylee + Inara
Corran - Jayne but nicer

You're right. This is a great group.

To improve the Firefly aspect of it, I've got a list (including translations) of all those Chinese phrases that they used. Now I just need an opportunity to use them!
EDIT: I think that Sli is closer to a chattier Simon then Vesh is and Vesh is more of a Wash, IMO.

[Dreamer]

Awww, man! I was aiming for Zoe.

I would add that Naelah has some Inara in her too -- exotic, beautiful, and everybody wants her.

Ooh! That was the 800th post. Do I get a prize?