(Cracks knuckles, waggles fingers)
Ready here!
(I can always throw in more comments at the most inopportune moments, That's one of the bonuses of this character!)
;)
Hopefully, I'm not making Zieke out to be too brash for anyone. If so, let me know and I'll try to tone it down some. I'm not usually the kind of player to foster intra-party conflict anyway. And I'm not really seeking that with Zieke's character here. There's really a couple of different reasons why he's acting the way he is right now...most of which will dissipate once he adventures alongside you for awhile.
Essentially, he's not convinced of the party's status as "heroes" of Sandpoint right now, when it was the Sheriff and the town guards (including him) who were supposed to provide security. He feels like he fell down on the job and now he's overcompensating in trying to do more. He's also a little angry at the world. A lot of his dreams went up in smoke several years ago. And his trail from then to now has been rocky and unfulfilling at best. He's still trying to prove his own worth to himself...as well as the Mayor and the town. So, a lot of that psychological baggage is still being carried around with him.
Just thought I'd explain that before everyone felt Zieke was a lousy guy to keep around. Once he proves his value...and realizes everyone else's...he'll be much more subdued and less confrontational. Promise.
--Neil
Haha, ok - no worries. :D
He does come across as rather sure of himself but now that you've explained it, it's understandable as the behavior of someone who wants to reassure himself of his value in relation to others.
Ehlissa has the same problem, hence here rather childish (she's still a kid!) response to try to prove her greater experience.
All good clean fun.
There's nothing like a little conflict to develop the characters and get the group bonded. As I'm sure you're aware, there have been some interesting alliances, love triangles, crushes, and competitions -- as well as great role-playing and problem-solving moments.
I was just looking at Salome's introduction to the group. Those were fun role-playing times. (Though I, too, was afraid of scaring off the players in the process of establishing the character.) As thrilled as I personally was to join the game, Salolme had a very negative first impression of the group (especially Slidell) and wanted nothing to do with them, and couldn't understand why they kept insisting she join them. It took quite some time, as I recall, for her to be roped in and introduced to everybody. And she still has trust issues. (I've lost track, but I think we're just over a week into the story in game-time. I should go back and figure that out.)
Zieke has the advantage that at least everyone is in the same general area. We'll see how he ends up getting pushed or pulled into the group. (I can already see alliances and competitions brewing!)
Also, from a group-psychology standpoint, it's important to be able to see what a group can tolerate and what the group can accomplish; it's the "tire-kicking" phase. "Hey, can I rely on you guys to be a group that can handle me?"
Don't sweat it; we're tough.
TIMELINE SUMMARY
If I had time, I'd give a page number references, but this is what I have for the timeline (last update was 2/11 on Discussion p.17).
Day 1: Arrive and meet.
Day 2: Cathedral dedication and goblin attack.
Day 3: "My Dinner with Peacock." (Salome arrives in town.)
Day 4: Graveyard investigation; Sandpoint Heroes deputized by sheriff.
Day 5: Ameiko kidnapped and rescued.
Day 6: Market day 1, recouperate, cleanup at Glassworks, Coran departs and Vesh dances with Salome.
Day 7: Market day 2, Lonjiku's funeral.
Day 8: Return to the tunnels, Zieke joins the fun.
Any corrections/additions to offer?
Hopefully, I'm not making Zieke out to be too brash for anyone. If so, let me know and I'll try to tone it down some. I'm not usually the kind of player to foster intra-party conflict anyway. And I'm not really seeking that with Zieke's character here. There's really a couple of different reasons why he's acting the way he is right now...most of which will dissipate once he adventures alongside you for awhile.
Essentially, he's not convinced of the party's status as "heroes" of Sandpoint right now, when it was the Sheriff and the town guards (including him) who were supposed to provide security. He feels like he fell down on the job and now he's overcompensating in trying to do more. He's also a little angry at the world. A lot of his dreams went up in smoke several years ago. And his trail from then to now has been rocky and unfulfilling at best. He's still trying to prove his own worth to himself...as well as the Mayor and the town. So, a lot of that psychological baggage is still being carried around with him.
Just thought I'd explain that before everyone felt Zieke was a lousy guy to keep around. Once he proves his value...and realizes everyone else's...he'll be much more subdued and less confrontational. Promise.
--Neil
A little intra-party conflict is always fun. Zieke's not too over the top for me, although it'll be interesting to see how he and Mal end up getting along.
Hehe, no worries. This 'll be fun.
I see Zeike's attitude so far as being one of extreme self confidence. With a little of the ego that goes with it.
It's cool to know that what's fueling that appearance is not quite it seems on the surface.
(Gee kinda like RL,... )
The Million GP question is, can HE handle Slidell?!? :)
:D
Cool. It's good to know you guys aren't put off by him so far. In-character, of course, some of the PCs should clearly have issues with his overbearing attitude. But I'm hoping somewhere down the line we can roleplay him winning over some folks (Ehlissa? Salome?)...and yet continuing to clash with others (Vesh? Slidell?). I think the jury's still out on Malcolm...not enough interaction there yet for me to know how to spin Zieke's reactions. But I'm looking forward to the opportunities to come... ;)
--Neil
...But I'm hoping somewhere down the line we can roleplay him winning over some folks (Ehlissa? Salome?)...and yet continuing to clash with others (Vesh? Slidell?). I think the jury's still out on Malcolm...not enough interaction there yet for me to know how to spin Zieke's reactions. But I'm looking forward to the opportunities to come... ;)
So, you're expecting Zieke to be good with the ladies? Vesh may have some competition in that arena. ;)
So, you're expecting Zieke to be good with the ladies? Vesh may have some competition in that arena. ;)
Not exactly like that. More like respect for one another's maturity and experience...which develops into trust and true friendship. Next to Salome, I kind of view Zieke as the next oldest...which comes with a set of life experiences that have prepared him (and her) for most things. But he's nowhere near as wise as her in how he approaches life and interacts with others...often screwing things up (like how he's come across in these first few scenes). Meanwhile, Ehlissa is vastly more charismatic than Zieke, and even though he and she probably have many of the same thoughts regarding battle and valor and strategic planning of things, she's better at explaining them to people in a way that gets them behind her. Whereas Zieke is more likley to run roughshod over them and demand they fall into line. Bottom line, Ehlissa will be a better leader. But Zieke can make for one heck of a sergeant to her captain...or an advisor in much the same manner Salome can be for the party, only on a different subject (i.e., matters of the fist as opposed to the heart).
For me, I kind of view Zieke as having parts of both Salome and Ehlissa in him, while they're both better at certain things than him. And, in some things, maybe Zieke's still better than they are (e.g., outdoorsmanship, one-on-one combat, tactics, etc.)...or at least equal...which leads to the development of respect for one another. That's sort of the character development path I see opening up at the moment between these three.
And, if that path is followed and Salome and Ehlissa do come to a greater level of acceptance for Zieke, it likely makes for some of the strongest allies he could ever hope to have within the group. Meanwhile, Vesh may very well resent his acceptance into the group's inner circle...maybe even misinterpreting it as Zieke "being good with the ladies" when that isn't what's happening at all.
Meanwhile, I suspect Zieke and Slidell are going to have plenty of clashes. For all the wizard's intelligence, Zieke is going to focus more on the negative things when he's acting all crazy, forgetful, or overzealous. And I'm sure Slidell will be frustrated by Zieke's inability to fathom much of what he prattles on and on about...and consequently ignores to his own detriment. Should be lots of fun here.
Vesh and Mal seem like the discontented...in terms of accepting Zieke right now. And that probably makes a lot of sense to continue until some defining moment when they sacrifice something for one another...or unexpectedly save each other's life, etc. Zieke can feel that they don't trust him, but he likely doesn't care all that much right now. It's just boys being boys...and that whole alpha-male thing going on, I guess.
But I don't know. I like all of these characters. And I'm just thinking out loud right now as to how Zieke might fit in among them. I'm way too detailed sometimes about stuff like that. It's a character flaw of mine... :)
--Neil
I was teasing a bit in that last comment, but it will be interesting to see how things do end up playing out. Sometimes there are surprises. I had expected Salome to be a contrast to Naelah, when the two actually seemed to get along quite well. And then with Naelah's absence, Salome has kind of filled in the exotic-intuitive-spiritual role. I haven't consciously played her as "wise," though I hope some wisdom shines through.
Other people have alluded to the dynamics that occur in a mixed-race group. Without that layer, there have been some interesting dynamics in terms of abilities/strengths and gender. I really like how things have come out with characters who can complement or compete with each other, or have similar abilities from different directions (e.g., Salome and Slidell as spell-casters or Malcolm and Vesh as rogues).
I don't know whether Zieke existed as an idea before a place opened up for him, but he seems like a good match for the rest of this group. I can see an "understanding" building between him and Salome, as relative outsiders, being a little older, world-wise, and world-weary.
Heh, Thanks for the insight NSpicer.
Don't worry about 'overanalyzing' anything. As you can tell, I have a malfunctioning off switch for my own verbosity circuit!
(The only reason you haven't been bombarded the last few days is, Life and work have kinda dog-piled on me. Count yourself lucky!)
Meanwhile, I suspect Zieke and Slidell are going to have plenty of clashes. For all the wizard's intelligence, Zieke is going to focus more on the negative things when he's acting all crazy, forgetful, or overzealous. And I'm sure Slidell will be frustrated by Zieke's inability to fathom much of what he prattles on and on about...and consequently ignores to his own detriment. Should be lots of fun here.
I couldn't have said it better myself! Let the games begin! :D
See ya'all on the inside!
PS- Neahlah has been mentioned in recent posts, which reminds me, Does anyone know what happened? I know there was internet trouble,... and then,...??? I hope Neahlah can rejoin us at some future point, that character had a way of saying with 5 words what it takes Slidell 5 paragraphs to get out! (Then again, maybe Corran might show back up? I think HE would like the new guy!);) carry on!
Last night I did a quick search and saw no evidence of either PsiFox or Talion09 posting on Paizo since they left our campaign. I hope they're both OK.
Oh yeah! Monday, Monday, Monday! XP, XP, XP!
Vesh is at 4530 as of today (4/24)
I know I'm a few hundred behind the rest of the group, but I think I'm missing a few weeks of XP. :( Been too busy concentrating on keeping records on my real-life XP, I guess.
Oh yeah! Monday, Monday, Monday! XP, XP, XP!
Vesh is at 4530 as of today (4/24)
Thanks for reminding me. I always forget somehow.
*raises hand*
Umm...okay...new guy here. What's all this concerning XP? Sounds like you guys use a different method of dispensing it than I'm familiar with...
Hehe,... Yeah, I'm about 1,000 behind myself,... :)
NSpicer, our demonic DM gives a weekly XP award every Monday, as a reward for our continual participation, as well as a way to keep us progressing at a reasonable speed through the levels in a PbP format. Otherwise we might still be halfway through 1st level!
I can never remember how much Ehlissa has. If you say 4530 then that's grand.
NSpicer, our demonic DM gives a weekly XP award every Monday, as a reward for our continual participation, as well as a way to keep us progressing at a reasonable speed through the levels in a PbP format. Otherwise we might still be halfway through 1st level!
Okay. Can someone explain to me how that works? I have no idea where Zieke's starting XP would be. Presumably, I'm further behind everyone else?
I think since we have a pretty steady group again we should promote both late-commers to the full 4,530 XP so there is only one number to keep track of.
YEA! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Could you talk the BBS into doing the same thing? :)
Also, a general note on XP and advancement. 4th is the last level you are going to see in "Burnt Offerings" and you won't see 5th until we've started Skinsaw Murders, assuming we get that far. So if things slow down over the summer with travel and family vacations, etc. I will have to adjust the weekly XP to compensate. On the other hand, if we keep plowing ahead, I'm cautiously optimistic that we could get through the adventure by late July or early August (only 10 months!).
I think our rate of one game-day/month has been pretty consistent and has actually worked pretty well given the format. Does anyone have plans to be away for extended periods (i.e. 1 week or more) between now and August?
|
Does anyone have plans to be away for extended periods (i.e. 1 week or more) between now and August?
I'm not sure what I'm doing tomorrow, let alone between now and August! Let's see...I may be gone for a few days in late August (around the 23rd) and then again for about a week in early September. That last one will be for about five days with no internet connection. But it may not happen at all. I'll let you know as we get closer.
P.S. regarding the 4530 number. I'm usually pretty good about keeping accurate records, but between the magic portal encounter and now, I think a flubbed a week's count. I updated Vesh without "saving" or something. At any rate, if it's not 4530, it's pretty darned close.
I'm planning to be away from 25 May to 2 June; ironically I shall be closer to you all geographically. From the UK I shall be going to OK (lahoma that is!)
Like others, I don't have a clue what I'm doing tomorrow, much less next month!
I have no PLANS to be away, as my job at the college is year round, but I'm sure that I'll be taking a few days off somewhere. Hopefully never without access to Inets for long, though my personal time to post during the day may be curtailed!
Fabes~ We might get to pass close enough to throw water balloons at each other, If I get to visit the family during the same time! :D
I'll be going to GenCon in August. Prior to that, I don't think I've got any truly long absences planned. My wife and I will probably celebrate our anniversary (June 9th) by getting away somewhere, but we won't make those plans until she takes her re-certification exams at the end of May. So, if I check my Magic 8-Ball, all I get is "Ask Again Later" right now. ;)
--Neil
P.S. I'm holding off on posting Zieke's action until I see what the big freakin' goblin does.
My summer will be busy but I can't think of anything major that I have planned. My posting will hopefully remain steady.
Trust me, you don't want to see what the goblin does.
Well, I've still got to wait my turn so I can react appropriately. :)
12am. :D We're on British Summer Time, which is 6 hours ahead of whatever time zone Oklahoma falls under. You guys have so many!
The GREAT STATE of OKLAHOMA,
the BUCKLE of the BIBLE BELT,
falls in the CENTRAL (US) Time zone!
;)
Hey messiur DM,... a quick question
OK, not to give you any more ammo to use against us than you already have, (MINIMUM of 8 points per hit!?!? sheesh!) ;P
but here's a heads up on what Sli is planning, so you have time to look for any potential technical problems before it happens.
Sli has the spell 'Benign Transposition' from the Spell Compendium. Currently not memorized but on a scroll. (See the new 'Spellbook' spoiler on his character sheet for a copy of the full text from the book)
Note that it has a good range, willing only, does not take others with you, even if carried (So If i used it and Veran was on my shoulder, he would be left behind) My original plan for this spell was to trade places between party members, maybe to get one of the backstabbers into a sneak attack position, etc. But it can also be used to trade me with my familiar. and I was going to do that if I could have gotten it off before the critter flew through the doors. I probably would already have done it anyway, but wanted to check this with you to avoid retcons.
The question is,...
The text says nothing about line of sight. Taking it as is written, I do not have to SEE my targets to switch them, as long as they are both in the range of the spell. (So I could have cast it last round even though I could not see Veran.) Do you concur? Because if not, then I will have to risk the critter seeing what I'm doing and hurting Veran before I can cast it. It is a standard action, but verbal only, effect is instantaneous (once cast) and the movement itself does not provoke AoO.
Yada, yada,... let me know what you think. Even if you disagree with me, It won't prevent me from doing what I plan. Just might make it riskier. AND I respect your judgement enough to realize that you will have thought it through logically first either way. :)
Thank yew!
I didn't know the UK had summertime! :) I just figured it was like the Oregon Coast year-round: cool, with fog in the morning and rain at regular and frequent intervals.
The rest of the world has climate, we have weather - yesterday was sunny and warm, today is cold, grey and drizzly. It's the one thing foreigners comment on is that we talk about the weather a lot.
Our placement in a northern latitude as in island in the gulf stream leads to our having extremely variable weather.
We don't have extremes but we do go into minus C and can go up to high 20s C. We're generally moderate in most things. :D
I probably won't be able to post until after dinner tonight; it's my long day in the week. If it's my turn and everyone's waiting around, my default will be Turn Undead (I have 8 more available).
I think we need to plan out some strategy in the discussion thread. We went from Zieke's V-formation to three scattered groups in nothing flat. We know:
- BFG does minimum 8 dmg/hit
- Zombies are slow, but dangerous in packs
- Arrows are useless on zombies, but sword-slashing and Turn Undead work
Our assets:
- Lights and weapons
- Mal's DEX (he can probably handle the terrain better than anyone)
- Salome's Turn Undead, and both Salome and Ehlissa have bonuses for fighting evil
- Ehlissa's and Zieke's combat expertise
- Slidell's Magic Missiles
I don't know what Vesh's plans are in this situation.
Also, I have all my healing spells recharged, so everyone should be pretty resilient -- as a Paladin, does Ehlissa have extra healing ability?
So what can we do with all this to avoid getting killed before the monsters kill us?
The GREAT STATE of OKLAHOMA,
the BUCKLE of the BIBLE BELT,
falls in the CENTRAL (US) Time zone!;)
Hey messiur DM,... a quick question
** spoiler omitted **Thank yew!
Response:
** spoiler omitted **
AH!
For JSL~I hadn't seen that (admittedly simple) rule clarification. Makes perfect sense. Thank you.
Also, thank you for the suggestion, I admittedly had been thinking a little more selfishly about using that scroll, given Sli's mind set at the moment. What wonderful RP fodder!
'Hm, what to do, what to do?' heheh,...
:D
I think we need to plan out some strategy in the discussion thread. We went from Zieke's V-formation to three scattered groups in nothing flat.
Well, we never quite implemented the V-formation. Vesh and Slidell were left out of that so they could hold the high ground and cover us. But, yes...I was a little surprised that Ehlissa broke ranks with the rest of us to go back and check on the wizard following the appearance of the devil-thing. But she's back alongside us...so it's fine. We're about in the same situation as we would expect if we were in a V-formation with our backs to a wall. For the moment, at least...
We know:
- BFG does minimum 8 dmg/hit
I believe I can support your analysis whole-heartedly. ;)
- Zombies are slow, but dangerous in packs
- Arrows are useless on zombies, but sword-slashing and Turn Undead work
I'm assuming Zieke has little experience with them. Plus, from what I read of your encounters so far with them in the game thread, it's clear they aren't your average zombie anyway (devious DM!)...
I don't know what Vesh's plans are in this situation.
Also, I have all my healing spells recharged, so everyone should be pretty resilient -- as a Paladin, does Ehlissa have extra healing ability?
At 1st level Paladin, I'm not sure she's has the "lay on hands" ability yet.
How much of the Pathfinder Alpha rules have been incorporated around a cleric's turning ability also acting to heal non-undead? If Salome had that going for her, she could not only damage the zombies, but she'd heal Zieke as long as he's also in the area of effect.
So what can we do with all this to avoid getting killed before the monsters kill us?
There's not a whole lot of options left open to Zieke. I could have him focus on "total defense" and raise his AC by +4, but I wouldn't be able to have him attack. And honestly, if somebody doesn't keep landing blows on the BFG, everyone's in trouble. I fully expect him to go down (and into negatives) within the next round or two.
Meanwhile, the only truly effective means of dealing with zombies, appears to be Salome's turning power. So you've got to keep hammering away with that, just to change the numbers in our favor. If Zieke survives into the next round (or at least until the zombies are off your priority list), then maybe you can heal him and put him back in the fight.
But at the moment, we should really just consider ourselves lucky that Zieke was the "meat shield" that absorbed that first attack. Many of the other characters wouldn't have gotten any counterstrike if they'd been hit by that. At least, I keep telling myself that's the silver lining in this situation.
Even so, it's hard to feel like Zieke can contribute very much to the party if he's effectively eliminated on the first round of the first combat since joining you guys. I'm not even sure how I'm going to roleplay his reactions when (and if) he survives the fight. But I'll cross the bridge when it comes and keep plugging away for now...
My two-cents,
--Neil
Ehlissa does crazy things in combat; refusing healing, applying first aid to wounded spellthieves surrounded by zombies ;)
She doesn't have a military mind however much she tries; she thinks more like a duelist or a big damn hero.
I think we should withdraw and try to lure the BFG to the balcony (I assume it can't get up the stairs - please correct me if this is wrong JSL); Sli and Vesh can thus use ranged weapons and maybe we can set up flanks for Malcolm?
Or Ehlissa could run up to the balcony, leap off onto its head and "do a Legolas". Or maybe not, this is 3.5 D&D after all, where all crazy maneuveurs are difficult to impossible, no matter how cool they be. ;D
Or Ehlissa could run up to the balcony, leap off onto its head and "do a Legolas". Or maybe not, this is 3.5 D&D after all, where all crazy maneuveurs are difficult to impossible, no matter how cool they be. ;D
Yah, a (small) part of me misses D&D 2.0. My group and I read an article where we decided if you wanted to do something, no matter how crazy, just try it! Just roll a D20, add your dex mod ( for jumping off walls or backflips) or the relative stat modifier, (adjusted for difficulty of course) and go for it!
Come to think of it, We were using the 'D20' mechanic before 3.0 was ever announced! As heroes, we just figured that anybody could those things like you see in the movies, you just either had to be very good or very lucky! (Both never hurt!)
Regarding the withdrawal, what do you all think? We at least need to get back together where the guy getting pounded can at LEAST get 'aid another's on his AC. Or something.
JSL's suggestion also has merit. Slidell has a scroll with Benign Transposition. We can use it now, or I can wait a round and see what Zeike can do to this thing. Can he even survive another hit like that??!??! If not, then we can't afford to wait!
Just so you all know, "OOC" Slidell will use the scroll to save Zieke or anyone else who needs it. (Though his original intention was to use it to get people INTO combat!) But he will not be happy about it. He was going to use it to snatch Veran away from the critter.
Just so you guys will know why Slidell will be so upset about having to burn his only copy of that scroll. It's all just In Character Fun.
Also, I have a scroll of Color Spray. I don't know if this critter has Magic resistance, but if not, he can't have a high will save! At the very least he will be stunned for one entire round. That's one round of free shots for everybody!
:D
I've gone for double move. She needs to get in there.
Using Benign Transposition to switch Zieke and I would work, especially since it would then be relatively easy for Ehlissa and I top flank it, getting me sneak attack.
Alternatively, I could advance 30ft to F15. If Ehlissa moved to F13 on the following turn, we'd be flanking it and Zieke could either go on full defense or take a 5ft step and retreat. If we did this then we could save Slidell's scroll to rescue Veran.
I hope this thing doesn't have a good Perception modifier, but even if it does I might still be able to feint against it.
I'll delay my action until we come to a consensus.
I like the sound of that.
As you can tell I have the same grasp of tactics as Ehlissa :D
Regarding the withdrawal, what do you all think? We at least need to get back together where the guy getting pounded can at LEAST get 'aid another's on his AC. Or something.
I think a lot of the decision-making around withdrawal depends on Salome's success (or failure) with her next turning check. If that eliminates the zombies (or at least drives them away from the battle with the goblin), Zieke and Ehlissa both present targets...and hopefully Malcolm, too, if he ever gets in there. Meanwhile, magic missile spells and Vesh's arrows seem like they'd still be effective even from where you're standing.
Wasting more time with movement to withdraw and regroup isn't going to make our next actions as a group any more effective than they'll be where we're standing now. I'm also under the impression that the goblin wouldn't have any trouble coming up the stairs to us. After all, he had no problems moving about all that rubble and smashing his way out of it to perform a sneak attack in a single action. A little incline isn't going to stop him. He strikes me as a Medium-sized creature, not a Large one.
Lastly, all the "positional"-related benefits of having the party grouped together are already in play without us having to withdraw. Ehlissa, Salome, Zieke, and Mal are all together. It's actually better having you and Vesh somewhere safe so you can attack from range. In the meantime, as long as Salome can do her thing to keep the zombies from ganging up on us...that'll free her to cast healing spells on anyone else holding the frontline against the goblin.
JSL's suggestion also has merit. Slidell has a scroll with Benign Transposition. We can use it now, or I can wait a round and see what Zeike can do to this thing. Can he even survive another hit like that??!??! If not, then we can't afford to wait!
Zieke has 6 hp remaining after that initial blow. For the goblin to totally wipe him out (i.e., drop Zieke below -10 hp), he'd need to do 16 hp damage on his next swing. I hate metagaming it like this...but the goblin's doing 1d8+6 plus 1d6...so it's doable...but he'd have to roll fairly high. His maximum damage is 20 in one round (as long as sneak attack isn't being applied).
Now, it's a certainty that Zieke will go unconscious and drop into negative hit points on any successful hit from the goblin. But it's not necessarily a given that he'll go for Zieke again. If Ehlissa's challenge works, I believe that forces the goblin into focusing on her...at least for a little while. In the meantime, if Zieke gets another round or two before he does get dropped, that's a major amount of damage potential if he can successfully hit the thing. And again, as long as Salome is still with them, she can bring him back even if that happens.
So, I'm inclined to gamble a bit. Let's come back around at the top of initiative order. Let Salome do her thing. Let the goblin decide between Zieke and Ehlissa...determine the results. And then all of us focus in on him. Provided the zombies are eliminated, Salome will then be free to act before the goblin on the next round and heal up one of us (i.e., Zieke or Ehlissa, whomever looks worse). And finally, everyone else...from Vesh to Slidell to Malcolm...needs to hit this guy with whatever you've got.
Another two-cents from the new guy who's already on his last leg, ;)
--Neil
For the record, it is stuff like that that justifies the toughness of the enemies. If he were stunned for even one round, the party would tear him to pieces. This is both a problem with 3E save-or-die effects and the single-monster notion of encounter building. But I digress. The battle will likely be over before Slidell is in any sort of range to use Color Spray. But it would have been a brilliant (almost auto-win) tactic if Slidell were in position to use it on the first round.
Come to think of it, I do try to design encounters so that everyone can/must contribute something for the party to get out unscathed. The boss-type badguys will hit hard on occasion and may be considerably tougher one-on-one than the average PC, but they also have their weaknesses - foremost being that there are usually fewer of them than you. So while they may get one big shot, you can often retaliate with a well-coordinated 3 or 4 actions before they get another turn.
I don't mean to quibble...or come across in a negative, whiny fashion. So please don't interpret my commentary as criticism...it's mainly just observation from a game design standpoint. I'm also the new guy here...and I'm certailny not questioning the DM rulings you've applied so far...as they seem perfectly within reason.
But, the ambush aspect of this encounter kind of eliminates the ability for Slidell (or any other PC) to have an opportunity to exercise that kind of tactic. With the creatures exploding out of the rubble...and the toughest BFG getting an immediate sneak attack...it doesn't leave a lot of room for reactions. And you throw in all the challenges of the terrain (DC 15 Balance checks are achievable on a 50-50 chance or less for most characters our level)) which cut down on movement to achieve flanking or maneuvering for placement of area effect spells...and it's kind of a perfect storm for really putting the PCs at a disadvantage.
The goblin is also quite powerful for a group of 3rd level heroes to face...even with our higher than average number of party members. With the zombies included in the encounter, they effectively tie down the cleric (for at least a round or two). The sneak attack (which has a greater than 50-50 chance of succeeding with a BAB of +9) will quickly incapacitate the first target (or kill any low hit-point PC outright with a damage curve that high).
And the ongoing fight is still going to be tilted in favor of the goblin. Even though he's facing more attackers with more actions, his attack stands a much higher chance of succeeding every round than all of the others he's facing. Plus, with his hit points, it's fairly clear he'll last several rounds even if he does get hit...because none of us can match the damage he's dishing out. He's at least on par or better than two of us put together. And he can inflict damage at about twice our average rate as well. So those elements kind of compound things.
Overall, I think this encounter has a really high difficulty level for us. It's a situation where at least one PC could very easily and realistically die outright. And the potential is there for a TPK, as well, depending on how the dice fall. That's just my observation...and admittedly, I know it comes off sounding like a biased complaint, even if I don't mean for it to...
Regarding the knight's challenge: I will double check, but I believe at first level the only benefit is that Ehlissa gains a bonus. The creature is not compelled in any way until later levels.
I have no idea how that works. I don't even own the book that details the Knight class. So you're quite probably correct. (darn it!) ;)
--Neil
(Tried to reply, it wouldn't copy all of the previous statement,... :P)
First, a BBEG (WHAT do those stand for anyway?!?) HAS to be tougher than an 'average' encounter. IMHO, That's what they are. BUT, EVERYbody has a weakness of some sort. Fighters can be charmed, Wizzies can be pounded flat, etc. Even if a DM designs a very tough monster with vulnerabilities that his group can exploit, it doesn't matter if they don't use those vulnerabilities.
(Example- a new monster vulnerable to sound can take a party apart if the bard fires arrows instead of singing, or if the bard is snuck attacked in the first round,... ;P)
I don't mind the monsters being tough. I LIKE challenges. Easy might be fun for a little bit, but ends up boring. (Oh look, another Dragon? Lets kill him and count his hoard!) I don't even mind a monster that can put a 3rd level Slidell into negs in one hit. (That's not saying much, I know!) As long as we get a chance to fight it. I refer to a post I read about a final battle with a BBEG being a Pit fiend or Balor. The high level group went in guns blazing, and got thier @$$%$ handed to them. They escaped, the mage did some research, they prepared, and the rematch ended up with an 'easy victory' for the party! (OK, Sorry, /Ramble OFF)
I also like the fact that our DM has taken the time and trouble and touched up all the monsters (even the basic zombie,) and changed them enough that we don't know what we're facing! This is like playing D&D for the first time, back when I didn't even know what all the numbers on my 1E character sheet meant!
Thanks for the 'role-playing' complement JSL! (I think!) Honestly, if SLi had gotten a 20 init he probably would have missiled the lil creep, but his posted reaction seemed in character, and no one had been hurt by the big guy yet! So,... ;P
All in all, I'm ok with however you want to play it. I honestly like the fact that we usually play without over-strategizing. Just post and react to the others post. That makes the game feel more 'real', which is better than my old group, where we could take an hour or two for one round of combat, because we over planned everything, and usually won due to great planning, but it took SO long, and would never happen that way outside of a movie.
That said, I don't want nobody dyin' on my watch! Let's get'im!
:D