I have a player that wants to join the Seekers, who gain affiliation ranks based on the dead languages they know. So what constitutes a 'Dead Language' in Greyhawk? I looked at the languages in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and there are some ancient languages like Baklunish and Suloise. Do those languages qualify. What other languages do?
Any info from those in the know would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
The old Flan dialects would count. There really is no name for it other than Ancient Flan. I also use an Ur-Flan (Urzhade) ritual language in my games that is a lost tongue.
Velondi is technically a dead language, though rural folk still speak it in the backwoods of Veluna
Ancient Baklunish (think Sanskrit compared to more modern perseid tongues)
Ancient Suloise (This and current Suel dialects are not the same, or shouldn't be)
Those are really the only ones I know of excepting monster languages. I've been trying to add more aspects of this into my games. There should be a older form of Oerdian as well.
The Seekers should also give credit for someone learning an obscure Language, especially if they don't have too many other member that speak it. Like Lendorian Elvish, a very obscure tongue only spoken on the isles of the same name. Just a few suggestions.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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In the case of Flan, Oeridian, Baklunish and Suloise, the ancient forms and the currently spoken forms are still the same language. I'd count Suloise as a dead language since it's generally only spoken as a language in the courts, churches, and governments (the Scarlet Brotherhood being a notable exception). Baklunish is still actively spoken in most western nations, and Flan is still spoken amongst various tribes and in the nation of Tenh. Oeridian is still spoken as well.
With all due respect Russell, I choose to use those languages as different dialects, regardless of what the setting says. I decided, much as this poster is asking, what the proliferation of dead/lost languages in Greyhawk works out to be. And in my opinion, there are not enough lost languages.
In some of the printed sources, (various parts of the Vecna modules for instances) the dialect of Flan spoken by the people of Cavitius is undecipherable without a good deal of effort, even by those who speak Flan. The languages are related, but not the same.
This is all, of course, in the purview of the DM, but much as English is a derivative of Latin, it is not the same language as French or Spanish.
I use Ancient Suloise as such. It is a root language that many modern dialects have come out of. I realize that this creates more work for the DM, but I find it adds flavor to my Greyhawk that I and my players appreciate.
I have also added a mechanic in my game that allows someone who speaks a related language a chance to understand root or derivative dialects of the same base language. Again, a bit more work, but well worth it in my estimation. For example, someone who has studied Ancient Suloise, can with some effort, experience and hearing the spoken differences in syntax, understand, speak and possibly write in Keolandish (an Official Greyhawk, Suloise dialect).
Just my take on this.
I treat Suloise and Ancient Flan as dead languages IMC, and I have Ancient Baklunish and Old Oeridian as old languages. I view Common as modern counterpart to Oeridian. And there are modern variants of Baklunish at least, probably of Flan as well.
Stefan
This is all, of course, in the purview of the DM, but much as English is a derivative of Latin, it is not the same language as French or Spanish.
**unable to resist**
English isn't a derivative of Latin. Although ~60% of the words in English have Latin roots, the structure of the language is Germanic.
Carry on.
El Skootro
DM's call here--I'd include all the archaic languages from the early history (i.e. up to the heyday of the Oeridian Great Kingdom in the 1st and 2nd centuries CY) "dead languages. Sure, Old Oeridian is only a few centuries out of date, and an educated resident of the Great Kingdom successor states might be able to piece together something written in that language today. Just like I can piece together Chaucer with a little bit of effort and imagination. But Middle English is still a dead language and so is the older form of Oeridian.
I'd also add things like the language of the Spellweavers, and any other obscure writing systems that might be discovered in ancient ruins or strange locations. (If there were inscriptions in/on the Egg of Coot or the crashed space-ship module in the Barrier Peaks, whatever language they are written in would also qualify, even though these languages are extra-planetary or extra-planar in origin.
The point is that the Seekers are adventurer-archeologists, and so they hold anyone who has skills in epigraphy (the study of inscriptions) and philology (the study of dead or obscure languages and their writing systems) in high esteem.
Velondi and other rustic dialects that don't have a written form and are still spoken by the local yokels in certain regions don't qualify as a "dead language," both because they are not dead yet and because they are useless for the projects of the Seekers.
Edit: Depending on what kinds of inscriptions you want to leave lying around in the ancient ruins of Tamoachan and the central plateau of the Isle, you could quite conceivably include Abyssal (a living extraplanar language, but in the context of these ruins an obscure language once used by the devotees of certain demon lords). You could also include Ancient Olman (surely different from the dialects spoken today on the Isle, since the islanders probably haven't preserved their writing system). And if the Kopru or Aboleths left inscriptions in their own languages, those might qualify as well. Even Draconic might be added to the list, depending on how you envision that language being used in the present.