Well-written details or staggering plot twists?

[GreatNPowerfulAahz]

Try as I might to accomidate players with a great descriptor of where they are and what they see, I find that my story-telling uniqueness isn't in the details but in the linking of great plots that brings the characters lives together that really hit home. I like to give them a bit of freedom to choose where they go and what adventures they will go on, but I am worried that without the obvious "Villain A has been defeated so on to Location B" storyline they will feel that the adventure has no cohesion. What would you do in this situation? Any help on the topic would be appreciated.

[Molech]

My advice,

Well first, FORGET about giving a "great descriptor of where they are and what they see." It's pointless. Give a good description ONLY once you've got the players interested in the campaign -- which is probably NEVER at the beginning. Now, once the Players are emotionally invested into what's going on, introduce the encounter or whatever with a "great descriptor." Then use sparingly and only when you're well prepared.

But that's just a general rule that may not help you out immediately so perhaps try this:
Have the Players make detailed descriptions of the PCs' backgrounds. Then, once you have a lot to work with, build a campaign around it.

If a guy wants to play a rogue that ran from his wealthy parents' expectations -- have the Player detail the family members and their Noble estates. Then work with him on it. Now you've got a Player who knows where he comes from and the DM knows what he wants to do to the PC. Remember, a young (1st lvl) rogue doesn't know all the angles on the family dynamics -- Auntie Iggwilv is an enigma and cousin Iuz is just wierd...

A chick wants to play a street urchin that some wizard finds and sees her magical potential -- have the Player create the NPC. You get the idea.

The one danger -- make sure you let the Players know that the NPCs they're making belong to the DM. The DM has to own the NPCs, not the Players. Again, work with the Players (w/out giving away your plans) so the young sorceress who initially makes the NPC master wizard accepts what he does 4 months into the campaign.

-W. E. Ray

[Molech]

PS. Aahz rules!

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

GreatNPowerfulAahz wrote:

I like to give them a bit of freedom to choose where they go and what adventures they will go on, but I am worried that without the obvious "Villain A has been defeated so on to Location B" storyline they will feel that the adventure has no cohesion. What would you do in this situation? Any help on the topic would be appreciated.

Thats really going to depend on your group. Some players absolutely despise railroad tracks. They basically always do the opposite of whatever the DM wants just so that they can feel they have control over their characters. For this type of group you need to let them choose what they want to do.

Other groups are pretty much the opposite. They showed up at the table to experience awesome adventures with flights of dragons and world cracking events. Bring on the drama - bring on the excitement! Such players are generally keen to follow your story line 'cause thats where the action is.

most groups fall somewhere in between but probably lean fairly strongly in one direction or the other.

The first group indicates they want off the railroad tracks by trying to do things that your adventure did not call for. Usually involving them going of to do and visit people in cities and towns as opposed to racing for toward the cave when the DM drops a hint that the cave is were teh adventure is.

You generally know you have players more in the second group when they seem lost if the adventure does not offer direction. Their waiting for you to get the show on the road and talking with the towns people does not seem like its really worth their time.

If you don't know where your players stand try having the initial adventures offer a little of both options and see which options grab their attention.

[GreatNPowerfulAahz]

I appreciate all the help, thanks again. My party is already coming up with backgrounds and I'm hoping this will be memorable for them. On my last homebrew I had three of the players beg and plead for a new campaign so I'm just trying to live up to their expectations.

[Savage_ScreenMonkey]

GreatNPowerfulAahz wrote:

Try as I might to accomidate players with a great descriptor of where they are and what they see, I find that my story-telling uniqueness isn't in the details but in the linking of great plots that brings the characters lives together that really hit home. I like to give them a bit of freedom to choose where they go and what adventures they will go on, but I am worried that without the obvious "Villain A has been defeated so on to Location B" storyline they will feel that the adventure has no cohesion. What would you do in this situation? Any help on the topic would be appreciated.

Its very difficult to try and provides the details of a game world. For the most part Im not so sure you really need to. I think as long as your provide a basic description of whats at hand you will be providing enough.My players tend to ask questions to clarify anything they might want to know more about anyway.

I think that every adventure you run should have a basic beging middle and end that provides the players with a sense of completness.However this said adventure could have any number of unresolved issues, and its these points that will help provide your over arching plot lines with a sense of cohesion.

I try to get as much feed back from my players as I can.I ask them what they like and why they liked it. What they didnt like and why. what their character goals are. what they would prefer I do or not do. In the end every group is diffrent and experiance is the only real way to figure out the best way for you and your group.

As far a character bios go. Ive discovered that a short bio is generally better than a long in depth one. In a short background a player can provide more than enough detail to aid the DM, and if his character kicks the bucket and then cant or dosent want to be raised no big deal. As the DM you can always ask for more info on a need to know basis.

[Rezdave]

GreatNPowerfulAahz wrote:

I like to give them a bit of freedom to choose where they go and what adventures they will go on, but I am worried that ... they will feel that the adventure has no cohesion.

My own campaigns are entirely Player-driven. The inaugural adventure always spring-boards from the backstory of a PC, and from then on they choose where to go and what to do. My advice (simply as I think of it, and in no particular order):

1) Have a meta-plot and situations evolving in the background and environment, but have the PCs unaware of it until 5th level. They should only witness the effects of the metaplot, but have no idea of the causes, or even that events are related. Around 5th level they can get tangentially involved, and from there offer them opportunities to become more deeply involved at 10th level if they desire. Be prepared for them to walk away from it, however;

2) Always have three adventures ready to go at any given time. Plant hooks throughout the current adventure or in downtime and let them choose where they want to go. They can pursue the adventures they want, while other NPC parties can complete other tasks. Don't forget to occasionally have the PCs hear a bard singing the exploits of a different adventuring band completing an adventure the PCs chose to forego :-)

3) Offer well-developed NPCs and encourage (and reward) interactions and extended associations with NPCs. They can springboard many adventures, and not just when in distress or needing rescue (as so often is written into "adventure hooks");

4) Listen to the Players themselves. My last campaign ran through a sequence of urban adventures from mid-1st through early 4th level, when the party decided to journey to the hinterlands to visit the childhood home of one PC (vacation to see the family) and an NPC specialist living nearby to whom the wizard had received a letter of introduction. While traveling through the wilds, one Player remarked OOC that "things have been really fun so far and I like all the role-playing, but a good old-fashioned dungeon crawl would be a nice change of pace." That off-hand comment launched them into a "side-trek" from which the resulting RP caused the campaign to re-center from the main city in the north to this small community in the wilds from 5th-15th level, which the PCs have been instrumental in promoting to develop into a major regional trade center and political force;

5) As they become more powerful, allow the PCs' actions to re-shape your own world (see above). Keep them within reasonable limits, of course. 3rd level PCs can impact a hamlet, 5th level PCs a village or neighborhood, 12th level PCs a city and 16th level PCs a kingdom. Let them have their influence, but don't let them get ahead of themselves;

6) NPCs NPCs NPCs ... ultimately NPCs and RP will be the keys to a Player-driven campaign. Allow them to build relationships in which they're personally invested (emotional and perhaps even financially);

7) Be a lazy DM. By that I mean allow the Players to "DM themselves" as much as possible, defining the world around them and running their own cohorts and NPC interactions wherever possible. Approach the game as an exercise in "group storytelling" and try to get the Players to do the work so you can sit back and listen to the evolving story. Just be aware that despite appearances, you're not being lazy but have your internal wheels racing to keep a step ahead of everyone else;

8) Maintain the focus in-session on issues that are of interest to the entire party, and have PCs deal with personal matters in down-time. There is a tendency among some Players to interpret "role-palying" and "Player-driven" as a license to delve into the minutiae of day-to-day fantasy life that is fascinating to them but boring to everyone else. Keep the group focused on moving the "story" forward. Movies are described as "life with the boring parts cut out" and your game sessions should be the same way;

9) Keeping #9 in mind, allow adventures to focus on the interests of one or another character. Rather than rescuing NPCs, most of my party's adventures were driven by a desire to help advance the personal or career goals of one or another member in turn. I ran the campaign as a series of "story arcs" focusing on an issue tied to a specific PC, but with each one consisting of several adventures that might have a specific appeal to different PCs from one to the next. Thus, during the "wizard story arc" there might be a need to eliminate the cult of an evil deity for the cleric or paladin, an urban investigation for the charismatic rogue and finally a large-scale military siege led by the fighter all in the effort to help the wizard recover a family heirloom that his distant relations claimed as their own but he needs to safeguard lest it form the heart of a fell artifact.

I've probaly written these basic suggestions and more in other posts on this topic over the years. They're in my post-history somewhere if you're inclined to search them out, and those threads may have some good suggestions from others like Greer, Logue, etc. as well.

HTH,

Rez