Well, my party encountered the first masher last night. The Druid used Dominate animal to actually make the masher help dislodge the boat from the reef by "mashing" the coral. But the spell only laster 5 rounds... then they had an angry masher on their hands again...
Heres the delima. The druid tried to argue that the masher might not have an attitude of hostile. He wanted to use wild empathy to adjust the mashers attitude. I looked at the chart under the diplomacy skill and determined that the masher was trying to eat the PC's and , therefore, had an additude of HOSTILE (call me crazy LoL)
The druids player then said "okay fine... but if every animal we meet on the isle is hostile that is seriously going to nerf my abilities". Which then turned into a short debate on what makes an animal have the attitude of "hostile"
So thats my questions... Do you think the mashers should be Hostile? The T-rex? Terror birds? Heck... All the predators that try to kill the PC's on the isle? Or are they just hungry animals with no "malace" towards the PC's? What would constitute a hostile animal? LoL do they have to actually have rabies or an evil alignment? :)
Help...
Generally speaking, if it's trying to eat the PCs, it's a hostile creature. If it's defending its lair, it's a hostile. Ditto defending young, defending kills. Some creatures are hostile if startled (certain dinosaurs). But if an animal isn't trying to eat the PCs, defend its mate/lair/young/lunch, or otherwise controlled/out of its mind, it shouldn't be hostile. Indifferent or unfriendly are more likely. Look at what the critter is doing, then decide.
Are you hostile to a delicious hamburger or pizza that you happen to wander across? Probably not. An animal won't necessarily be hostile to the PCs, even if the animal in question ends up deciding to scarf up some grub and the grub in question happens to be the PCs. The masher is defending its lair, possibly mistaking the boat for some sort of predator or competitor, so it is fair to call it hostile, but the chocobos that try to eat the tyrannosaur carcass later on are unfriendly at worst and can probably be persuaded to leave the survivors alone.
As a rule of thumb, I'd say if combat hasn't actually started, a hasty wild empathy check might prevent an immediate attack if the roll is sufficiently high. Once the animals takes the first bite, however, its instincts are going to kick in. If the animal has suffered a magical attack such as Dominate Animal, of course, it is irrevocably hostile.
Are you hostile to a delicious hamburger or pizza that you happen to wander across? Probably not.
No, I am not... but I might be extremly hostile to said burger/pizza if I was required to stalk it, then chase it down and violently assault it with my claws and teeth before I could consume it.
For wild predators... hostility is a way to get food. For us... food is already dead, cooked, and wrapped up in a nice little wrapper, thus requiring no hostility (other than dealing with the incompetent teenage staff at your local Mc D's drive through LoL).
Thoughts?
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Stick to your guns. On the Isle of Dread, the silly Druid is indeed nerfed. But don't simply make it a "Its hostile and your diplomacy is weak" kind of situation. Stress to the Druid the "Unnatural savagery" of the creatures on the isle. However, to mitigate his feelings, throw in some "Wild Empathy" encounters: A pride of lions stalking the party due the stench of Terror Bird blood on their clothes, etc (cautious perhaps). The druid can change their attitude easily enough. Throwing a few bones the players way is a good idea.
Creative Director
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I actually think that you shouldn't nerf the Druid on the Isle... that'd be like telling a fighter he can't use melee weapons in a gladiator campaign, or that a thief isn't allowed to pick locks in a trap-infested dungeon. The Isle of Dread is heavy with hostile animals, it's a true wilderness, and if a druid character doesn't end up being one of the more important characters during this section of the campaign, then that's a terrible shame.
Wild Empathy isn't an instant win against animals, remember. It takes a minute to use, after all, since it basically works the same way as Diplomacy. Even if you allow the "fast diplomacy" trick and let a druid use the ability as a full-round action, he's got a –10 penlaty to the roll. Plus, he has to basically beat the animal/dinosaur's initiative to pull this off, and if other PCs in the group attack the dinosaur before then... the bet's off anyway. AND: there's plenty on the isle that can't be undone by wild empathy; demons, vermin, humanoids, etc.
If the party (and especially the druid) seem to be having fun, then the game's running correctly, even if the DM might think that the PCs are walking all over the place.
I actually think that you shouldn't nerf the Druid on the Isle...
I totally agree James... I don't intend to "nerf" the Druid. As a matter of fact... this is the type of adventure where a Druid should be shining through...
I just don't want to debate every animal encounter with him...
Druid: "are they hostile?"
DM: "yes"
Druid: "why?"
DM: "becasue they want to kill you and eat you etc..."
Druid: "well... that doesn't necessarly mean they are hostile.. they are just hungry....
DM: "sigh..."
LoL
I was just looking for a consensus on what constitutes a "hostle" animal. But this is all really good advice none-the-less! ;)
I actually think that you shouldn't nerf the Druid on the Isle...I totally agree James... I don't intend to "nerf" the Druid. As a matter of fact... this is the type of adventure where a Druid should be shining through...
I just don't want to debate every animal encounter with him...
Druid: "are they hostile?"
DM: "yes"
Druid: "why?"
DM: "becasue they want to kill you and eat you etc..."
Druid: "well... that doesn't necessarly mean they are hostile.. they are just hungry....
DM: "sigh..."LoL
I was just looking for a consensus on what constitutes a "hostle" animal. But this is all really good advice none-the-less! ;)
"hostile" to my mind means - "will not mince unnecessary words with the characters, if even possible, will threaten and attack them if possible (even if risky) , and may even go out of its way to chase /harass them off its territory"
The Masher very likely considers the PCs "edible and tasty", teh "sae Wyvern a form of funny packaging akin to a clam shell and hance attack both to get at its "food".
If the urge to feed upon your dead (hopefully) carcass without any respect for your opinion on this matter s not "hostile" I haven't got an idea what is.....
Just btw, the GM is always right - and the druid obviously falls prey to some dogmatic prerogative whichg does not match reality....
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Hostile is certainly appropriate for a combat situation where the animal is actively attacking. That being said, the animal empathy rules state that domestic animals are generally indifferent and wild ones are unfriendly. So, if they encounter the creature before combat ensues, Unfriendly would be appropriate.
If the class ability counts as the Diplomacy skill, then I'd say it was reasonable to make a rushed Animal Empathy at the same penalty (-10). That's a pretty hefty penalty to start, so bringing a hostile animal to even unfriendly is extremely hard for a lower level Druid.
I think that the Player's concerns are valid as well. If you make all animal encounters hostile from the get go, then the class ability has little value. I suggest that you present opportunities for the druid to use his empathy ability in ways that would contribute meaningfully to the campaign. You can't have a druid ending all animal encounters with a dead animal; that's just not the druid way.
Of course, the whole situation can be avoided with a good charm animal spell, followed up with the empathy check. :)
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Some thoughts...Is the druid usually a little ahead of the party or clomping around with the all the noisy, metally, oily smelling people? If he/she's a little ahead, the beasts might not be as aggresive towards him then if he was with the rest of the party and hence start off as unfriendly as opposed to hostile. Kind of like being a little curious/concerned with a single police officer coming into your place of work as opposed to a couple squad cars or a SWAT team.
Here's a question for you, let say it is night, and you are rolling for random encounters. You happen to roll 1-3 T-Rexes, now, these animals are basically on the hunt, picked up the scent of the characters, and followed thier nose. At the point they enter the camp, they would be considered hostile...correct? Or would you look at it like you went deer hunting, you aren't pissed at the deer, (even if you sat up in that stand for 12hours waiting for it).
In a case like that, how much time before the T-Rex enters the camp would you give the PCs to react?
Here's a question for you, let say it is night, and you are rolling for random encounters. You happen to roll 1-3 T-Rexes, now, these animals are basically on the hunt, picked up the scent of the characters, and followed thier nose. At the point they enter the camp, they would be considered hostile...correct? Or would you look at it like you went deer hunting, you aren't pissed at the deer, (even if you sat up in that stand for 12hours waiting for it).
In a case like that, how much time before the T-Rex enters the camp would you give the PCs to react?
Well yes the T-rex's would be hostile...beacuse hunting/killing/eating their prey requires hostility...no hostility, prey lives, they don't eat.
As for the deer hunter senario...you cannot compare a human with intelligence and logic capabilities to an animal. As I said before.. if every time I wanted to eat I had to chase down another living creature and bite/claw it until it bled to death... I would need hostility to survive or I would suck at hunting and starve...
How much time would I give them to react? Well T-rex's aren't very stealty, so I'd imigine they'd more than likely hear them stomping towards the camp... I'd give them 2-3 rounds of warning at least...
Are you hostile to a delicious hamburger or pizza that you happen to wander across? Probably not.No, I am not... but I might be extremly hostile to said burger/pizza if I was required to stalk it, then chase it down and violently assault it with my claws and teeth before I could consume it.
For wild predators... hostility is a way to get food. For us... food is already dead, cooked, and wrapped up in a nice little wrapper, thus requiring no hostility (other than dealing with the incompetent teenage staff at your local Mc D's drive through LoL).
Thoughts?
click here for a hostile hamburger story. o:)
I would tend to agree Stedd ;)