Too clichéd or not too clichéd? (TINH Spoilers)

[carborundum]

Well, my resourceful party made it to Parrot Island and found the way into the caves. They also brought a few pets with them and searched the area with their Scent ability before carrying out 360 degrees Detect Magic & Detect Evil around the clearing.
I didn't want them to discover Vanthus, so ...well, they didn't.

That also meant it would be a bit ridiculous to have him spring from nowhere and immediately cut the rope. I'm torn between letting them get out safely since they were cautious and attentive, or letting Vanthus annoy them even more by having him seal them in anyway.

I figured he could have followed them from the city or been invisible up a tree in the area. I could then let them hear some crashes while they're busy fighting off zombies and when they go back to the entrance they could find Shefton's corpse and the rope, with the opening sealed.

I don't want Vanthus to be too god-like and deus ex machina though - so hands up who thinks it's just a bit too clichéd that he seals them in anyway having avoided their bloodhounds, dire otters and detection spells.

[Fake Healer]

If Vanthus doesn't seal them in then unfortunately the party doesn't start the building up of hatred towards him for a while. My party almost died under Parrot Island and blamed Vanthus, swearing to bring him to justice. Then he escapes their search attempts a few times, and the hatred builds, then they find out that he was behind the Vanderboren parents death, and they want him bad!
I would say he had taken a couple of potions while on the island to hind from them (let the party find the vials when they escape the tunnels). The party needs to hate him, its fun!

FH

[Grimtk1]

My vote would to not punish the party for being proactive. Unfortunately, this means that you won't have that wonderful moment written into the adventure.

However, I can attest that your party can still hate Vanthus without Parrot Island. The group I'm DMing for was just goofing around and decided to explore Parrot Island before the Vanthus set up. They had cleared the dungeon before I could even introduce Vanthus looking for them.

What I ended up doing was tweaking the parade ambush and made them hired by him to kill off the PCs for ruining his plans. I just had one of them yell "Vanthus sends his regards" as they attacked. That coupled with the devastation they experienced with the Savage Pirates and all was enough to turn up the hate for Vanthus

Hope this helps.

[Guy Humual]

carborundum wrote:

I figured he could have followed them from the city or been invisible up a tree in the area. I could then let them hear some crashes while they're busy fighting off zombies and when they go back to the entrance they could find Shefton's corpse and the rope, with the opening sealed.

I like the idea of Vanthus (or some unknown henchmen) following his sister's 'flunkies' around as they search for Vanthus. These people are potential trouble after all. When he sees (or hears of) the PCs picking up blood hounds and the like he takes time to stock up on "cat-stink" (I think that's what it's called), an old alchemical substance that throws dogs off the sent, buys a potion of invisibility, and then goes to the island and makes sure his sent is all around that opening. After the PCs arrive he uses the stink around the base of a tree that he hides in (should be a good distance from the clearing so the PCs have major penalties to their spot) and waits for the PCs to enter the shaft. Should the PCs use the bloodhounds around the island . . . Vanthus waits till they’re close before using the potion to keep out of sight.

Vanthus shouldn't be all knowing, but he should be played as dastardly and cunning as need be, and if the PCs kick it up a notch Vanthus should be allowed to bring his 'A' game. Vanthus should always feel one step ahead of the PCs. Vanthus shouldn't be able to do anything you can't explain though, and if the PCs do a complete search of the island Vanthus should simply flee . . . ideally taking the PC's boat or boats.

[carborundum]

So if I let them find their (expensive) bloodhounds heads at the bottom of the shaft beside Shefton's corpse, and there's a hole in their boat, that should be fine?

I like it.

[Tessius]

carborundum wrote:

So if I let them find their (expensive) bloodhounds heads at the bottom of the shaft beside Shefton's corpse, and there's a hole in their boat, that should be fine?

I like it.

with the empty vials and a note stuffed in the dogs' mouths, "You'll have to be smarter than that...Say hi to Penkus(?) for me"

[carborundum]

Ooooo sweet! They've only been on the zombie side of the caves so far, so the Penkus message will have the same effect.

Since they're being so clever, I think I'll drop a bloodbloater swarm in the water for them to find on their way to Penkus too. That'll teach them!

[Kirwyn]

Or have some fairly neutralish only slightly evil pals of Vanthus do his dirty work, saying" Vanthus said to say hi to Penkus for him!" hahaha have a great time in the pit boys...

And so on. Minions are the way to go. All big evil bad guys have them, Just ask Scooter Libby.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Generally speaking I'm all for letting the game play out and the chips fall where they may. However this is a key act of the drama that is going to be unfolding over the next year or two of game night. Very occasionally a DM has to step in and Deus ex Machina a situation. I think its very important that Vanthus traps the players down here - they need to know he tried to kill them. They also need to know that he is the one that has trapped them down here. You can work out some way to justify how he killed the dogs afterward.

Essentially the dynamic between Lavina and Vanthus is the one really constant strong thread that runs through the entire campaign. There will be demon lords and Shadow Pearls and a plot to destroy the world but all of these are kind of periphery themes that take place around the interplay between Vanthus and Lavina. I'd play up this thread strongly at every opportunity and in this particular scene I'd Deux Ex Machina Vanthus trying to kill the players. Thinking about it I think this is the one and only scene in the campaign I'd allow story to trump what the players have done as 99.99% of the time I think the DM should just allow things to run their course.

[carborundum]

I don't want to miss the scene either - especially as I'm a firm believer in the 'show, don't tell' ethic and the players relationship with Vanthus needs to set off on the right (wrong) foot. His actions here will have far-reaching effects and hopefully get the players personally involved.

I'm DM-ing for a new group and they are much more strategic than my old group, who were more for story and RP over rules. Hence my slight apprehension of pushing it too far. Hell, if I let them find Vanthus' stash of smell-cancelling oils in the Lotus Dragons' hideout they'll retroactively justify it all themselves. All he needed was invisibility, fly and no smell after all. Maybe the kobold cook made the no-scent stuff for him. Whatever.

Thanks for the impassioned justification, I'm even more confident now that it's the right way to go.

[Czar]

Deux Ex Machina all the way.

My players outsmarted Vanthus by standing up his guide, waiting 2 days then creeping up on Parrot Isle at 3 am. I ruled vanthus did not have the patience to wait around, and they were never locked in.

The result- PC motivation for the next few sessions was limp.

[el_skootro]

Just read how you resolved the issue:

carborundum wrote:

Dead Mount: Big Jim, trained Dire Otter mount

Adventure: There is No Honor
Location of Death: Parrot Island
Catalyst: Vanthus, who refused to be thwarted

(Very) Long Description: The party had hypnotized Shefton and knew to expect trouble. They left him happy in a bar and set off to catch the evil Vanthus. After tying up on Parrot Island they left the boat under the watchful eyes of Big Jim, the friendly yet lethal Dire Otter mount of the halfling spellthief. They then performed a full CSI-style investigation of the island, scanning for Evil and Magic in all directions until finding the entrance to the tunnels. Every direction, that is, except up.

Unbeknownst to the party, they'd interrogated Shefton in a bar round the corner from the Lotus Dragons base. Vanthus heard of it, had Shefton picked up, grabbed a few potions and followed them invisibly from the air. While the party were busy underground he killed Shefton and had some ixits kill the hapless otter.

The party stumbled back from fighting zombies and finding Penkus. Imagine their surprise to find the entrance closed. Imagine their shock to find the body of the hapless Shefton, topped by the bloody head of their dear pet and ally, Big Jim. And to add insult to injury, a note stuffed in his mouth telling them to stay out of Vanderboren business.

Excellent job sir.

El Skootro

[carborundum]

Thanks a million! It was fun. They were shocked. Shocked, I say! There was talk of taking spoons to Vanthus' eyes and feeding them to Jim's family. They can't wait til the next session now :)

[Guy Humual]

Very cool! Vanthus is definitely a great villain. Glad to hear he's earning the ire of your party as well!

[MrFish]

I think you handled it well. It can be tempting to let pc cleverness be daunting but you also need to keep them motivated and interested--I think you juggled it nicely. Poor Big Jim.