It could just be how they're being played, but in my Shackled City Adventure Path that I'm DMing, there is a Cleric and a Druid. The Druid routinely puts out more of an offense than the Cleric.
The Druid summons, wild-shapes, and is extremely clever with his spell list (most of his prepared spells are from the Spell Compendium, I should note - I think the PHB Druid spells are rather weak). Mostly, his judicious use of Summon Nature's Ally spells, and Cometfalls, and wild shape when has has to be in a fight (usually combined with a follow-up 'Bite of the...' spell to max out his Str/Dex/Con).
The Cleric (a Cleric of Kord, and thereby a bit more likely to be a front-line fighter), uses his spells well, but I find he's not hammering the foes quite as much as the Druid.
Also, no one expects the Druid to patch the group up, so his spells tend to last longer.
I think the PHB Druid spells are rather weak
Here we disagree! I have a druid in my campaign right now, but even without the fresh reminders of their power, I can tell you that druids are an extremely strong class. This halfling druid that I DM for has used absolutely nothing outside of the PHB, and is unsurpassed for power in our party (there have been times when people have tied him for effectiveness in a given situation, but never exceeded him).
Yes, druids are awesome elementalist blasters, right from level 1 with produce flame. At 5th level, when you gain call lightning, your need for a melee weapon is greatly reduced. Whenever you would attack, instead call down 3d6 electricity damage. It's only better with call lightning storm. Plus, if you ever run out of blasting abilities, you can always turn into a bear or something once you have wild shape.
All the PHB races are good, but druids are one of the best. They can definitely fill the role you are looking for.
Creative Director
|
Hmmm.
I misremembered, it would seem. Yet still... you can mess up elementals with the fire type pretty good... salamanders, fire elementals, ummm... thooquaas...
STILL. Being able to snuff out fires like instantly always catches the DM off guard. They're always all chuckly about "the house is on fire, you have only 3 rounds to save the baby and get out" and then the druid's like "ORLY? QUENCH!" and then the DM makes the angry face. It's awesome.
(James is a little punchy today, btw... got the last ever issue of Dungeon approved by Wizards of the Coast today.)
|
STILL. Being able to snuff out fires like instantly always catches the DM off guard. They're always all chuckly about "the house is on fire, you have only 3 rounds to save the baby and get out" and then the druid's like "ORLY? QUENCH!" and then the DM makes the angry face. It's awesome.
True dat. Though as I'm usually the DM, and have a druid playing player on these boards, I might just hope he doesn't see this thread.... ;-)
(James is a little punchy today, btw... got the last ever issue of Dungeon approved by Wizards of the Coast today.)
*Sigh* ..... don't know what to say ..... :-(
|
|
This post should go somewhere in the Nerd's Scrapbook. I think I'm honestly sad....
(James is a little punchy today, btw... got the last ever issue of Dungeon approved by Wizards of the Coast today.)
I have two issues of Dungeon in a bag here under my desk (for reference - going to run Flood Season after work, and running Valley of the Snails in a pbp game), and had a sudden urge to flick through them for reassurance...
|
Director of Narrative
|
I'm currently playing a fighter/cleric of Kelanen who is rocking out some nice damage and providing a good amount of healing/buffing support. I got this idea from a player in my last campaign that had a dwarven fighter/cleric that I was impressed with. The only thing I think a druid would have over it is the offensive spell list.
With the correct preparation, a spirit shaman (from Complete Divine) can absolutely rock. Incorporeal undead, fey, elementals, and astral forms are easily dealt with by the Chastise Spirits ability. The Ghost Warrior ability means they never need ghost touch armor or weapons. Spirit Form lets them scout better than the party rogue for one minute or gives them a quick getaway. Recall Spirit can restore a newly dead (one round) character to life, stabilized at -1 hp, as if he never died. They gain the benefits of spontaneous casting AND preparing spells with Metamagic feats by "retrieving" their spells each day (using the druid spell list). Take the Spontaneous Healer feat and they don't even need to retrieve cure spells. Take Spontaneous Summoner and they don't need to retrieve summon nature's ally spells, either.
(James is a little punchy today, btw... got the last ever issue of Dungeon approved by Wizards of the Coast today.)
~sad Sigh~ Damn. I am very sad too James. We will all miss Dungeon. Weasels of the Coast really screwed over the people that love the magazines. ~pats James' back, but does not say any more since nothing will make it better~
I'm currently playing a fighter/cleric of Kelanen who is rocking out some nice damage and providing a good amount of healing/buffing support. I got this idea from a player in my last campaign that had a dwarven fighter/cleric that I was impressed with. The only thing I think a druid would have over it is the offensive spell list.
I know there was a thread dedicated to this recently, but could you post your build? I'm currently playing a half-orc cleric of Kord (no fighter levels yet, but I'm considering it), although it's only a two PC group (and no gestalting, either). I'm finding myself really pressed in choosing whether to fight or buff/heal each round, but maybe the unusual party size is part of that.
I'm currently playing a fighter/cleric of Kelanen who is rocking out some nice damage and providing a good amount of healing/buffing support. I got this idea from a player in my last campaign that had a dwarven fighter/cleric that I was impressed with. The only thing I think a druid would have over it is the offensive spell list.I know there was a thread dedicated to this recently, but could you post your build? I'm currently playing a half-orc cleric of Kord (no fighter levels yet, but I'm considering it), although it's only a two PC group (and no gestalting, either). I'm finding myself really pressed in choosing whether to fight or buff/heal each round, but maybe the unusual party size is part of that.
A level or two of barbarian might be better, both mechanically (no multiclassing penalties) and conceptually (Kord being a deity of barbarians). The rage bonuses on top of some of the cleric buffs are pretty nice, too. What level are you at?
You could probably adapt the Rage Mage PrC into a divine spellcaster (damn, I should have thought of this before) by giving it d10 HD, full BAB, and changing some of the abilities. I'll dig out my Book of Exalted Deeds (for Champion of Gwynharwyf), Complete Divine (for Warpriest), and Complete Warrior (for Rage Mage) and see what I can come up with.
We just hit 6th level last session. I'd go barbarian, but there's that whole "can't cast spells" thing, or getting fatigued if I want to stop and cast some spells. The problem is that my DM is currently in a mood where he'd like to stay away from supplements as much as possible. I'm not sure, but it seems that he just prefers the simplicity of the game without them and is dismayed by the amount of crap many of them contain. He may also have a feeling that using them is like somehow "cheating," but again, I'm not sure. I'll try and talk with him some, so that I can at least pick up practiced spellcaster if I multiclassed.
Anything you can come up with, DP, I'd appreciate! I may be able to modify it enough that he considers it something "I made up," which he will then allow. If I could just take a feat that would allow spellcasting in rage, that'd be awesome... but I don't believe any such things exist.
Oh, the other character is an orc (not half-orc) barbarian, and that +4 Str (plus a belt boosting it) and rage and power attack is making my damage look pretty wimpy by comparison. That, also, may be skewing my experience.
I present to you the Spellrager of Kord. I hope you like it.
Spellrager of Kord
A spellrager is a divine caster that channels the furious power of his deity to enhance his spellcasting with his rage ability. Most are barbarian/cleric worshipers of Kord, although barbarian/rangers are not unknown.
Requirements
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Base Attack Bonus: +5
Skills: Concentration 8 ranks, Intimidate 5 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 5 ranks
Feat: Combat Casting
Spells: Able to cast 2nd level divine spells
Special: Rage or frenzy ability
Special: Must have Kord as a patron deity
Hit Dice: d10
Skills: Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Perform (Weapon Drill) (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str). Skill Points per level-- 4 + Int modifier.
Advancement:
Base Attack Bonus: +1 per level
Saving Throws: Fortitude is a good save, Reflex and Will are poor saves
1st- Furious Casting
2nd- +1 level of divine spellcasting
3rd- Rage +1 use/day
4th- +1 level of divine spellcasting
5th- Fearsome Fury
6th- +1 level of divine spellcasting
7th- Rage +1 use/day
8th- +1 level of divine spellcasting
9th- Tireless Rage
10th- Spell Fury, +1 level of divine spellcasting
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Spellragers do not gain any proficiencies with weapons and armor, but can use any weapons or armor with which they are already proficient.
Furious Casting (Su): Drawing on the fury of their patron, spellragers gain the ability to cast divine spells while in a rage or frenzy. In addition, all divine spells cast while in a rage or frenzy use the spellrager's character level as the caster level for determining effects, spell penetration, etc.
Spells per Day/Spells Known: When an even-numbered level is gained, the spellrager gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class he had before gaining spellrager levels. He does not gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character had more than one divine spellcasting class in which he could cast 2nd level spells, he must decide at each even level which class to improve.
Rage (Ex): At 3rd level, and again at 7th, the spellrager gains one additional use of rage or frenzy per day.
Fearsome Fury (Su): At 5th level, the spellrager strikes fear in the hearts of his enemies. On entering a rage or frenzy, the spellrager makes an Intimidate check. All foes that enter a 30 ft. radius while the rage lasts must make a Will save with a DC equal to the result of the Intimidate check or become shaken for 1d4+1 rounds (or the duration of the rage, whichever is longer). If the spellrager has at least 5 ranks in Perform (Weapon Drill), he gains a +2 synergy bonus on the Intimidate check. This is a mind-affecting, fear-based effect.
Tireless Rage (Ex): At 9th level and higher, a spellrager no longer becomes fatigued at the end of his rage.
Spell Fury (Su): At 10th level, a spellrager can cast a spell of 4th level or below as a swift action when raging, as if he had used the Quicken Spell feat, but without adjusting the spell's level. He may use this ability once during each rage.
The most offensive priest I ever met was not wearing deodorant! ~runs, ducks, and covers from the flames headed my way~
Dragonchess Player, I bow to you! Regardless of whether or not my DM allows this class, I'm absconding with it and putting it in a file for future use. This is great!
Dragonchess Player, I bow to you! Regardless of whether or not my DM allows this class, I'm absconding with it and putting it in a file for future use. This is great!
I think the most difficult decision was the one between 2 + Int and 4 + Int on the skills. After comparing it to the Warpriest, I decided to go with 4 + Int and add the Knowledge (Religion) requirement. I didn't want to make it too good of a prestige class. If it's a bit much, you can consider reducing the HD to d8 or dropping the skills to 2 + Int.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Dragonchess Player, I bow to you! Regardless of whether or not my DM allows this class, I'm absconding with it and putting it in a file for future use. This is great!I think the most difficult decision was the one between 2 + Int and 4 + Int on the skills. After comparing it to the Warpriest, I decided to go with 4 + Int and add the Knowledge (Religion) requirement. I didn't want to make it too good of a prestige class.
The class looks good. My only question is: Why require a chaotic good alignment? Why not just 'Any Chaotic?' Isn't Kord CN? I know Tempus (the FR equivalent) is, but I wasn't certain since my Greyhawk deity knowledge is quite poor.
The class looks good. My only question is: Why require a chaotic good alignment? Why not just 'Any Chaotic?' Isn't Kord CN? I know Tempus (the FR equivalent) is, but I wasn't certain since my Greyhawk deity knowledge is quite poor.Dragonchess Player, I bow to you! Regardless of whether or not my DM allows this class, I'm absconding with it and putting it in a file for future use. This is great!I think the most difficult decision was the one between 2 + Int and 4 + Int on the skills. After comparing it to the Warpriest, I decided to go with 4 + Int and add the Knowledge (Religion) requirement. I didn't want to make it too good of a prestige class.
Kord is Chaotic Good. If you wish to adapt it, just change the alignment requirement to match the deity (CN for Tempus, for example).
That, and Kord isn't really that close of a match to Tempus, from what I know of both deities (although the PrC applies to both well). Kord's as much about luck and good heartedness as he is battle, whereas Tempus is more solidly a war deity.
At any rate, being a half-orc generated by point buy, my cleric gets a grand total of 1 skill point per level. If I could get my DM to accept the 4 points per level, I would be thrilled (in fact, if I can get him to go for the thing at all, I'll be thrilled). I wouldn't have any problem reducing the HD, either. I've had just a d8 thus far, and it's doing me well.