Stupid Questions about the Great Wheel


3.5/d20/OGL


I actually had a whole bunch of these but I forgot most of them. Will post them as I remember (unless I forget again).

1: If the Astral Plane has the timeless quality; how do the Githyanki grow up and grow old?

2: If the Prime Material Plane is in the center of the Great Wheel; where are the Outlands and the Inner Planes?

3: Also; if the Prime Material Plane is in the center of the Great Wheel, where would the alternate Material Planes go?

4: Supposing that in the Eberron setting there is really is a place for everything from standard D&D; where would Sigil fit in?


Brianfowler713 wrote:

I actually had a whole bunch of these but I forgot most of them. Will post them as I remember (unless I forget again).

1: If the Astral Plane has the timeless quality; how do the Githyanki grow up and grow old?

When one leaves the astral, time catches up with them. As such, a five-year old who lives on the plane for five years will be a five year-old until he leaves the plane or visits a region where the timeless quality is stripped (such as by the corpse of some dead gods), after whicht time he'd immediately have the body of a ten-year-old. To avoid dramatic and potentially traumatic suddent growth spirts, githyanki children are often raised on a dead god or on the prime material plane.

Brianfowler713 wrote:


2: If the Prime Material Plane is in the center of the Great Wheel; where are the Outlands and the Inner Planes?

According to Planescape, the definitive guide to the multiverse, there is no center to the universe. It can be said that the prime material plane is at the center insofar as it is between the outer planes and the inner planes, but it is not at the center of the outer planes.

Brianfowler713 wrote:


3: Also; if the Prime Material Plane is in the center of the Great Wheel, where would the alternate Material Planes go?

In third edition, each material plane has their own set of inner and outer planes. Which I find dumb. However, in first and second edition, there wasn't a plurality of prime material planes, but a single, prime material plane. all the prime worlds dotted it, and were separated by phlogiston (see spelljammer). Basically, all the D&D worlds set on the prime were on the SAME prime material plane, which wasn't just a single planet but many.

Brianfowler713 wrote:


4: Supposing that in the Eberron setting there is really is a place for everything from standard D&D; where would Sigil fit in?

Eberron was designed absent from the great wheel. One of the great premises of the great wheel, that one may go to the heavens and meet the gods is in opposition with the feel eberron was going for. Also, eberron is supposed to be a world without heaven or hell, where death was simply oblivion.

However, eberron is actually very easy to shoehorn into the great wheel cosmology. The world Athas (from the dark sun product line) was in a similar situation, and had no connection to the outer planes. Once can simly assume that eberron has no direct connection to the inner or outer planes, but exists floating in the prime. Eberron has it's own unique demiplanes that orbit it in it's border ethereal, and there are a few small ways to get into the true planes from eberron. Possibilities include vortexes from fernia to the elemental plane of fire, Risia to Cania on baator, as well as the acid glacier in gehenna, and other such paths. It should not be *easy* to get from eberron to the planes, but it's far more interesting if it's possible. Eberron PCs could be *the* first to travel to the outer planes and determine the verity of the existance of their gods.

Hope I answered your quesion.


Sucros wrote:
When one leaves the astral, time catches up with them. As such, a five-year old who lives on the plane for five years will be a five year-old until he leaves the plane or visits a region where the timeless quality is stripped (such as by the corpse of some dead gods), after whicht time he'd immediately have the body of a ten-year-old. To avoid dramatic and potentially traumatic suddent growth spirts, githyanki children are often raised on a dead god or on the prime material plane.

5: So around the Dead Gods the Astral Plane is no longer Timeless?

Sucros wrote:
Eberron was designed absent from the great wheel. One of the great premises of the great wheel, that one may go to the heavens and meet the gods is in opposition with the feel eberron was going for. Also, eberron is supposed to be a world without heaven or hell, where death was simply oblivion.

6: Actually I was meaning to ask about Sigil; the city in a wedding ring with portals from everywhere and the Lady of Pain. How would you fit Them into Eberron?


Brianfowler713 wrote:
6: Actually I was meaning to ask about Sigil; the city in a wedding ring with portals from everywhere and the Lady of Pain. How would you fit Them into Eberron?

Hmm...

Well, there are quite a few ruins in Xen'drik and any one of them could be a portal to Sigil, or alternatively, an ice-encrusted portal in the Frostfell dating back to the Age of Demons. The rajahs could have been trying to siphon off planar energy. The Lady of Pain could be a fused couatl/rajah, similar to Tira Miron.

Just sayin'. :D


"5: So around the Dead Gods the Astral Plane is no longer Timeless?"

Some of them. Some of them also have gravity. Each dead god can effectively have it's own set of rules up to the DM. It's perfectly reasonable, for example, for a dead fire god to have the fire dominant trait.


Surely this means there are ancient, powerful githyanki who can no longer enter the Material Plane for fear of centuries old age catching up and snuffing them out?


I don't think they'd get to be that old. The ruler of the Githyanki devours any that reach Level 16 in any class.


Jonathan Drain wrote:
Surely this means there are ancient, powerful githyanki who can no longer enter the Material Plane for fear of centuries old age catching up and snuffing them out?

That's actually exactly what happens in Neverwinter Nights 2. There's a big fight with a githyanki leader that's apparently in some form of planar or temporal bubble, and the objective of the fight is to break the magical device generating the bubble, after which the githyanki dies when untold years of suspended agin catch up with her body.


There was a spell in second edition that would prevent time catching up with the githyanki for small short forays out of the astral, printed in "A guide to the astral plane" IIRC. But yes, there are some githyanki that will avoid leaving the astral, as they are past their due.


Saern wrote:
Jonathan Drain wrote:
Surely this means there are ancient, powerful githyanki who can no longer enter the Material Plane for fear of centuries old age catching up and snuffing them out?
That's actually exactly what happens in Neverwinter Nights 2. There's a big fight with a githyanki leader that's apparently in some form of planar or temporal bubble, and the objective of the fight is to break the magical device generating the bubble, after which the githyanki dies when untold years of suspended agin catch up with her body.

7: All my info on the Githyanki state any reaching 16th level or higher are brought to the Lich Queen and devoured by her. How do these Githyanki get to be so old without getting "The Honor of Meeting Her Majesty?"

Liberty's Edge

They can age without gaining xp or levelling up. Age does not equal character level.


Mothman wrote:
They can age without gaining xp or levelling up. Age does not equal character level.

But isn't their whole society kind of "Bear eat Wolf eat Dog"? How do they live to such an age without acquiring more and more power? And if they do have to acquire power, how do they do that without going up levels?


Saern wrote:
That's actually exactly what happens in Neverwinter Nights 2.

Duuuuuude! I haven't gotten to that part yet....Spoilarz! :P

Liberty's Edge

Brianfowler713 wrote:


But isn't their whole society kind of "Bear eat Wolf eat Dog"? How do they live to such an age without acquiring more and more power? And if they do have to acquire power, how do they do that without going up levels?

True to an extent, but they are ways to acquire power, and stay at the “top of the pack” without gaining character levels – acquiring wealth, political power, military rank etc are not necessarily tied to character level (although they often would be).

Also, they would be aware that the Lich Queen tops them if they get to 16th level, so would stop advancing to avoid that fate. Since they all must abide by this, there’s no other githyanki of higher level to oppose them (apart from the queen) when they reach this level.

Githyanki society may be evil and military based, but they have “normal people” too, just like any society. A githyanki shopkeeper or career soldier who is good at his job and doesn’t piss anyone off could conceivably live for hundreds of years without achieving high level or have much fear of getting assassinated or whatever.

Of course a very rare few Githyanki do manage to escape the Lich Queen and advance to higher levels, but they must effectively hide completely away from githyanki society to do so.


Mothman wrote:
Of course a very rare few Githyanki do manage to escape the Lich Queen and advance to higher levels, but they must effectively hide completely away from githyanki society to do so.

8: What ECL is the Liche Queen anyways? Or what was it last known to be?


Lilith wrote:
Saern wrote:
That's actually exactly what happens in Neverwinter Nights 2.
Duuuuuude! I haven't gotten to that part yet....Spoilarz! :P

Woopsee! Well, I didn't reveal any of the dialogue, and once you get to that fight, it's fairly obvious what's going on. :) Although, I have to say that game portrays the githyanki much, much more like the githzerai overall.


Saern wrote:
Whoopsee!

It's okay, you're forgiven. :)


Brianfowler713 wrote:
Mothman wrote:
Of course a very rare few Githyanki do manage to escape the Lich Queen and advance to higher levels, but they must effectively hide completely away from githyanki society to do so.
8: What ECL is the Liche Queen anyways? Or what was it last known to be?

IIRC, she's a Wiz30 with a heck of a temper. :) Not sure what the LA on githyanki is, so I can't give you an ECL, but I shudder to think why it would be necessary. Also, there's no 'e' in lich, unless it's plural. ;)

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