I'd recommend a slightly modified "standard party."
1. One wizard (or sorcerer, if you must, but honestly the extra level of spells half the time is worth as much as the additional spells per day, if chosen wisely). Keep full spellcasting progression at all costs!
2. One straight cleric, with Extra Turning and the Sun domain (or Radiant Servant, if you do the whole "splat-book" thing).
3. One character with max Str, full BAB, a 2-handed weapon, and Power Attack.
4. The last character should certainly have max Search and Disable Device for the beginning of the campaign, and then eventually segue into a combatant: a Rogue/Fighter/Assassin, maybe. Alternatively, one of our PCs was an Unfettered (from Monte Cook's "Arcana Unearthed") who fit the bill nicely.
At a glance, I'd recommend a cleric, wizard, barbarian or ranger, and bard. If you use it, artificer from Eberron is an invaluable choice; otherwise, a scout (Comp. Adv.) is a good alternative.
While rogues are very useful early and mid, and in many ways, in some of the later levels, their sneak damage has to be compensated for with regards to creatures immune to it. For the rogue-lover, check out the Disruptive Attack variant from PHB2, or Skullclan Hunter PrC from the Miniatures Handbook.
On the whole, having a full cleric and full wizard will give you constant access to the resources you need to survive at high-level play, while giving you a wide variety of abilities throughout the path.
Recently finished AoW. The RSoP was brilliant! (pun not intended) The PC saved the party's butt on many occasions and really shone (both literally and figuratively) in the final two adventures. I'd also recommend one heavy-hitter-type fighter with maxed out combat capabilities. A sorcerer will work better than a wizard if the player chooses the right spells. Some of the adventures allow for very little downtime so a wizard won't always have time to prepare the right spells or otherwise maximize his potential. The fourth PC should be a rogue, but the player should change his emphasis around 10th level (give or take) from finding and disabling traps to social skills. The rogue player should also consider enhancing his combat capabilities somehow since the cleric's will be reduced somewhat by taking the RSoP PrC.
I'd recommend a slightly modified "standard party."
1. One wizard (or sorcerer, if you must, but honestly the extra level of spells half the time is worth as much as the additional spells per day, if chosen wisely). Keep full spellcasting progression at all costs!
2. One straight cleric, with Extra Turning and the Sun domain (or Radiant Servant, if you do the whole "splat-book" thing).
3. One character with max Str, full BAB, a 2-handed weapon, and Power Attack.
4. The last character should certainly have max Search and Disable Device for the beginning of the campaign, and then eventually segue into a combatant: a Rogue/Fighter/Assassin, maybe. Alternatively, one of our PCs was an Unfettered (from Monte Cook's "Arcana Unearthed") who fit the bill nicely.
Oddly enough, this is almost exactly what I've got. Hmm, now I have to start the Inquisition up to find out if any of my players are reading these boards...
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We just started, and I must say my players surprised me. 2 elves, a half-elf, and no dwarves! 3 characters are multi-classing and the cleric refuses to heal others. 4 characters have charismas 15+. I'm thinking I'm going to have to modify a few adventures to prevent some TPK's. My party consists of:
- Human cleric of Hextor (posing as cleric of Law & War)
- Half-elf rogue/druid/bard (aiming for Fochlucan Lyrist PrC)
- Human paladin of Pelor
- Human wizard/warmage (aiming for Ultimate Magus PrC)
- High elf ninja (raised in Twilight Monastery)
- Grey elf rogue/wizard (aiming for Unseen Seer PrC)
While rogues are very useful early and mid, and in many ways, in some of the later levels, their sneak damage has to be compensated for with regards to creatures immune to it.
We made up a weapon enhancement to take advantage of a few 1st-level spells introduced in the Spell Compendium. It's a rather pricey addition, but the rogue in my group swears by it now.
Anystriking
Price: +2 bonus
Property: Weapon
Caster Level: 1st
Aura: Faint (DC 16) divination
Activation: —
This weapon seems to quiver, as if anticipating its next attack.
An anystriking weapon can inflict precision-based damage (from the sneak attack, skirmish, sudden strike, or similar abilities) against any creature type, including constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and undead. The weapon does not grant such abilities; it simply allows their use against creatures that are normally immune to them.
This ability does not bypass a creature's resistance or immunity to any other type of damage, such as immunity to critical hits, miss chances for incorporeality, or partial resistance to additional damage (such as from armor of fortification).
Projectile weapons bestow this property on their ammunition, though the range at which the precision-based ability is not changed.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, golem strike, grave strike, or vine strike, sneak attack, skirmish, or sudden strike ability.
Cost to Create: Varies.
My party has had quite a bit of success in Age of Worms. There has been two PC deaths and one cohort death so far and they have just started Library of Last Resort. The party composition is as follows:
Human warlock/paladin of Freedom
Human cleric of Obad-Hai/contemplative
Dwarf fighter/exotic weapon master
human rogue/fighter/shadow dancer
human wizard (cohort)
elf ranger/occult slayer (cohort)
Any self-respecting rogue in AoW needs to utilize the spell 'Grave Strike'
The rogue in my game has a ring of spell storing which he has the party cleric keep stocked with Grave Strike. (since the target is self)
I have a very non-standard party. This has worked heavily in their favor too.
1) Half-elf savant/Archivast: The savant's academic lord acts as a second knowledge check, allowing the character to use the better of the two rolls. Combine this with the savant's dark knowledge ability and get's nasty. As of SOLS the arcahvist can give the party +3d6 to damage against outsiders or undead on the right roll.
The one weekness is that as DM, I have had to add/change scrolls to help her be able to gain spells.
2) Kobold ninja/sorcerer: Combine the ninja's sudden strike with lesser orbs of electricity or scorching rays for a nice damage combo. Since both spells are weapon-like spells, I have allowed dark knowledge to add to it.
3) Human Battle Dancer: Armed with a long spear she is the primary combatant. She is a more combat oriented monk and functions much the same way.
4) Human Marshal/Artificer: He is the face of the group. With an 18 Charisma and the abiility to motivate Charisma, he can con or charm nearly anyone. Not to mention boost his Use Magic Device rolls. He can also augment the rest of the party, while serving as a back-up mage, healer, or fighter.
A cleric that can turn undead is a must for this adventure path, as is a dedicated wizard or sorcerer. I would tend to agree with the notion that a sorcerer may be a better choice, simply because there aren't that many spellbooks available in the path as written. A frontline fighter with a high AC, lots of hitpoints and lots of stopping power is also essential. I think a paladin could be a good choice and a particularly interesting character for adventures late in the path. You can make do without a rogue if your magic users are willing to scribe some utility scrolls and you play pretty circumspect. I would use a monk, ranger or another durable fighter type instead, maybe multi-classed as a rogue.
I agree. A skillful character (i.e. someone with lots of skill points) will still come in handy with all of their normal retinue of abilities, but sneak attack isn't that great, so you may want to gain trapfinding, then take a class that's a bit sturdier but still gets a good amount of skill points.
I've finally convinced four players to play through the Age of Worms. We're going to sit down and create characters Friday night and start off the Whispering Wind. I've read that a cleric or paladin that moves into Radiant Servant of Pelor is quite effective. I've also read that rogues are a little short changed in some of the scenarios. What do you guys consider to be a good mix of characters and character progression paths to use on the path?
Three comments on party composition: combat effectiveness for all charaters is very important and there are a lot of supernatural encounters, so spellcasting is highly important, as well; there is a powerful longsword/short sword set to be found at some point in the AP, so a two-weapon fighter might be a good option; skills are very important in some of the adventures.
Going full splatbook mode, I'd recommend the following:
1. Beguiler 9/Rogue 1/Daggerspell Mage 10
2. Cleric (Pelor) 6/Radiant Servant 8/Sacred Exorcist 6
3. Ranger 11/Tempest 5/Wormhunter 4
4. Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Archmage 4
The beguiler acts as the locks/traps specialist (and possibly as the party negotiator) and is the main disabler against living foes, the cleric provides massive anti-undead goodness and powerful healing, the ranger acts as the main melee or missile combatant (favored enemies aberrations, undead, and evil outsiders give the most benefit), and the wizard provides arcane might and acts as a secondary missile combatant.
That Anystriking ability’s a bit powerful for a +2 weapon quality!
I'd say that this is about right. The divine wrath weapon enhancment in the Magic Item Compendium is +1 and adds a d6 + Charisma bonus damage to an undead when in the hands of a Paladin. Seems easily comparable.
A cleric that can turn undead is a must for this adventure path...
You really think so? I won't argue that they'll sure come in handy but I find undead so sub par for their CR that I don't really think turning itself is really all that critical. Admittedly the players will have to get used to the idea that they will encounter lots of baddies with the undead type but that type is pretty specific and one you have gone out of your way to make sure you can counter it I'd think the players could get buy without turning per se. I doubt one can get buy without lots of healing however and suspect that some kind of divine caster is needed if not so much for the anyi-undead spells then at least for all the parties healing/buffing needs.
A cleric that can turn undead is a must for this adventure path...
While that seems to be the case from the start, I found turn undead loses its power fast, especially when high-level undead have big turn resistances and hit dice. Instead, I recommend the Sacred Purifier PrC from Libris Mortis, which provides a positive energy damage-oriented substitution for turn attempts. I recommend a cleric with a high Charisma and Extra Turning once or twice with this build. Also recommend Divine Metamagic, too. Nothing says "undead slayer" like a cleric whipping out two Bolts of Glory (Spell Comp) at 13th or 14th level--spontaneously applying Quicken Spell to one--at the simple cost of two sixth-level spells and five turn attempts.
Kirth Gerson (sp? sorry) Has a great mix. I havn't finnished the campaign, but I have had 3 TPKs and a group that self destructed out of game over personalities. All the TPKs were intersted in "trying new things" and didn't stop to do the old things well. I would recommend a wizard over the sorcerer. Versitility is key. Have fun, it is a great campaign!
Oh yeah, the Warmain from Monte Cooks Arcana Unearthed is a great tank too!
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My group just got finished with the Dopplegangers in Greyhawk and are about to take on the Mindflayer and his drow minions in their lair. We've had 3 party deaths so far, but quite a bit of success all around using the Gestalt character rules from Unearthed Arcana. The current mix is:
Human Fighter-Favored Soul (St. Cuthbert) 9
Half-Orc Fighter-Rogue 9
Half-Orc Fighter-Cleric (Kord) 9
Human Sorcerer-Druid 9
We're about to add a 5th player, so I'm not sure how that will affect things yet. Not sure what the new guy will be playing, but someone mentioned a magic user-rogue type.
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At a glance, I'd recommend a cleric, wizard, barbarian or ranger, and bard. If you use it, artificer from Eberron is an invaluable choice; otherwise, a scout (Comp. Adv.) is a good alternative.
While rogues are very useful early and mid, and in many ways, in some of the later levels, their sneak damage has to be compensated for with regards to creatures immune to it. For the rogue-lover, check out the Disruptive Attack variant from PHB2, or Skullclan Hunter PrC from the Miniatures Handbook.
On the whole, having a full cleric and full wizard will give you constant access to the resources you need to survive at high-level play, while giving you a wide variety of abilities throughout the path.
I agree. I've played through about half of it with no wizard or straight class cleric, and we missed the lack of healing, turning,and utiltiy magic immensly. We didn't even have a dedicated two-handed power attacking melee character! We only survived because of a house rule called fate points that you'd spend to alter events in the game. Do not repeat our mistakes.
I'm a big believer in the most basic choices. IMO a cleric, fighter, wizard, and rogue fill all the necessary roles. Multiclassing or going with alternate choices inevitably dilutes one or more of the basic functions you'll need. No class fights better than a fighter; no class provides attack spells better than a wizard, etc etc etc...
Of course, the best mix is the group that players have the most fun with.
Regards,
Jack
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I would actually say that barbarians generally fight better than fighters. Fighters have a bit more diversity due to their feat choices, but a raging barbian will outdamage the fighter every time. The ideal four person group to take on the meatgrinder that is Age of Worms would be a barbarian, cleric, wizard, human druid with one scout or rogue level and able learner to keep trapfinding/disarming skills maxed. You need to be able to do massive damage in a short period of time. That means lots of spell power plus raging two-handed power attacks.
I though I would toss this out just in case you ended up with someone wanting to go either the archivist or druid route.
WOTC introduced a druid spell called bone talisman on their website that allows a druid to turn undead as a cleric. It is an interesting spell and I decided to add it for the archivist in my group. It serves as a nice connection to the Order of the Storm (and helps to explain why the druids were effective against Kyuss in the first place.
Major roles must be filled.
1. Wizard
2. Fighter
3. Rogue
4. Cleric
After that anything else is just extra. Some multi class builds fill these major roles good enough as well. Here is what I got for a party in Forgotten Realms.
Human Favored Soul of Helm - Full plate bastard sword cleric/fighter hybrid
Human Paladin of Tyr - Full plate sword and shield
Human Rogue/Fighter/Dervish/Acrobat - scimitar
Half-Drow Ranger/Fighter - dual short swords
Dwarf Barbarian/Fighter - great axe
Halfling Wizard/Incantar - yup he's min/maxed
They had some trouble early on with healing but the Favored Soul has since taken leadership and gained a 10th level cleric of Helm that I made up as a cohort. Also they are in the middle of SoLS and have suffered two PC deaths in this module, which is the first time in the whole campaign.
Best party:
1. Cleric of Pelor or Heironeous
2. Cleric of Olidammara
3. Cleric of Kord
4. Cleric of Boccob or Wee Jas.
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Main issues are always:
Someone to absorb melee damage
Someone to do melee damage
Someone to do ranged damage
Someone to heal
Someone to buff
Someone to scout
Someone to "thief" (detect/remove traps secret doors etc)
Someone to "know"
Someone to nuke
Someone to talk
Probably missed a few...
Now every class does more than one of those. Rogues can scout and thief and do decent melee or ranged damage. Fighters can absorb damage and deal melee or ranged.
Down side is if you look at your party and more than one or two of these are missing, and you will be hosed at some point. So yeah, classic fighter rogue wizard cleric can hit everything, but it also might not.
A fighter who wants to play a light armor crossbow specialist will not have the feats and gear to absorb damage or deal much in melee.
Try to cover the main bases and you will be fine.
2 clerics and 2 paladins (2 pair).
or 1 cleric, 1 wizard, 2 paladins (1 pair with ace high).
maybe 4 paladins (4 of a kind).
perhaps 1 cleric, 1 wizard, 1 barbarian, and 1 paladin (flush).
seeing the set of intersecting values?
of course, 4 monks could be fun! (another 4 of a kind - if done right)
basically, whatever the players have fun playing.
Barbarian, rogue, wizard, cleric of Kyuss.