I haven’t yet started Savage Tide, mainly due to everyone’s schedule being crazy and the group not having time for D&D (What with things like: births, marriages, holidays, moving homes, changing jobs etc). After months of hovering around this forum and getting some great tips for when we finally do play the ST –we are ready to embark on this exciting new campaign! I’m so nervous and just hope I can do the adventure path justice!
So what I wanted to ask was:
Where in the path are you up to now?
How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?
Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?
How much time (in real life) has it taken you to get to where you are now?
What do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?
I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)
My players all have a back-up character (or four in one paranoid players case) and I have informed them it’s going to be a toughy. Good idea?
How do you feel mixed alignment parties will fare in the ST?
Do you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?
That’s all folks. :)
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I'm only part way through the first magazine - my party's starting to poke around the Taxidermist's.
My biggest suggestion for this AP is to seriously brush up on the grappling rules. They're fairly complex, and a -lot- of things in the first adventure grapple (rhadogessa, zombie pirates) so you'll need to be familiar with the rules. There's other monsters later on that also grapple - lots of improved grab.
Remember that while it's not in the stat block, the Rhadogessa can use improved grab on creatures it's own size instead of one size smaller as normal.
As for the rest, I highly recommend using a few cards to copy out the basic stats of creatures - it'll save page flipping and manual referencing. I also do the same thing with spells I may need to have NPC's cast and special abilities.
I haven’t yet started Savage Tide, mainly due to everyone’s schedule being crazy and the group not having time for D&D (What with things like: births, marriages, holidays, moving homes, changing jobs etc). After months of hovering around this forum and getting some great tips for when we finally do play the ST –we are ready to embark on this exciting new campaign! I’m so nervous and just hope I can do the adventure path justice!
----ANSWERS BELOW!!!!!!!
So what I wanted to ask was:
Where in the path are you up to now?
-----We are currently playing "Into the Maw" the first magazine where the party enters the Abyss, and they are sure surprised at what happens right off the bat... (me too)How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?
------You will def want to make sure Lavina (the party benifactor) has a strong tie to at least one (preferablly more) members of the party. I have found her to be one of the few things that kept motivation/interest with the storyline until they find out about the shadow pearl threat (but that happens much later).
Also, creatures with DR were pretty prevalent in the lower levels and this was a big challenge for the players.
There is a huge issue with my group about not being able to find much in the way of loot and worse no where to buy magic items,scrolls, arommr, etc. If your group doesnt have a cleric in it i really feel sorry for them. I was like "well you are out at open sea and stopping at islands and isolated areas. Yeah...they are not going to have the magic wal mart to run off to". But it is pretty bad after 5 sessions with no way to obtain any new equipment etc. Hope you have a wiz or cleric w/some item creation feats.Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?
-----Alignemnt only in regards to them wanting to see things are done for the right reason. There was a couple times the group were like "You know we could be off near waterdeep adventuring and it would be a lot easier/safer than out here near chult!" (we play FR) but basically i had to provide a reason for them to be out on jurrasic park isle and not leave when they had the chance or at least somewhat answer the big ? "why are we doing this for 1000 gp per mo?... We can't even spend it!" LOL motivation is a big one. As far as class the party would have been dead 10 times over if they didnt have a cleric!!! I attirubte this to the lack of opportunity to buy potions and having one to cure disease, poison, etc. The healer was MVP many times over. As far as race, never an issue at allHow much time (in real life) has it taken you to get to where you are now?
----------We started the game 9/10/06 and we are current with the most recent magazine (I believe there are 3 left) We play 1 time per week. Every week. I have kept a log of the adventure up to now, and going back and reading it is pretty funny. As a dm i always post pics in the log we keep on line of the NPC they meet like the guy from Sasserine was the dwarf shop keep character from the movie U-turn billy bob thorton as a greese monkey, he ran the shop "it still floats" I remember that from even back then cause it was so funny. : ) And Nick Nolte was this guy Pinkus that will harass your party there also, lol... you have some good times to look forward tooWhat do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?
-----I think its right on par. In fact, i was calculating xps several times and found i was not giving them enough.I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)
----------I would say both. Although to me (id played every version of D/D and it was kind of a throw back to the old school hard knocks style take what you have and make do with it Vs a montey hall magic shop around every corner type scenarioMy players all have a back-up character (or four in one paranoid players case) and I have informed them it’s going to be a toughy. Good idea?
-----I think we have had 3 party deaths and numerous "near death" scenario. I hope someone is playing a cleric in your party! Did i mention that?How do you feel mixed alignment parties will fare in the ST?
-I think it will make for high moral dillemas. My groups were all good save one guy who was neutral and they still had "debates"... good luckDo you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?
--------We sure do! As a dm in some encouters they were very helpful. The facing, ambushes, direction, etc. Very helpful esp when terrain becomes an issue and people want specefic on reach or spell ranges on targets etc. Def use them! we use them for combat only so has not much to do with "role playing" as we are more a role playing group vs roll playing group. But they are a great tool to use for combatThat’s all folks. :)
--------Hope it helps out
I advise not taking side treks. We have had 2 now and the campaign has lost its momentum. We have been playing for about 6 mos and just hit the IoD. With the sidetreks delving into PC backstory and such, the players are wondering about the "plot" To them the plot now seems to be "work for Lavina"
I failed to instill much hate toward vanthus. Don’t make this mistake:
I would go so far as to create more reasons for the PC's to hate vanthas if they don’t build the sentiment naturally.
I have opened all WOTC books to the party, and I am still handing them their asses. Let them munchkin out. They will need it.
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Lots of really good Q's.... lets go through them:
>>Where in the path are you up to now?<<
My party started in mid January, playing one night a week for about 3 hours at a time, and we are partway through the 3rd issue, Sea Wyvern's Wake. I am playing up the sea-faring aspect of this campaign more than the source material does, and I think that a 3 month sea voyage deserves a LOT more than 1 article's worth of material, so I'm slowing this part down a lot, and throwing in a lot of my own stuff.
We are using Stormwrack to great effect, and I highly recommend you pick that up. It's not essential, but it will help you a lot in adding to the nautical aspect of the game. I'd also suggest you find the thread in here for nautical terminology, and make copies of it for your players if you have the means. At the very least, I would recommend you spend some time on it learning a little of the lingo. It makes it all more authentic. This is a unique campaign, most campaigns don't deal with ships and pirates and such. Why not play that up and take advantage of that?
>>How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?<<
So far so good for us. I think it would be wise for you to be willing to retain some flexibility with the storyline though. Remember that the source material is only a skeleton. Feel free to adjust bits here and there for your party or your particular situation.
As for the rusty DM concern, I hadn't run a game for about 5 years before this one, so I was a bit rusty as well to say the least. I think this was the perfect way to get back into the groove. The AP provides a steady plotline and structure to build around. And these boards are a great resource. Have a look at "Mando"'s encounter sheets, he'll email them to you if you ask to be on his list. They are a great resource for keeping all the npcs and monsters straight.
I'd also keep a notebook and take notes as you go. As a DM, you'll invariably come to places where you have to make up names and stuff on the fly because you didn't prepare for it, and the module doesn't have anything. "What's the name of the inn in Fort Blackwell?" ummmmmmm..... right.... It's called the "Hoarse Hippocampus" Write that down.
>>Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?<<
I think they ALWAYS do. I told my players ahead of time what kind of campaign it was going to be. I told them they'd spend significant time on ships and on water. I told them that skills like "Use Rope, Prof:Sailor, and Knowledge:Geography" would be a lot more useful than normal. I told them they would do well to learn how combat works differently in water (DMG p 96 iirc, you might want to familiarize yourself with that too). I told them that the penalties for falling overboard in heavy metal armor would be severe.
So, the characters were made with that in mind, just as I hoped. Don't think of it as limitations (I can't play my heavily armored paladin on a barded warhorse?!), think of it as a chance to try something that you normally wouldn't. Ever thought it would be fun to play an aquatic elf? Here's your chance (although you will still need to have some workarounds for that, especially early on). The Stormwrack races, such as Aventi, are a really neat option for something you can't normally do. My party has 2 of them. We also have a Water Genasi (we play in the Forgotten Realms). Ever want to try out the Dread Pirate or Legendary Captain prestige class? Normally those get glossed over in the books as irrelevant because their stuff is only good on a ship. Well, now you're on a ship!
>>What do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?<<
I started my PC's at 2nd level and had an intro adventure to get them to Sasserine together on the first night. But since there were 8, the XP were divided more than usual, and they were right back on track by midway through Bullywug. I only increased the CR's a little here and there. In general, I think the adventure is PLENTY deadly as is. All I had to do is play the enemies smart, and have them show up in bigger numbers at a time (instead of seeing 3 rogues in the LD base, they found 5 or 6 at a time, and the rogues were always ready for them, and so on). They found 5 or 6 zombie pirates at a time in the Parrot Island dungeon at once, and in the climatic final battle with them, the huecuva was with 5 or them. Too bad the cleric did super well on his turn check and turned all the zombies, even that turned out to be too easy, but hey, that's the way rolls go sometimes. :)
In short, the advancement is ok. You sound like you'll have 6, so you should be fine just leaving the encounters as is in most cases, you'll still have plenty of tense moments. I'd have WAY more than my current 1 entry into the Obits thread if not for the fact that we have a Dragon Shaman with a healing aura that automatically stabilizes people when they drop below 0hp. The one we did lose was knocked by sneak attacks to -9 by zombie pirates, then stabilized. Unfortunately, before he could stand up, one of his fellow PC's killed a zombie standing over him, and he took 4 damage from the acid splash. OOPS. Trying to save the guy...
>>I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)<<
Both, no question. :)
Tell them up front that character death is a VERY real possibility, because it is. Tell them that you're not going to go out of their way to kill them, but at the same time, it's no fun if you always bail them out and pull punches either. Even the new guys should grasp that. Tell them to always have a backup PC made. Usually you'll see that the experienced guys will do what they can to help out the rookies, and also lead by example, so the new guys will be seasoned vets in no time.
>>My players all have a back-up character (or four in one paranoid players case) and I have informed them it’s going to be a toughy. Good idea?<<
4 is too much, then you get the problem where the guy almost WANTS his PC to die because he's itching to try out that neat druid he worked up last week. Plus then he spends a half hour deciding which to give you as the replacement and nobody can really move on until he does. But one is definitely a good idea.
>>How do you feel mixed alignment parties will fare in the ST?<<
Ours is fine. Mixed alignment builds for more roleplay possibilities honestly. It's always fun to watch the LG guy and he CN guy argue over whether it's OK to throw the unconscious and bleeding pirate overboard where he'd likely be eaten by the circling sharks.
Here's an excerpt of what I told all my players before the game started regarding alignment, I felt it fit in here as well:
A note on alignment: The overall theme of the campaign is fighting evil for a noble cause, but that certainly does not mean that everyone should be LG, or even G. Neutral and even Evil alignments are accepted, but be forewarned that this is not a campaign where all the players are evil, bloodthirsty pirates. Obviously, as DM I only have some control over player’s actions, and I will not “forbid” players from doing evil acts. But that’s not the expectation of the game as a whole. May your character lie, steal, cheat, and so on? Absolutely. May he/she openly kill innocent villagers or sailors and not expect repercussions? Unlikely. Also, there will be times when an opponent will be beyond your skill to kill directly; in such cases it will be necessary to confront them in other ways. Subtle warnings of such will be given if necessary in such cases.
>>Do you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?<<
We love them. My opinion is that it adds clarity to the game, especially during combat situations. There will be long stretches when you don't need them at all, but then there are other times when having the figs prevents a lot of unnecessary q's about placement. "Can I still see the ogre from here?" Just look at the mat, it should be obvious. "How many orcs can I hit with the fireball?" Q's like that become obvious with figs and a mat.
I have a big 5'x10' gaming table in my basement, and we have a Chessex Mondomat on it (available from Paizo). I love it. But I understand the arguments against the figs too, to each their own.
I also recommend getting a pack or two of those cardboard ships from that collectible game. "Pirates of the Main" I think it's called. They are great if you plan on doing much work with naval combat, just remember they're at a much different scale of course. So maybe when you're doing that, each square is 25' instead of 5', for instance.
Wow, long post...sorry. Hope you find it useful.
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I thought I'd follow up a really long post with another one... :)
This is the word doc. I gave to each of my players when the game started. I think something like this is always a very useful way to lay down basic ground rules so the guys know what to expect, especially if you have some newbs in the group.
Some of it I touched on in the previous post, but I think you still will benefit from it. If not, sorry for spamming. :)
Avast, you sea dogs, and welcome to the Savage Tide Campaign!
Before we weigh anchor and make way into uncharted seas, here be some things ye should know about the campaign. First of all, I cannot make any guarantees about bein’ able to maintain this ‘ere pirate voice throughout the entire campaign, but I will try anyway. For the rest of this note, though, I’ll stick to proper King’s English, so you don’t all throttle me next time you see me.
The Campaign will take much of its material from the “Savage Tide” series in Dungeon Magazine, so unless you want to spoil some of the story, it’s best you keep your nose out of Dungeon for a while. I will throw in a lot of my own ideas that I’ve been developing over the past few months, but Savage Tide will help a lot in setting the backdrop and keeping the story moving between my mostly unconnected ideas, so you’ve been warned.
I am converting the adventure path as written in Dungeon to the Forgotten Realms for lots of reasons, but primarily because I own a lot of Realms source material that I don’t wish to go to waste.
Character Creation:
You will begin as 2nd level characters aboard the “Ravaged Pride”, a small merchant vessel that runs between the cities of Sasserine, and the city-state of Sammarash. Sasserine replaces Tashluta in official Forgotten Realms supplements as the capital of Tashalar. Both lie on the Shining Sea, in the southern areas of Faerun.
The route between the two cities runs along the coast, as such the “Ravaged Pride” is never out of sight of land, making it a safe route for such a small vessel.
As such, you may create a character from anywhere in the Forgotten Realms, but given the nature of the campaign, it would make sense for your character to hail from a region with a seafaring culture, or at the very least, some coastal areas where ships are known to pass. If you are from a faraway land in the Realms, such as Mulhorand or the Moonsea area, you will want to include in your character creation some reason why you’d be in the South. Naturally, the life of a sailor is one of travel, so such a story should not be terribly difficult. I accept and appreciate written character concepts and backstories detailing the life of your character up to level 2, but it is not required.
If, on the other hand, you would like to be from Sasserine itself, that would be fine, and in fact very easy to write into the story. I will be providing each such player with a “Savage Tide Player’s Guide” outlining the city and its many districts. A player who hails from this city will automatically know all (or at least the vast majority – if you have to roll I will let you know) of the information within it as “Area Knowledge – Sasserine”, while the rest of you will need to take that as a skill if you want to succeed on such a check. Area Knowledge – Sasserine will also allow a synergy bonus to Gather Information checks made within the city as well.
As mentioned, characters will begin play at 2nd level. Allowable source material for character creation, in terms of feats, spells known, races, and so on include all Forgotten Realms sources, as well as all core D&D material produced by WotC, with the exception of psionics, please; it doesn’t mesh with my notion of magic. A special warning when going through Realms stuff: a lot of it, notably the basic campaign setting book, was written under 3.0 rules, and lots of the feats/spells/prestige classes were re-written for 3.5 in later supplements. Make sure you’re using the 3.5-based stuff, if you have questions ask. I might also specifically point you in the direction of the “Stormwrack” supplement, specifically created for seafaring adventures. It has some races that may interest people looking to play something which ordinarily would not be a very useful race.
Having said that, I would recommend AGAINST creating a truly aquatic character, in other words one which can not function well outside of water, at least at first. We will be spending significant time in this campaign at sea, but we will also be spending significant time, in stretches of months at a time, on land as well, although always coastal I think (no promises there though). In those cases, obviously, an all-aquatic creature will have difficulty being involved in these adventures. If you are dead-set on playing an all-aquatic creature, discuss it with me, and we’ll work out something. You’ll probably need to create two characters, one for land time and one for sea-time. However, I will need to penalize this extra flexibility in some way, so expect to have your two characters each be a level behind the rest of the party, or some similar negative assignment on my part. I’m not trying to punish you, but again as I said, it wouldn’t be fair to the players who are putting all their effort into one character to let others have two equally powerful characters, giving them the advantage of “customizing” themselves to the environment. Again, if you have issues with this, discuss it with me and I’m sure we’ll work something out.
Back on topic. Character creation will involve rolling your stats as follows: roll 4D6, reroll 1’s, take 3 best. Repeat 7 times, take 6 best and distribute as you wish. Yes, this will make powerful characters, with an average stat above 13. Trust me, you will need it. This adventure path is not for the feint of heart, and I will not pull punches on player deaths. It cheapens the story to do so, in my opinion, because then the victories mean less.
A note on alignment: The overall theme of the campaign is fighting evil for a noble cause, but that certainly does not mean that everyone should be LG, or even G. Neutral and even Evil alignments are accepted, but be forewarned that this is not a campaign where all the players are evil, bloodthirsty pirates. Obviously, as DM I only have some control over player’s actions, and I will not “forbid” players from doing evil acts. But that’s not the expectation of the game as a whole. May your character lie, steal, cheat, and so on? Absolutely. May he/she openly kill innocent villagers or sailors and not expect repercussions? Unlikely. Also, there will be times when an opponent will be beyond your skill to kill directly; in such cases it will be necessary to confront them in other ways. Subtle warnings of such will be given if necessary in such cases.
A few other minor points on character creation: There are some unique challenges and opportunities to be had with a Seafaring game. That’s honestly one of my primary motivations for choosing this as the setting. It’s always great to be able to really branch out and look at some of the “standard” gaming preconceptions, and have to start from scratch with them. But at the same time, there are some specific challenges I want to warn you about before you make your characters, as well. For one thing, some prestige classes have specific pre-requisites that are impossible to fulfill when your character is at sea for three months. You aren’t going to be initiated into any guilds or clubs or secret orders during that time (most likely). As such, if you are the type that plans your character’s level progression out from the beginning, this is important to keep in mind. Likewise, new equipment is tough to come by at sea as well. It doesn’t matter how many gp you have, if nobody on your boat has a +3 flaming long sword they want to sell you, you aren’t going to be able to buy one. Now, item creation feats and such are an answer, and honestly, I expect that they will be a bit more useful in this campaign for that very reason. Just don’t forget to stow those raw materials on board before you set sail… I’ll let your own minds think of other general guidelines to consider when making your characters, just remember that heavy armor is no longer a good thing when your 3rd level fighter goes overboard. I don’t care if he DOES have 5 ranks in swim. And feather fall slowly takes you straight down, whether your “ground” is a moving target or not…
There are also some special rules for fighting on ships, and underwater combat, and so on. I will produce a separate handout for those. For the purposes of character creation, just know that there are lots of reasons to take Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble. And no character should think they can safely tube their Dex stat.
Game Information:
Game nights will be on Tuesdays from 6:15 pm until 9:30-10:00pm, depending on specific circumstances on that given evening. I work until 5:00 pm, and do not arrive home until 5:20 or so, so please do not arrive before 5:30, as I need time to change clothes. Anytime after 5:30 is fine, in fact I would prefer if people show up a little early if possible, so as to get settled in so we can start at 6:15. Players are encouraged to bring their own food, and there will be experience bonuses for bringing food and/or drinks to share. If people have time constraints for which they must leave early or arrive late, that is fine. Please try to call or email if you are unable to come. My phone number is , and email is . I will likewise call or email everyone on the (rare) occasions that we are not playing.
The official “quorum” for the game will be 4 players. If quorum is not reached by 6:30, those who do show up will find alternate entertainment for the evening. There may also be evenings where some other circumstance prevents me from running the game, but I am still here and available, and again in those cases we will find alternate entertainment. That might be board games, cards, or whatever. Under no circumstances are people required to stick around if they do not wish to participate on such nights, and a small XP bonus will be awarded to people who make the trip out here and do not get to play D&D.
We will play on a (really freakin’ huge!) mat with miniatures, including a really neat 4-layer miniature ship I purchased recently. Players are not required to provide their own miniatures for their characters, although of course that is encouraged. I have plenty of figs for general use, and all are welcome to them for the purposes of representing themselves.
The only other thing I ask of the players is that they understand my limitations. I will not make the “correct” in-game rules judgment every time. I don’t know every feat and every spell, and there may be times when I screw something up, or make a call that does not make sense in game. What I ask is that you hold all disagreements until the end of the session, even if it caused your player’s death. If it caused the party some serious problem, like a player death, then I will fix it. I just don’t want the game session breaking down into a rules argument. If I screw up, please wait until the end to point it out to me, and I will make it right if it was a problem.
Game Mechanics:
There are some “physics” things I need to set out before play starts. In my fantasy world, there is no distinction between fresh water creatures, and sea water creatures. I’m not saying I will, but if I want a dragon turtle in a large fresh water lake, then that’s where he is. We will worry about water pressure, if your characters dive to extreme depths, but we will NOT worry about “the bends” or decompression. You can’t just swim down to the bottom of a deep sea trench without some kind of protection, magical or otherwise, but if you do swim that deep and survive, I will let you swim directly to the surface with no penalties. I don’t want to have to pause the story for 2 days downtime while everyone sits in some de-compression chamber I have to create or something.
More specifics, including notes on underwater combat, underwater skill modifiers, and so on, will be forthcoming.
Recommended Reading:
None is required, but I would recommend that if you are interested in the campaign, and have the funds to spare, that you look into picking up a copy of Stormwrack, particularly if you plan on playing one of the races, or taking one or more of the feats or spells out of it. I have a copy, but it may be getting passed around quite a bit, and of course DM always has dibs on his books.  Additionally, I came across a REALLY great supplement from Legends and Lairs called the Seafarer’s Handbook. It’s available here: http://store.fantasyflightgames.com/ and elsewhere. It has a lot of mechanics for how skills work differently underwater, and ship-ship combat, and tons of other fun. Obviously, again, I will share mine for public use, but having more at the table is never a bad thing. Beyond that, I am working on a list of nautical terms, and while I don’t expect anyone to memorize them, I do hope all us landlubbers can at least learn port from starboard. (Port is left). My NPC’s will also occasionally use them, hopefully more and more as the game goes on, but I will print the lists so you can all look it up if necessary.
In short, having a sea-based campaign presents a lot of challenges. It’s a chance to try something different, which, again, is the whole point. Try a different race, class, spell, or prestige class than you ordinarily would. If you’re thinking of playing a Halfling, consider the “Shoal Halfling” from Stormwrack, which exchanges some of the halfling’s racial sneakiness and +1 with slings and thrown weapons for having both gills and lungs. If you want to play a Cleric, perhaps a cleric of a Sea God with an Ocean domain? Everyone will appreciate a cleric who can call wind on a calm day on the open sea. Also, remember that fire spells do not work underwater…
So what I wanted to ask was:
Where in the path are you up to now?
My party is currently under parrot island.
How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?
Read tactics for the "Blue Nixie" and "Peril Under Parrot Island" Both can be TPKs for a ruthless DM if you do not follow the authors advice in running these encounters.
Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?
On character is a monk and has taken the scarlet brotherhood affiliation. This has made for some interesting character and campaign development. One character is a psychic warrior so I have done some work involving psionics in the game and overall campaign. Have you heard of the "Seer of Cudgel". Well, that happens to be a PC's grandfather, in service to the taskerhill household in cudgle district.
How much time (in real life) has it taken you to get to where you are now?
3 weeks and a total of about 6 hours of game play and character generating with 6 players.
What do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?
AAdvancment is fair. I got in a little trouble handing out bonus xp for back ground story. Some of the players are farther ahead than I wish at this time. I have 3 2nd level players 1000 xp from 3 level. 2 who are first level 200xp from next level. I would like them all to be 2nd level by the time they start the Lotus and the Dragon. So it looks like I will reword a bit after they finish under Parrot Island, so the first level characters gain 2nd.
I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)
I think you have a good mix. This Ap is a lot more role playing oriented than the previous APs.
My players all have a back-up character (or four in one paranoid players case) and I have informed them it’s going to be a toughy. Good idea?
always a good idea
Should do fine as long as they are a team. The latter adventures, especially in Scuttlecove could be a challenge for an immature player playing a Paladin.
How do you feel mixed alignment parties will fare in the ST?
Do you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?
I use them because they add to the game play, more than to the role playing. miniatures are always fun.
That’s all folks. :)
Thank you for the feedback!
It’s been ages since our group has gotten around to a decent stint at the gaming table and to be to honest I’m feeling a little stage fright at the thought of starting such an epic campaign. In the last few months I’ve mainly been gathering notes and converting the Savage Tide into something I think suits our tastes; the players have been coming up with characters to use or jotting down backstories.
I ran a couple of short ‘hack and slash’ games lately, the intention being to refresh everyone’s memory and explain the combat/skill rules to the new players who will be joining us. Our (now sadly neglected) regular campaign is one hell of a monster that’s been going since the year 2000 and is now so high level that its become completely about roleplaying –the dice are hardly picked up in that campaign at all and 90% of ‘combats’ are dealt with through words alone.
Starting Savage Tide feels like going back to school and learning everything all over again!
Sean Achterman –I hear you loud and clear about the grapple rules, they have always been a stinker for our group and the first adventure will have us rifling through the PHB for a peek all the time if we don’t get them down. I wish there were a simpler, streamlined version or rules option I could replace them with. I’m gonna make a little DDM style card for the Rhadogessa and other important monsters/NPCs. :)
lin_fusan –Concerning Sidetreks: My players take the time to write in-depth backstories (and I’m really grateful for that) but yeah, it could end up over-egging the pudding if I’m not careful. I hate leaving to many dangling plot threads too. I’m just worried they may feel snubbed if I don’t weave their personal backstory hooks into sub-plots or sidetreks later in the campaign. Hmmmm… a toughie! I have come up with a way for a couple of players backgrounds to tie into the Isle of Dread and having some sort of ‘destiny’ set up around that place. As for advancement, I might make it completely free-form or maybe level them as they reach the next adventure/chapter –not sure they would like that though. Strangely one of my players has suddenly started to talk a lot about his character becoming a druid…
Team work should be fine in our group but one of the new people is playing a loose canon type so who knows? Swim rules… urg….
ericthecleric –Hello, long time no speaky! :) Our groups 32 point buy as well –lots of gamers seem to have taken that option for this path. My group has a goliath and fire genasi (both ran by the experienced players) so we have the darkvision problem sorted. As for evil characters, I have one new player who wants to be evil (lawful evil) –I’ve said yes as in the past my players have never used ‘being evil or CN’ to be arsey at the table or cause trouble. I am a little concerned this time though because the new guy has never gamed with us before and has expressed a desire to be extremely cold and blood thirsty and *gulp* wanted to create a drow backup character… Hmmmm? Fingers crossed everything works out ok. I have a lawful good dragonborn in the party (main healer and defacto ‘leader’ of the group too) so perhaps the evil character will be kept on a leash somewhat or at least keep a low profile when ‘doing evil’.
Our party has a male fire genasi wilder, male moonelf dragonborn dragonshaman, female human fighter, male human fighter (going into a caster multiclass of some sort later), goliath fighter, female human fighter/monk.
How does the sharing DM duties thing work at you’re table -sharing the load sounds useful and would possibly speed things up for us, does the other guy still play?
AKBrowncoat –We’re playing in FR, how open and friendly have you made Sasserine to the worlds many different races? No cleric in our party, sounds like my players may have to get used to starting new characters! We do have the dragonshaman mind you –he has the fast healing aura.
Czar –Right, another one for dumping the sidetreks!
I will have to make sure my players backstory hooks and personal goals tie extremely closely into the paths story if I’m gonna do the players efforts justice and keep the campaign on track/not get bogged down… Vanthus –ramp up the hate towards him. Hmmmm… He certainly is a fiend right? Perhaps I should make him do something really horrific in order to get them hating him the right amount? Everyone is our group is over 18 so I could build up a spark of romance with one or more players then have a scene where one of the PC characters walk in as Lavinia is changing etc revealing bruises all over her which she refuses to talk about etc? I think I will play Lavinia as a ‘girl next door’ naïve type who has an inner strength of character that will make her grow into a wise old bird –I see her as a lot like Laurana from the Dragonlance chronicles.
Fiendish Dire Weasel –Stormwrack has been one of the main books on my beside (where I do most my prep for the game, lol) The sea voyage is something I want to explore more and I have a few encounters already written out to expand things –one of which is just an excuse to introduce a hadozee NPC/PC! ;)
Although very rusty with the rules and such I am quite used to ‘winging it’ -our highlevel campaign has players often deciding to planeshift somewhere out of the blue so I’m used to that! I always keep a notebook behind the screen. ;)
Nice intro/handout! It’s very good. I kind of did something similar, thanks for posting it. :)
Sir Kaikillah – Eeek! I’m awarding the players pre-game xp for their backstories, art and miniatures. I think at the first session most of them will be about to level up after one encounter! Two people are playing la+1 races (genasi and goliath). Hope this doesn’t mess things up too much and hobble the encounters difficulty settings into total walkovers for them…
Wow, I didn’t realise so many people were supportive of miniatures! I feel better about choosing to include them more in our games now, we’ve always used them in the past but never as much as this adventure path seems to need them for its maps/combats etc.
Any of you used the legacy weapon rules in this path? A couple of my players have written cool weapons into their backstories that hint at having some sort of importance or destiny and I may want to do more with that but most people I’ve spoken to about WoL try to steer me away from using those rules and/or say their clunky and disappointing.
Where in the path are you up to now?
The party just started "The Lightless Depths", which I'm really excited about. I plan on playingup the creepy underground feel and have played around with the idea of a party field trip to some caves nearby so that they can kind of get a feel for underground-ness. Personally, I hate being underground but I would like for this section of the adventure to be memorable. I mean, how often do you stumble upon an abandoned aboleth city overrun with Far Realmsy monsters?
How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?
Like others have said, read up on grappling and swimming/water combate rules. Stormwrack has been nigh indespensible. I'm a fairly new DM, this being the first long term campaign I've ever ran, so a couple things I would do differently is to focus more on roleplaying. The party only thinks that Vanthus is annoying and not completely evil, so I would play that up more. Also, due to some party friction, the first two mods weren't very much fun (my fault, not the writers!) becuase the party was too powerful. I'm known for pulling punches a lot but despite this, I've dropped on PC and an animal companion.
Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?
I think the game is built for 'heroes' and have found that things go a lot smoother if the party is mostly good aligned. This campaign seems to play on that more than others. In the begginning, the party was neutral, some with good tendencies and one with more evil. Now they're all good (conversion experiance happened with the couatl, dying, and finding the holy greatsword. Go fig.) and the evilish guy is gone.
Druids, scouts, rangers are all good class choices. Aquatic races are GREAT choices. Its seems like your players have all that figured out, so I won't waste any more time on it. :D
How much time (in real life) has it taken you to get to where you are now?
I think we started in January, maybe a little earlier. I have a fast DMing style, probably stemming from the amount of coffee I drink, and the first two modules were just cakewalks for the party. There were 6 PCs at 2nd level who just walked all over the thieves, zombies, and bullywugs. They had a little trouble with the savage creatures due to the lack of a magic weapon, and were attacked by a savage parrot that almost took someone out. But they found the secret tunnelly wter ways, avoiding the velociraptor and phanaton and then they made some awesome diplomacy rolls and won Harliss over, and she showed them the safest way out.
I see us finishing about October or November.
What do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?
I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)
My players flew up the levels. It should be slowing down now, but I was amazed at how fast they leveled up. They're also a level behind becuase I slowed the whole party's advancement becuase of the uber gnome rogue (he nearly took out the bullwug chief in one hit. at third level. no thanks!) combined with the clever ways others played really bumped up their CR. Its worked out okay, though I have taken out a few PCs and almost had a TPK a few weeks ago.
We have two very experianced players (druid and wizard/bard), two slightly less experianced who haven't played very long (fighter/hexblade and ranger/rogue/dread pirate) and one newbie who hated D&D prior to this (cleric). It's worked out well.
Do you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?
We love love love minis. Often, if we just want to hang out, we'll have a painting party. I've played without them and it really messes with my head not too. The visual helps, both as a player and DM, a lot. I think they can add to the roleplaying.
Hope that helps!
Where in the path are you up to now?
Towards the end of TINH. First thing next session, my PCs will be breaking into the Taxidermist's Guild in the middle of the night.
How’s it all been going (story/combats) etc any pitfalls to avoid? Anything you’d change or urge a rusty DM (such as myself) to watch out for?
Know your grapple rules. Rhagodessas are character death on a stick. Be a bit flexible when it comes to Gather Info checks when the PCs are searching for Vanthus - the continued plot requires they find him, but things can come to a grinding halt if none of the PCs have any particular social skills.
Have the alignment/class and race choices made by the players during character generation affected the campaign a lot IYO?
A cleric with decent turning ability can really make Parrot Island a walk in the park. Two PCs with healing capability are very nice to have - my group has a cleric and dragon shaman, and it's saved the group's bacon more than once.
How much time (in real life) has it taken you to get to where you are now?
One session character generation, one on the Blue Nixie, one at the vaults and doing social stuff, one looking for Vanthus, one under Parrot Island, and one spending loot and investigating the Lotus Dragons. Sessions run from 3-4 hours generally. It really depends how much time you put into roleplaying Gather Info checks, shopping for gear, etc. I'm taking a bit of a middle path on that - introducing a few interesting NPCs who can make repeated appearances as time passes. Sasserine's a pretty cool place, and game time spent fleshing it out and making it more genuine-feeling is generally a good investment.
What do you think of the advancement rate of the player characters?
It's pretty fast so far, but it's needed to be. 1st-level characters are extremely vulnerable to going down after one hit, and with all the minor healing etc going on, low-level combat can begin to resemble a game of whack-a-mole. The sooner PCs get off 1st level the better IMHO.
I have picked up three new players and have three old experienced gamers –what’s your view on new/inexperienced players and Savage Tide? (Death trap/tons of fun/both?)
Not too bad so far, but knowing about slightly more advanced combat options like Aid Another, grappling, and the like can be very handy under Parrot Island. Further along it looks like protection spells and divinations will be absolutely mandatory, so if your inexperienced players are playing casters then you might need to be a bit careful.
My players all have a back-up character (or four in one paranoid players case) and I have informed them it’s going to be a toughy. Good idea?
I've told them it'll be tough (no fatalities yet, though the samurai has been down to -9hp three times under Parrot Island and once more on the Blue Nixie), but I haven't encouraged building of back-up characters. Mostly because it takes me a while to introduce new PCs to the group anyway, and because exactly which back-up PC gets activated depends on which character(s) died and what that means for party balance.
How do you feel mixed alignment parties will fare in the ST?
Probably not too badly. The dilemmas so far seem to be decisions of loyalty rather than morality. Paladins and other LG characters might have a problem with all the temporary alliances with evil that go on further down the track though.
Do you use miniatures in the path? What is you're opinion of them? Do they add or take away from the game/roleplaying?
We use them. They're handy in combat so people can see what's happening rather than rely on the GM describing it all - it speeds things up and reduces the scope for misunderstandings.