So the group thinks they have figured out that many things in here are trapped (rightly so), and are extremely cautious. They have decided to cast True Seeing and peer into the room with the rising path.
Certainly they will see the third pillar isn't what it seems to be, but what of the illusory wall above. Is that somehow obscured or would it be visible? The room description says that swirling patterns of wind and lightning dance and howl along the walls and ceiling (these I am assuming are not illusional), but do they obscure?
My thinking is I'll let them see it, no sense in hiding it, they have blown a 5th level spell they should be rewarded for it's use. I am betting they will try to fly there, which the two in the fog below will likely take exception to.
Man, it feels like forever since my players had to negotiate this encounter. I don't recall my PCs having access to 5th level spells, however.
This was one of the many encounters that is significantly hurt by PCs ability to fly. There are numerous encounters like this throughout the AoWAP that are simply nerfed by flight. And by level 10, it seemed like everyone was flying.
After completing the AoWAP and my admission that I was done running DnD forever (well, until 4.0), I mentioned that this was one of the main stumbling blocks I have with the game in general. The ability to fly, teleport, and plane shift removes many of the story devices a DM might use (although some would argue that these abilities more quickly furthers a story by transitioning to the new scene faster). But I digress and am now ranting....
back to this ecounter in particular, I found that the writer (I dont remember who wrote this, Wolfgang Baur I think) of this module (return to whispering cairn?) identified the PCs likely ability to fly would nerf the jump checks and challenges and included these air elementals in the room to attack only flying creatures. That sounded like heavy-handed tactics which I didnt like too much.
In general I don't think you can ever force PCs to give up flying by putting in dangerous flying opponents. They're just going to think, hey, look at that dangerous flying creature, I'd better be flying when I fight it! And in both this case and the very similar one in HoHR they are quite right--much better to fly, and fight the elementals, than to risk a nasty fall into a bad place. If anyone falls they will have to fight the elementals anyway, but at a disadvantage.
I think traps like this stop working at mid-levels, which is sad, but trying to contrive situations to make them work has never been very successful for us.
Probably the minimum change to make Fly less overwhelmingly prevalent would be to remove or reprice the wand; but of course, rewriting one rule is like eating one peanut. Alternatively, this would have been a cool setup in Whispering Cairn, when the PCs probably did *not* have Fly handy for the whole party--though DCs would have needed to be lower.
My biggest problem with this room was the lightning: it's a bit underdefined. Does it fire a bolt at every PC, or only one bolt per round? Can it be dispelled, and if so at what CL? How close to the walls do you have to get in order to set it off? What spell level is it: does Minor Globe stop it? And so forth.
Mary
Not sure it was designed to be a one-solution-only room. Maybe Wolfgang's idea was that players could avoid combat with the elementals by jumping instead of flying. Feather fall can negate the worst consequences of falling, and presumably the party has kept the ring they found in the first module. So, if players want to burn 4 fly spells and have a nice dust up with the air elementals, they can take that route, otherwise, it's time to break out those potions of jump and have some sort of safety line for those who might fall anyway.
Man, it feels like forever since my players had to negotiate this encounter. I don't recall my PCs having access to 5th level spells, however.
The adventure is rated from 11-13 level wise, so it's going to be a big resource drain to cast it, but the party has two clerics both level 9+
This was one of the many encounters that is significantly hurt by PCs ability to fly. There are numerous encounters like this throughout the AoWAP that are simply nerfed by flight. And by level 10, it seemed like everyone was flying.
I hear that. I have begun to hand out potions of flying to BBEGs to compensate for this.
(rant snipped)
back to this ecounter in particular, I found that the writer (I dont remember who wrote this, Wolfgang Baur I think) of this module (return to whispering cairn?) identified the PCs likely ability to fly would nerf the jump checks and challenges and included these air elementals in the room to attack only flying creatures. That sounded like heavy-handed tactics which I didnt like too much.
I recall that the elementals would attack the non-flyers and drop them into the pit. Also, remember getting too close to the walls and ceiling is going to zap them. I figure that the seal is the only safe way to get in, it will disarm the electrical portion of the trap. What the trap should be is a dispelling trap, so that their fly goes bye bye if they try and fly in.
I decided to let the players know that they could see that the pillar was an illusion, but those who don't have true seeing (most of the party) are still going to have to deal with the illusion, perhaps with a +2 DM fiat for being told it's not really there.
I also told them there was a circular opening above the large pillar, but that lightning and wind coursed across it as if it wasn't there.
Does anyone else thing a dispelling trap is overly heavy handed?
Not sure it was designed to be a one-solution-only room. Maybe Wolfgang's idea was that players could avoid combat with the elementals by jumping instead of flying. Feather fall can negate the worst consequences of falling, and presumably the party has kept the ring they found in the first module. So, if players want to burn 4 fly spells and have a nice dust up with the air elementals, they can take that route, otherwise, it's time to break out those potions of jump and have some sort of safety line for those who might fall anyway.
I agree, I would allow the party to risk it by not flying, but if even one player flew in the elementals would attack (per my last post they would go for the non-flyers first).
For the lightning, it says on page 60 I think: Any non-elemental approaching within 5 feet of the north or south walls, or the ceiling is struck by a blast of hurricane force wind and a bolt of lightning. The lightning deals 10d6 electrical damage, or half on a DC20 reflect. The blast of wind has different effects depending on the target's size and whether he's flying or not (medium flyers must make a DC20 fort save or be blown back 2d6x10 and take 2d6 points of non-leathal damage) So it's pretty dang nasty.
For the lightning, it says on page 60 I think: Any non-elemental approaching within 5 feet of the north or south walls, or the ceiling is struck by a blast of hurricane force wind and a bolt of lightning. The lightning deals 10d6 electrical damage, or half on a DC20 reflect. The blast of wind has different effects depending on the target's size and whether he's flying or not (medium flyers must make a DC20 fort save or be blown back 2d6x10 and take 2d6 points of non-leathal damage) So it's pretty dang nasty.
To my vast surprise, my player realized that it was dangerous to approach the walls, but had the entire party fly at top speed through the ceiling hole anyway, each one taking a lightning blast. It worked out fine for the PCs but I was biting my tongue the whole time--it seemed rash to me.
One PC was blown back, but with Improved Inivisibility she had no great trouble with the air elementals. The others just went through.
They have very high saves for their level, though: he's pretty much optimized on saves, and it is very rare for a PC to fail one. The characters with Evasion weren't even hurt.
Mary
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My Players will soon reach this point - they are currently about to go to the ***Plane of Shadow to find Allustan (who was snitched by the Shadow Spider) before returning.
This room just screamed awkwardness to me. To my mind, it does not make sense for a Wind Duke to force invaders to jump their way to Icosiol's final resting place. I know my players and they would swiftly ridicule this.
My plans are just to get rid of the whole pillars thing and replace it with a "room" of two portals 200 ft. apart with a raging endless Storm in between and all around - replete with Air Elementals and other nastiness. You want to get to Icosiol's tomb, you're going to have to fight your way there using up some heavy duty resources. This should be the real test, not whether your invaders have mastered the fine art of jumping - designed by creatures that have perfect flight.
Anyway, one portal leads to where the rest of the tomb that the PCs have gone through while the other leads to Icosiol's final resting place. The pair of Oculus demons enslaved there should be a nasty final surprise.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
***Unfortunately, Allustan was stolen out of the shadow spider's "larder" by slavers who have taken him to the City of Onyx (Tome of Magic).