Ok, boys and girls…here’s one from the halls of yore. I’m partly curious if 3x uses this concept or if it’s been phased completely out. Either way, though, I’m looking to get your opinions on whether I should use it or not. Since I’m just starting a brand new homebrew and haven’t had to invoke it yet, I can kill it before it becomes an issue.
According to old 2e rules, the adventures are supposed to be high profile They live a certain lifestyle that requires they flaunt themselves. Kind of like a “High Rollers” or even “Whales” in Las Vegas, they are supposed to make their wealth and success obvious.
To simulate this, the characters are required to cough up a “maintenance” expense equal to 100GP per level every month. Thus, a 5th level character (regardless of race or class) must spend 500GP every month for lifestyle “maintenance”. This provides for good rooms, good meals, horse stabling and care, basic (non-magical) equipment repair/replacement, guild dues, etc. Anything else the character spends is considered extra so bribes, tips, tithes, alms and the like are all paid for differently.
In a way this provides the characters excellent incentive to go out and do their thing; to do what it takes to get enough money to support their hedonistic ways. Characters failing to provide this monthly fee are generally considered failures as “adventurers” and players are recommended to “retire” that character out of play. This is not required, by the way, just recommended. I don’t really plan on enforcing that part. What I do like, though, is that pressure incentive to go and do.
Since I’m not running any real plots, just letting character history provide me with grist for the mill, this early pressure to take the odd jobs or do the strange work necessary to get the cash, I’m sure they’ll get involved with things that will churn things up really well. But….do you guys think this is a “good” thing. Have you ever used it or anything like it…would you consider using it if it were part of your game rules (RAW or house), and can you see any obvious flaws that I might be missing?
Take your best shots, please…no mercy…’cause I really wanna know if this is something I want to entangle myself in. I’ve never used it before, always preferring to “edit it out” for streamlining purposes, but since I’m bending back to a much older style for this setting, I’m willing to go with it if I can. Whadda ya think?
I think this rule about upkeep owes its existence to the old 1gp = 1xp equation. If you need thousands of gp to reach a decent level, what do you do with all that money? In the older editions, buying and selling of magic items was not part of the game, and standard equipment? All you could ever need was covered with, say, 5000 gp or so. So, some way was needed to part the PC and his money, thus this upkeep rule was invented. (I guess)
And, honestly, if an adventuring party spent 500 gp per head and month, they will pretty much own a village within half a year or so. To me, it seems as a rather heavy-handed approach to steal the treasure from the PCs.
I would recommend not giving out so much gp treasure, so you don´t have to siphon it away again.
Upkeep is surely something to be considered, and IIRC, the LIving Greyhawk Campaign has some rules (mainly costs) on it. But to make it dependant on the level does not make sense to me - especially if you consider a paladin or a monk. A Paladin isn´t even allowed to keep more money than absolutely necessary, and according to 1e PH, a good meal costs 1 gp. So even a truly high-end lifestyle would cost perhaps 100 gp per month or so, regardless of level. I see the idea behind that - if a hero suddenly plays Scrooge, that´s not very heroic and will lead to more than a few raised eyebrows, but to enforce it the way you wrote seems wrong to me.
Stefan
Oh, and: I seem to remember some article in dragon about parting PCs and their money - try searching the dragondex for treasure or money.
Stefan
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I am not a big fan of MAKING the PCs spend the money. My group hordes money like crazy. They bought an apartment in town for all four of them to live out of. They could easily have bought an apartment for each one. They keep their loot in a bag of holding. Now if anything ever happens to that bag, and someday some little gutter punk will try to steal it, they will see how vulnerable they are.
Until then, they live small and keep a low profile. Which is geat because to me, that makes them just that much more heroic. They are only lvel five now, and as they increase, their simple living will make them very popular with the masses.
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I've played Shadowrun in the past, and they allowed a PC to choose a 'lifestyle option'.
You didn't have to select one of those options. You could pay everything on an ongoing basis. The whole point of 'lifestyle' is to keep the PCs from subtracting every copper every time they go to the tavern.
If you're interested in allowing a 'lifestyle' expense, you can let the PCs choose an amount. Based upon the amount they choose, they always have 'new' mundane equipment, nice accomodations, plenty to eat and drink, etc. Those that choose a low amount are still using that frayed rope from 1st level, etc.
This is mostly for flavor purposes. But I've frequently seen PCs spend a PP in a tavern to buy as many drinks as everybody in the place wants to avoid 'ruining' their character sheet by constantly rubbing out GP totals, etc.
So, a 500gp per month expense seems enough to keep them in a really nice lifestyle. The finest accomodations to whichever town they go, etc. Fine meals, doting servants, etc. If they choose a lifestyle of 10 gp per month, they get to stay in the finest stables when they go to town, buy their food from the market and prepare it themselves (for instance).
Don't be afraid to talk to your players about what they'd prefer and how they'd like to deal with the 'minor' expenses they incur.
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I like the Shadowrun method, but MAKING them do it. It does make things easier so you don't copper and silver them to death.
Based upon PHB for 30 days lodging at an Inn and meals
Good 61.5G
Common 2.4G
Poor 0.9G
500 seems a bit high unless you go with 30 days lodging and meals and add
Banquet every night 300G
FIne Wine every night 300G
Stabling 1.5G
then you get 663G for a really extravagent lifestyle.
I'd say for 1,000G they would stay in the finest rooms a metropolis has to offer and dine in the finest inns available anywhere. They woud live like superstars.
Well, the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide has two variant rules that may fit with the "maintenence" you speak of. The first is on pg. 130, amounting to "upkeep". The levels that I think you'd be shooting for are at 100 gp/month for what I think would be a standard adventurer's lifestyle, and 200 gp/month for an extravagant lifestyle. The second variant regards costs in gold and time for training in new levels, though I'll leave you to go to your own copy or your FLGS and look it up on pg. 197.
This thread was mis-posted and has been moved here. It is the same subject matter is "Expensive Habits" reposted a short time later in this area. I would prefer we keep them together, so please cease posting in this thread and post in the other.
THank you.