My group is starting the Savage Tide tomorrow (no spoilers please!) and I'll be playing a wizard who specializes in battlefield control using such spells as webs, walls, and stat-sapping necromancy spells. I've also decided to use little if any direct damage spells. Has anyone tried this? How well did it work? Any tips?
While I haven't tried this I beleive that it could be quite effective. Illusions, spells that sap the stats of multiple targets, walls and spells like Web and Grease would make such a wizard a force to be reckoned with.
I've done this sort of thing before because I get bored with direct damage spells and like find imaginative uses for under-utilized spells. I think what you have planned will work quite well.
A utility wizard who has a spell for every occasion is very useful and lots of fun to play.
To be honest, I have a lot of trouble comprehending the idea of a blaster wizard or even having one in my game. Sure, she does a lot of damage, but she's still got a d4 for hit points(unless she's multiclassing) and she's usually the first one to fall because she sticks out like a sore thumb. She's got to have a lot of spells readied for when things go wrong, too.
Not only is it feasible, it's perhaps more potent than a blaster. A blaster begins competing with the fighter-type for damage, and for a long while, it's actually neck in neck. Now, having more damage output is hardly ever a bad thing, but it's kind of a redundancy, and many creatures quickly begin accumulating various defenses against these sorts of things.
Now, battlefield control spells due a completely different job. They cripple foes, thus preventing harm to party members, and set up said party members to easily dispatch them. A blaster can't stop some brawler from turning around and bashing the party rogue, but a battlefield control specialist can! They can turn what would be a deadly encouter with a blaster, who has no mitigation power, into a breeze.
Also, as you pointed out, they're fun because you get to be creative and think of interesting applictions for spells. Blasters are quite repetitive. And, many a foe can just shrug off a fireball, but will be quite hindered by haste or Evard's black tentacles. To tell the truth, if you want your character to feel powerful, a battlefield controller is a good way to do that, because you don't just chip away blocks of hit points, you completely thwart your foes abilities, rendering them impotent as you laugh in their face! Or, something like that...
A word about illusions, too. They're great. Awesometastic, in the words of a friend. See, most illusions only allow a save if they're interacted with. But, in the middle of combat, that means the enemy has to take a swing at them. Therefore, he's already spending time and actions addressing a threat that isn't really there. Provided he takes the bait, an illusion accomplishes its job before it even allows a save. If the guy fails the save and keeps going after the illusion, well, that's even better. It's win-win for you!
If you're into creativity, illusions are the spells for you, also. No other group of spells, as a whole, allows for as much flexibility and definition by the player as illusions. Their utility is limited only by your imagination.
For this reason... might I suggest playing a gnome?
I haven't tried this, but the first thing that poped into my mind was a drow wizard from War of the Spider Queen named Pharaun Mizzrym. He used alot of wall spells, bigby's spells, web, viscid glob, evard's black tentacles, alot and I mean alot of illusion spells, and a few save or dies ie. phantasmal killer, weird, wail of the banshee. I would go for illusion for battle filled control, but don't be hesitant to drop a fireball or cone of cold. Oh and I would go with a human or gnome well I'd suggest gnome. I'd never play one.
Fizz
After a point we've found non-blaster wizards to be more powerful than the blasters, because they are less hampered by SR, save-to-no-effect, resistances, etc. Many more things can shrug off a fireball than can shrug off Evard's or glitterdust or web. For our current campaign (SCAP) I'd say the crossover point was around 12th level. By that point, a dedicated blaster is hardly getting any use out of his low-level spells--they tend not to work--but grease, web, glitterdust, invisibility and flight are still winners. And don't forget dispel magic, perhaps the best third-level spell around! (The NPCs in our game know it, too, and dropped a significant chunk of the PC party into a sulfurous lake by dispelling their flight....)
You don't want to stock up on just illusions because the perfect defense is too low level (true seeing) but a mix of spells can work great.
Mary
I'd still tend to have an Orb spell as a backup at least later in the campaign. The one weak point for a battlefield control type wizard is the guy who has true seeing, freedom of movement and a high Will save. This guy is close to immune to anything the wizard can throw at him and he is not that uncommon at the higher levels.
Actually, a non blaster wizard is actually the most powerful type of wizrd you can play. There are very few blasting spells that are "save-or-die," hence you need to use more spells to finish the enemies off.
What is a better use of resources?
1. Use One spell, say Evards Black tentacles, to seperate and imobilise all (or at least most) of your enemies, making them easy pickings for the melee and ranged combatants among your party?
2. Use 3 or 4 direct damage spells buring through the massive hitpoints of your enemies.
Option 1 also has the advantage of allowing the entire party to contribute, and feel they played an important part in the encounter. You melee specialists get to dish out but loads of damage, your rogue players get to sneak attak till their heart's content, and your divine caster gets to actually wade into melee and not have to spend their time keeping the fighter up. All while you get to know you were really the one that turned the tide of battle, with ONE spell, and then you can sit back and prestidigitate your hair blue.
I'd still tend to have an Orb spell as a backup at least later in the campaign. The one weak point for a battlefield control type wizard is the guy who has true seeing, freedom of movement and a high Will save. This guy is close to immune to anything the wizard can throw at him and he is not that uncommon at the higher levels.
To be fair, the same goes for a blaster facing a foe with Evasion or a ring of it and a high Reflex save, and facets of that combination are actually easier to get, and at lower levels, than triple whammy you detailed.
But I agree, keeping around at least one or two powerful direct damage spells is never a bad idea; never put all the eggs in one basket, you know?
|
I'd still tend to have an Orb spell as a backup at least later in the campaign. The one weak point for a battlefield control type wizard is the guy who has true seeing, freedom of movement and a high Will save. This guy is close to immune to anything the wizard can throw at him and he is not that uncommon at the higher levels.To be fair, the same goes for a blaster facing a foe with Evasion or a ring of it and a high Reflex save, and facets of that combination are actually easier to get, and at lower levels, than triple whammy you detailed.
But I agree, keeping around at least one or two powerful direct damage spells is never a bad idea; never put all the eggs in one basket, you know?
Not to mention when you come across that room full of orc guards and think, "Now would be a good time for a fireball."
I agree with those who have said the utility caster is, if anything, more effective than the blaster, but sometimes it's nice to have a few blasty spells in reserve. Magic missile is one I always find handy with those pesky high-save, high-AC buggers you can never quite finish off.
I'd recommend a couple summon monster spells when you hit 5th level or so, as well. They can prove as versatile as illusions in combat (damage, draw attacks, flanking, etc.), plus can be used in creative ways outside of combat if you can speak to them in a language they understand.
|
I'd recommend a couple summon monster spells when you hit 5th level or so, as well. They can prove as versatile as illusions in combat (damage, draw attacks, flanking, etc.), plus can be used in creative ways outside of combat if you can speak to them in a language they understand.
Then mix in some illusions of monsters so that your opponents can't take the chance that the slavering fanged beasties on both sides aren't real. Then have a melee party-member with Greater Invisibility attacking from the illusions square :)
|
Then mix in some illusions of monsters so that your opponents can't take the chance that the slavering fanged beasties on both sides aren't real. Then have a melee party-member with Greater Invisibility attacking from the illusions square :)
This, sir, is what we call 'mean'. And also 'giving the DM ideas'. Thanks! Mweheheheheh...
Then mix in some illusions of monsters so that your opponents can't take the chance that the slavering fanged beasties on both sides aren't real. Then have a melee party-member with Greater Invisibility attacking from the illusions square :)This, sir, is what we call 'mean'. And also 'giving the DM ideas'. Thanks! Mweheheheheh...
This tactic actually works better on NPCs than players. Illusions take a standard action to cast, whereas summonings typically take a full round. The party will likely tell the difference by the casting times if they have anyone familiar with the spells. The DM can more easily say the NPCs have no knowledge of such things, and thus it works on them.
... unless the caster is invisible, which makes it much harder to tell how long the guy is actually casting any given spell. Hmm...
Additionally, devils who have any sort of image spell as a spell-like ability can pull this off very easily, as I believe their summon abilities require only a standard action. Then the party really won't know what's going on, because they don't even get a spellcraft check!
This tactic actually works better on NPCs than players. Illusions take a standard action to cast, whereas summonings typically take a full round. The party will likely tell the difference by the casting times if they have anyone familiar with the spells. The DM can more easily say the NPCs have no knowledge of such things, and thus it works on them.
Make sure you know your DM before trying this tactic. In my game my players use spell craft every time anyone casts a spell near them and will tell the difference between a standard action summoning and a full round one very quickly. As a result I essentially rule that all enemies with at least 13 intelligence and any kind of exposure to this sort of thing 'know the rules'. In other words they know that the fighter has a good fort save and that summoning spells take a full round action. They will therefore spot many illusions. This makes illusions significantly less versatile at my table. Certainly my players avoid them generally and instead stick to spells which can't, so easily, turn on them due to the DM being an evil bastard who comes to each game hoping that this will be the night he manages to kill your character.
As with any wizard, "don't put all your eggs in one basket." A mid-level counjurer with couple of summoning spells mixed in with some direct damage (especially the ranged touch, no save, no SR kind), some disabling (evard's tentacles, anyone?), some defensive/buff, and some general purpose spells can help the party clean house big time. A mid-level conjurer who loads up on summoning spells usually ends up in a lot of hurt in combat, unless they take a couple of rounds to cast fly and invisibility first, and loses a lot of their troubleshooting ability.
I haven't tried this, but the first thing that poped into my mind was a drow wizard from War of the Spider Queen named Pharaun Mizzrym. He used alot of wall spells, bigby's spells, web, viscid glob, evard's black tentacles, alot and I mean alot of illusion spells, and a few save or dies ie. phantasmal killer, weird, wail of the banshee. I would go for illusion for battle filled control, but don't be hesitant to drop a fireball or cone of cold. Oh and I would go with a human or gnome well I'd suggest gnome. I'd never play one.
Fizz
I thought the exact same thing because I recently finished the series and what'not. Either way, as a Wizard your choice-as said before-is almost definitely the best choice for you. When it comes to Blasters go with a sorcerer, that's my sorcerers spells, but even with a blaster versatile spells such as ghost form and Evards Black Tentacles will always help. Being a Wizard that uses battle control get some illusionists spells such as solipism from the Spell compendium, and try using a few conjuration spells like summon monster. Also Grease and web are great spells to get. Don't count all direct damage spells out though, always have a fireball stored or when you get sixth level spells try out the ever popular Delayed Fireball Blast, because if your a little on the cruel side use a hold monster/hold person and drop a Delayed Fireball Blast in their eye lid(once you get it, try this with Time Stop)... Well, just go the way your going and you should be absolutely fine as a wizard!
Your friend,
Sir Smashes Alot
We just had a fight in which the PCs summoned and buffed a bone devil, and then the party (invisible, flying) and the bone devil (not invisible, but flying) swooped into a big cavern full of demons. The bone devil, like most Monster Summoning creatures, was not actually powerful enough to do very much to the demons, but they were so excited to see their arch-enemy looking outnumbered and vulnerable that it distracted them mightily from the PCs. And demons and devils have a terrible time hurting each other, so the bone devil lasted quite a while, sucking up attacks and Dispels that would otherwise have hit the PCs.
I ran a dedicated Monster Summoning wizard in v3.0. It was tough, and not really competitive with various other things she could have been doing. The one-round casting time is a problem, and the creatures are a bit weak for the spell level at which you get them. She did find, though, that even a tiny fire elemental is a good way to keep regenerating creatures down, that flying creatures can save your life if the party can't fly, and that being able to cast an offensively useful spell without breaking Invisibility is quite handy.
I'd let an illusionist who wanted his illusion to be mistaken for a summoning cast it as a full-round action and apply Bluff versus the opponent's Spellcraft if he wanted. Of course, the full-round action is a high price to pay.
Mary