In preparation for running this adventure series, I am making a few modifications to some of the standard rules. This is one of the ideas I came up with and thought I'd share with all of you. It's easy to adapt to any setting that makes heavy armors seem kinda obsolete. So feel free to use it. Critiques are welcomed. Enjoy!
Modifying Heavy Armor Proficiencies
Unlike many other ‘typical’ campaigns, heavy armor is not as common in this particular setting. The hot and humid climate makes it very uncomfortable to wear for more than an hour, and can potentially be dangerous to the wearer if worn for long periods of time. Heat, dehydration, and exhaustion can cause more problems to a character in the long run than the immediate protection that it provides.
For a seafaring traveler, however, the danger is even greater when close to open waters. Even a strong swimmer can be greatly impeded by wearing any weighty gear that restricts his movements. A person who is unable to swim should avoid even shallow waters because it only takes a few feet to find yourself on your back and unable to reach the surface for air. In essence, wearing heavy armor is like wearing an anchor that will most likely just pull you down to the bottom.
For these reasons, it seems impractical to expect that characters from regions like this are frequently trained in the use of these types of armors. That is not to suggest that heavy armors do not exist here or are never used by anyone. It is simply less practiced and not as common as other places. Anyone may still take the feat normally as one of their normal selections if they meet the prerequisites.
If you are playing a fighter, cleric, paladin, or any other base character class that grants Armor Proficiency (Heavy) at first level, then you have an option. You may retain your armor proficiency and deal with the hazards of wearing heavy armor in the given environment, or you can replace it with one of the following abilities listed below.
These options are only available at first level if you belong to one of these classes, and only one of these abilities can ever be taken by a character. Thus, you cannot select one when you create a paladin, then select a different one when you decide to take a level of cleric or fighter. They are not feats that can be taken at any time.
These unique abilities reflect a considerable amount of time spent in a region that lends itself to a certain lifestyle or technique. They are intended to reflect the conditions of the given environment and encourage characters, which would normally rely on heavier armors, to keep in theme with the setting without being punished for it. Each option allows the player to utilize the strength of his particular character, and compensates for the loss of a potentially better defensive rating in a way that is neither superior nor exploitable.
Weathered Skin
Your skin has grown thick and rough from many years of exposure to the sun, wind, and water. As a result, you are able to absorb more pain and solid blows against your bare skin; the more that is exposed, the better you are able to do this.
Benefit: You gain a natural armor bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Constitution score bonus if you are wearing light or no armor. If you are wearing medium armor, then you only add one-half your bonus (rounded down). You cannot use this ability while wearing heavy armor.
The bonus applies to Armor Class even if the character is caught flat-footed, when he becomes immobilized, or is helpless, but not against touch attacks.
Special: This ability will not stack with any other abilities that grant an Armor Class bonus from Constitution-based skills or abilities.
Disciplined Defense
You are trained in the art of fighting defensively using your maneuverability and reflexes in a skilled manner. Through practice and training, you are able to control your movements more efficiently and effectively, making you harder to hit in a fight. This ability becomes impeded or restricted when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Benefit: You gain a competence bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Intelligence score bonus if you are wearing light or no armor. If you are wearing medium armor, then you only add one-half your bonus (rounded down). You cannot use this ability while wearing heavy armor.
The bonus applies to Armor Class even against touch attacks, but not if the character is caught flat-footed, when he becomes immobilized, or is helpless.
Special: This ability will not stack with any other abilities that grant an Armor Class bonus from Intelligence based skills or abilities, such as Combat Expertise.
Intuitive Defense
You are trained in certain fighting techniques that allow you to read your opponent and anticipate his moves before he even makes them. Through practice, training, and meditation, you are able to avoid or counter blows more effectively, making you harder to hit. This ability becomes impeded or restricted when wearing medium or heavy armor.
The bonus applies to Armor Class even against touch attacks, but not if the character is caught flat-footed, when he becomes immobilized, or is helpless.
Benefit: You gain an insight bonus to your Armor Class equal to your Wisdom score bonus if you are wearing light or no armor. If you are wearing medium armor, then you only add one-half your bonus (rounded down). You cannot use this ability while wearing heavy armor.
Special: This ability will not stack with any other abilities that grant an Armor Class bonus from Wisdom-based skills or abilities, such as a monk’s AC bonus class ability.
Those seem a bit too powerful to me. But maybe that's just me. And in the end, you're the DM, and if you're ok with it, then roll with it.
thank you Archon of Light. I Have been enlightened. I like the idea but will probably keep more RAW. We already started the campaign and i do not want to argue with my players about it. But I like the feats and may incorperate them in the game.
Fiendish Dire Weasel wrote: Those seem a bit too powerful to me. But maybe that's just me. And in the end, you're the DM, and if you're ok with it, then roll with it. I've posted this on several different boards to gather as much feedback as possible in order to troubleshoot it better. Sometimes having a few different perspectives can help identify possible chinks in the armor. This helps me to think about changes that may be needed that I didn't consider yet, and hopefully I can do this before I introduce them into a running campaign.
First thing I should add is that this potentially works better in games where rolling stats do not generate a lot of high bonus scores. I've always been an advocate of point-buy systems, so I never really have to worry about characters who are so powerful at the start just because of some lucky rolls.
The biggest offense for exploitation is in the armors themselves, especially chain shirts. Medium armors are not as appealing as light that allow for less skill penalties and potentially equal Armor Classes for characters with good enough ability scores in Dexterity. Heavy armors, while more restrictive with skill checks and movement, still afford the best protection even without a decent Dex bonus. As it is, medium armors are not nearly as appealing as their competitors. That's just the way WotC designed them. I'm thinking of adding DR 1/- for medium and 2/- for heavy armors to remedy this. I might also remove certain armors that are just too good, like chain shirts. With a system like this in place, they no longer need to cover that particular niche to compete with medium armors.
One thing I've noticed about the DnD system is that it is very tightly wound; any change you make to the core system tends to affect a lot of other things around it. But I expected as much. ;)
Sir Kaikillah wrote: thank you Archon of Light. I Have been enlightened. I like the idea but will probably keep more RAW. We already started the campaign and i do not want to argue with my players about it. But I like the feats and may incorperate them in the game. Thanks. I like to help break the stereotypes and get people thinking differently. This is definately something that should be added at the beginning of a game rather than dropped into the middle of a campaign. However, feel free to present the ideas to your players and see what they think. If they really like it, you might be able to work it in with only some minor adjustments. You never know.
And just so nobody is confused, they are not feats. Think of them as new options for character classes that begin with heavy armor proficiency for free. If anyone could take these as a feat, they would be overpowered without some serious prerequisites. Even so, they would still be very exploitable and potentially damaging to the game.
It just occurred to me today...
For any of these abilities, the applied bonuses combined with the normal Dexterity bonus for Armor Class cannot exceed the armor's Max Dex Bonus. Dexterity bonuses are always applied first. Thus, a character with ability scores of Dexterity 16 (+3) and Wisdom 14 (+2) using the Intuitive Defense ability could only gain a total of +4 bonus when wearing Chain Shirt (3 for Dex, and only 1 for Wisdom).
The great thing about adding more restrictions is that you can now introduce feats to get around them. For example, we can add a feat that allows you to apply your Wisdom bonus first instead of your Dexterity bonus. I'm not sure what the great benefit of this would be, but you are basically giving priority to your Insight bonus rather than your normal Dex bonus, which I believe is a Dodge bonus. Of course, you would at least need to have the Intuitive Defense class ability as a prerequisite.
The feat idea is an option, but I think adding the standard Max Dex restriction helps puts things back in line. Does that look better now? Any thoughts?
Archon of Light wrote: Modifying Heavy Armor Proficiencies
I've played with this one in my homebrew campaign, and run into the issue that chain shirt + Dex + Wis = much preferrable to heavy armor (esp. for multiclassed characters). I've introduced an alternate class feature that trades Medium and Heavy Armor proficiencies for the Swashbuckler's Grace and Dodge class features (effective Swashbuckler level = class level in the class normally granting the armor proficiencies). Alternatively, they can give up all armor and shields for the monk AC bonuses (likewise). The first option in particular has been successful, because the player (who has a bard/paladin with the Devoted Performer feat) now feels like he gets something for not having the paladin's usual heavy armor, but the bonuses aren't really all that great--certainly not good enough to be game-breaking or even close to overpowered.
Kirth Gersen wrote: I've played with this one in my homebrew campaign, and run into the issue that chain shirt + Dex + Wis = much preferrable to heavy armor (esp. for multiclassed characters). I've introduced an alternate class feature that trades Medium and Heavy Armor proficiencies for the Swashbuckler's Grace and Dodge class features (effective Swashbuckler level = class level in the class normally granting the armor proficiencies). Alternatively, they can give up all armor and shields for the monk AC bonuses (likewise). The first option in particular has been successful, because the player (who has a bard/paladin with the Devoted Performer feat) now feels like he gets something for not having the paladin's usual heavy armor, but the bonuses aren't really all that great--certainly not good enough to be game-breaking or even close to overpowered. Thank you for sharing your insights! It is certainly easier for me to speculate what may or may not happen, but until I put it to the test, its really anyone's guess how things might work out. Sharing your experiences with similar house rules is very appreciated, and something I didn't think would be so difficult to find after posting this in several different forums.
The more I have thought about this, the greater my own insights have become on this subject. When I looked over the various armors in the PHB, I found that all the armors can potentially provide nearly the same amount of protection (typically around +7 to +9) if the character had a high enough Dexterity bonus. The only real disadvantage occurs when the character is denied this bonus, such as when he is caught flat-footed or immobilized. (Incidently, I found that the chain shirt was WAY too good for the price listed. I'd recommend increasing the cost significantly, like maybe THREE times as much, or just getting rid of it altogether. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter option, but I've not yet decided.)
When we remove or penalize the use of heavy armors further, we encourage players to compensate by dumping more points into their Dexterity scores. In a point-buy system, this means sacrificing other pertinent scores and creating a group of extremely nimble and highly agile fighters, clerics, and paladins. That should be a choice, not a requirement.
So I looked back at my original premise: to compensate for not using heavy armor. In my experience, most characters were not able to obtain heavy armors until they've earned enough gold, which usually takes a few levels to get. Even treasure hoards and opponents wouldn't have such strong armors at first level. So why are we trying to give them this extra advantage right away?
Currently, I'm taking a different approach and introducing some new and different ideas for alternate class features. By delaying the benefits a few levels, I have completely eliminated the level-dipping problems that seem to be the plague of so many gaming tables. Also, since they are now suitable for higher level characters, the benefits themselves can be slightly better and more powerful without worrying about unbalancing at beginning levels.
Sometimes I look back at what I started on and just want to smack myself in the head. What was I thinking?! Well, here's what I'm thinking now. These first two are options for the Fighter class. I'll add more as I create them for paladins and clerics. Feel free to critque these and see if you can find potential flaws in them, or suggest changes that you think are better.
Damage Reduction (Ex)
Similar to the barbarian’s class feature, the fighter is able to absorb or shrug off some amount of injury from each blow or attack. Beginning at 5th level, the character gains damage reduction 1/-, and improves by 1 point for every five levels thereafter (i.e. 2/- at 10th level, 3/- at 15th level, and 4/- at 20th level).
A fighter who chooses Damage Reduction as a class feature does not gain Heavy Armor Proficiency at first level. Furthermore, he does not receive a bonus feat at levels 10 and 20. Unlike most of the other class features here, however, the character will still benefit from this ability while wearing heavy armor.
Martial Defense Discipline (Ex)
Some warriors believe that the best defense in a battle comes from one’s own skills. Such fighters disdain the use of heavier armors because they can severely impede their maneuverability, and may consider it a sign of weakness or a lack of faith in one’s own ability.
Beginning at 5th level, the fighter adds a 1-point competence bonus to his Armor Class while wearing medium or lighter armor and not carrying a heavy load. This bonus increases to +2 at level 12 and +3 at level 19.
This bonus applies to Armor Class even against touch attacks, but not if the character is caught flat-footed, when he becomes immobilized, or is helpless. This ability does not function whenever heavy armor is worn.
A fighter who trains in the Martial Defense Discipline does not gain Heavy Armor Proficiency at first level. The fighter does not gain a bonus feat at level 12.
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I would actually be concerned about the playability of the abilities at lower levels.
I find that after 5th level, standard armor is no longer a factor (against a Fighter that is) and it is increasingly easy to hit the target. Ex, 5th level Fighter 1 [+5], 18 STR [+4], Masterwork weapon [+1] = +10; Fighter 2 in Full Plate [+8], 12 DEX [+1], Heavy Steel Shield [+2] = +11; Fighter 1 needs an 11 or less to hit Fighter 2 without any circumstance bonuses (flanking, bless, bull's strength, etc).
Without figuring the numbers, you have the opposite happen. Furthermore, you may run into problems at the high levels maintaining enough defense for the armored characters. Especially if you limit the bonus to the Max DEX.
Of course, the option may not be taken. I like that it is optional. I would make them feats with a pre-req of "Can only be taken at character creation". This gives the player the option to take them, but it also requires some sacrifice (heavy armor protects and hinders, can't be all positives). They still have the option to use the heavy armor if they need it. It's not like heroes always adventure in the same place, they may go north for an adventure or the rest of their lives.
I would also suggest re-reading pages 171-2 of the PH. Be careful of the way you classify the bonuses, stacking can cause issues later on. I would give the bonus as an unnamed bonus. You already have enough restrictions on how it can be used to warrant this type of bonus.
Careful with your Weathered Skin bonus. Natural armor bonus is a very strong bonus. I would DEFINATELY require this as a feat. No sense giving the kind of bonus that Dragons are made of at first level. Much less if they plan on multiclassing to any other class for that matter (effective 14 flat footed AC).
I'd also stat these up similar to the Monk ability (negated if helpless, etc).
Regarding your DR, that's what makes the Barbarian so cool! You're giving the Fighter abilities that require feat selections or multiclassing for "free" (yeah, at the cost of 2 feats later on, but you get the benefits before the "cost" at tenth level).
Your Martial Defense is much better laid out. My problem is "What makes the Monk so special?"
Yeah, this is a bit harsh, but I also have constructive criticism : )
Me, I don't think I'd use them. Of course, that's my opinion. That, and I'm grappling with my issue (see begining).
Why not just use the SRD's DEFENCE BONUS varient rules.
They play well and save you a bunch of work.
FH
tdewitt274 wrote: I would actually be concerned about the playability of the abilities at lower levels. <snip> I've already scratched off the first three options because of this reason. Unfortunately, these forums don't allow me to go back and edit them, so all I can do is move forward. Thanks for the heads up, though.
Quote: Of course, the option may not be taken. I like that it is optional. I would make them feats with a pre-req of "Can only be taken at character creation". This gives the player the option to take them, but it also requires some sacrifice (heavy armor protects and hinders, can't be all positives). They still have the option to use the heavy armor if they need it. It's not like heroes always adventure in the same place, they may go north for an adventure or the rest of their lives. Considering that I am designing these rules specifically for the Savage Tide AP, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming they won't be heading too far north. Even so, these are not options meant to be open to any character class. That's why they are not feats.
Oh, and I do use the rules for Heat Dangers, so wearing Heavy Armors is not without risks. (Check out DMG pg 303 to see what I'm talking about). I will also use bull rush or grapple attempts to knock them into the water by the smarter opponents, which most pirates and cutthroats in these types of settings would consider it a very sound tactic. ;)
Quote: I would also suggest re-reading pages 171-2 of the PH. Be careful of the way you classify the bonuses, stacking can cause issues later on. I would give the bonus as an unnamed bonus. You already have enough restrictions on how it can be used to warrant this type of bonus. Each one had a different type of bonus for a reason. They fit their descriptions and gave each one their own unique benefit and disadvantage over the others. Plus, I'd prefer not to leave them stackable with everything else. That's overpowering. And since their already cut, the point is moot anyway.
Quote: Regarding your DR, that's what makes the Barbarian so cool! You're giving the Fighter abilities that require feat selections or multiclassing for "free" (yeah, at the cost of 2 feats later on, but you get the benefits before the "cost" at tenth level). Let's put this into perspective. Barbarians have a d12 for hit dice. Barbarians can also rage to increase their Con, and gain even more hit points (even if only temporary). Barbarians are designed to take large amounts of damage, but are easier to hit. Fighters, on the other hand, use a d10 for hit dice and wear heavier armor to protect themselves. A very small amount of DR for them is not going to help them as much as it does a barbarian. But it does help. IMO, it's a very fair and balanced feature to add. I don't see it as taking away from the barbarian as much as it is a nod to the class, allowing the fighter to embrace one of their remarkable traits.
Quote: Your Martial Defense is much better laid out. My problem is "What makes the Monk so special?" What does a monk have to do with this particular feature for a fighter? I wouldn't know because I don't allow monks in my campaigns, so perhaps it's just irrelevant to me.
Quote: Yeah, this is a bit harsh, but I also have constructive criticism : ) Maybe I missed the 'harshness' somewhere, but I appreciate you coming forth and offering your perspectives on this. Thanks. :)
Fake Healer wrote: Why not just use the SRD's DEFENCE BONUS varient rules.
They play well and save you a bunch of work.
FH
A) I don't think they play that well, and B) I like this kind of work. ;)
Because of the setting none of my characters were Medium of Heavy armor (except for one wearing elvin chain which is consiered light).
Since most of them at 8th level have AC's around 28 it doesn't appear to be a problem.
terok11 wrote: Because of the setting none of my characters were Medium of Heavy armor (except for one wearing elvin chain which is consiered light).
Since most of them at 8th level have AC's around 28 it doesn't appear to be a problem.
Just out of curiosity, what are their Dex scores and what kind of magical armors/protective items are they wearing?
Their Dex scores average around 20, most are wearing magical mithral chain shirts, all are using weapon expertise, couple are using magical bucklers with impoved buckler defense with 2 weapon fighting. One has an animated shield. Add in Rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, dodge, and with the expertise they jump up into the 30's. the cleric then spends most combats buffing the group with his wandf of prayer and other buff spells.
They are a very nimble group.
Archon of Light wrote: terok11 wrote: Because of the setting none of my characters were Medium of Heavy armor (except for one wearing elvin chain which is consiered light).
Since most of them at 8th level have AC's around 28 it doesn't appear to be a problem.
Just out of curiosity, what are their Dex scores and what kind of magical armors/protective items are they wearing?
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