The Rhagodessa is a rather potent creature introduced in the first adventure of the Savage Tide (There Is No Honor). But I do have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer for me regarding how they play.
The first being how their full attacks function in conjunction with their pedipalps. The description for their improved grab says that if they hit with a pedipalp attack, they can attempt to start a grapple as a free action...and can make a bite attack as a free action, with a +4 bonus. My questions arise from here.
First, can they use their improved grab against creatures of medium size (or larger, theoretically) with their pedipalps, or are they too subject to the restriction that it can only be used on a smaller creature? (I believe this restriction comes from the improved grab description in the Monster Manual.) In a way, this question can apply to the ravenous zombie pirates to follow in this adventure, and their improved grab (bite).
Second, if they make a full attack action, hit with a pedipalp, follow it with a successful grapple, and then bite attack, can they continue with their full attack action? Is their full attack action canceled by starting a grapple? If not, does this mean that it can make up to three bite attacks a round with a full action, provided that each pedipalp hits, and that by winning the grapple check for improved grab, it is allowed to make a bite attack as a free action?
Finally, does the +4 bonus that the rhagodessa gains for making a bite attack following a successful grapple help to negate the -4 penalty that usually follows making an attack in a grapple, or do the rhagodessas somehow supercede this penalty? (Penalty to hit with natural weapon listed under Grapple in PHB.)
Again, I absolutely love these original creatures--especially considering they are vermin, and always useful--that help to represent the brutal spirit of the Savage Tide Adventure Path. If anyone could help me (and others) to clear up these questions, I'd greatly appreciate it.
My impression with the rhagodessas was that they could use their Improved Grab attack upon opponents of equal size, but there's nothing in the text to support this, so feel free to assume that they're limited to using it against Small or smaller foes. Likewise the hungry zombies.
As for the rhagodessa's full attack routine, once it hits with its first pedipalp and makes its free Grapple check plus bite, it is now grappling its opponent. This means that it doesn't threaten the squares around it, and can't attack anyone outside the grapple. However, it can still use its full attack routine against the creature it's grappling, gaining a second Bite attack against him.
The rhagodessa can take advantage of the rule in Improved Grapple that lets it grapple without being considered grappled itself, thus tying up only one pedipalp, but to do so it must take a -20 penalty to its Grapple checks, for a total modifier of -9. It's unlikely to want to do that against anything larger than Tiny.
Improved Grab only works on creatures one size smaller. Monster Manual Glossary.
The rest of your question is a thorny one. Improved grab is designated a "free action" so we've always said that it does not interrupt your full attack. The bite with the improved grab is also a free action so I'd give it multiple bites.
So, make all of your attacks first. For each ped that hits, make grapple check. If success on the grapple, bite again. If the PC is successfully grappled on the first ped, I would not give a second bite if the second ped hit.
I would agree with the above posts, except for one thing. A long time ago when the issue first came out, I posted some similar questions. I seem to recall someone said something to the effect of that they had intended the Rhagodessa to be able to use improved grab on medium creatures as well, and that it didn't get into the stat block by mistake. It is true that improved grab generally only works on creatures one size smaller, but there are some exceptions which are noted in their individual stat blocks.
Ah, here, check out this thread here
I would agree with the above posts, except for one thing. A long time ago when the issue first came out, I posted some similar questions. I seem to recall someone said something to the effect of that they had intended the Rhagodessa to be able to use improved grab on medium creatures as well, and that it didn't get into the stat block by mistake. It is true that improved grab generally only works on creatures one size smaller, but there are some exceptions which are noted in their individual stat blocks.
Ah, here, check out this thread here
Thanks for the link! That clears up the rhagodessa's improved grab, at least. I'm still unsure about the nature of the free bite after a grab, in conjunction with a full attack, however. I'm not opposed to going one way or the other, or with ruling as a DM that it can make that second bite. (My players balked at the sound of a creature making two bites in a round aboard the Blue Nixie, but that encounter went soundly, albeit challengingly.) Still, with the possibility of them fighting three in the Lotus Dragon's Guildhall, I would like to make sure if and when I TPK (here's hoping!) my PCs, that I don't do so by stretching the rules.
(Pardon my bloodthirst, but after AoW, and not a single player losing a single character, I wanna at least serve up one funerary encounter. And low-level gameplay seems like the most accessible means for me.)
It lists the bite as a "free action" with a successful grapple. Free actions are free, it doesn't cost the creature it's normal bite. I can't see much room to argue that one.
The "hit with both pedipalps, two successful grapples, so I get *two* free bites, plus a normal bite" = that seems a bit much. After all, how can you grapple me with that second pedipalp and bite me when I am already grappled by the first one?
The "hit with both pedipalps, two successful grapples, so I get *two* free bites, plus a normal bite" = that seems a bit much. After all, how can you grapple me with that second pedipalp and bite me when I am already grappled by the first one?
I agree with that. The free bite attack comes after the rhagodessa successfully starts a grapple as part of its pedipalp attack, and it can't start a grapple on a creature it's already grappling.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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How's about attacking, grappling and biting a second character in the same area. This sort of thing reminds me of what the flotsam ooze will get up to when the PCs get there too and I'd like to have it solid in my head!
(We started last week, next week is the Nixie :D)
When you are grappling, you do not threaten, so you cannot attack other people. The exception would be when taking a -20 on your grapple check with improved grab - but it's going to be pretty hard to beat anyone's grapple check that way, for this critter.
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The Rhagodessa is a rather potent creature introduced in the first adventure of the Savage Tide (There Is No Honor). But I do have a few questions I was hoping someone could answer for me regarding how they play.
I posted some similar questions which were answered very helpfully, you can view the thread HERE.
I hope this helps.
paz
Our encounter with the Rhagodessa went awful.
The fight aboard the Nixie went fairly well, with our Goliath Fighter and Catfolk Rogue doing most of the damage (The Dwarven Fighter/Dragon Shaman was so heavily-burdened by armour that he couldn't make a climb check to get aboard!). Once everyone was on deck, the cleric and rogue started mopping up what was left of the group while the dwarf and goliath checked ahead.
The Rhagodessa instantly knocked the Goliath from 5 or 6 HP to -9 (actually, -10, but I Hate killing PCs in the first encounter!) and started it's work on the dwarf, paralyzing him. If it weren't for the cleric's lucky blow with his mace, the whole fight could've wound up as a TPK.
Later on, the second time the group fought the Rhagodessa, they got paranoid. The Goliath charged and power-attacked (in the hopes of landing a quick kill) while everyone else fought at range.
Nasty little buggers.
Rhagodessa always seems to get slaughtered when I run it. The rogue nearly always hides behind the mast, get surprise round in and hits with sneak attack. Then, I roll 3-4 on a d20 for init, and from there the fighter attacks, taking it down to around 8.Then, the cleric and wizard go in and finish it off... (damn you Cleric with two-handed damage Maul and Str 16... 1d10+4!)
Our encounter with the Rhagodessa went awful.
The fight aboard the Nixie went fairly well, with our Goliath Fighter and Catfolk Rogue doing most of the damage (The Dwarven Fighter/Dragon Shaman was so heavily-burdened by armour that he couldn't make a climb check to get aboard!). Once everyone was on deck, the cleric and rogue started mopping up what was left of the group while the dwarf and goliath checked ahead.
The Rhagodessa instantly knocked the Goliath from 5 or 6 HP to -9 (actually, -10, but I Hate killing PCs in the first encounter!) and started it's work on the dwarf, paralyzing him. If it weren't for the cleric's lucky blow with his mace, the whole fight could've wound up as a TPK.
Later on, the second time the group fought the Rhagodessa, they got paranoid. The Goliath charged and power-attacked (in the hopes of landing a quick kill) while everyone else fought at range.
Nasty little buggers.
I love the make-up of your party, though! I've been trying to get my players to play goliaths, catfolk, and the like (there's almost all humans this game, save two.) Just thought I share that.
I seriously punished our half-orc crusader. I blasted him from the first round/first atk w/a musket (yep I upped the EL for that), max dmg. Barely alive, he eventually jumped through the covering from the deck into the rhagodessa pen by himself (after being healed) only to be assaulted by a full atk from the vermin (hence, bringing my question about the two-bites full circle, as that's what I did to him)...dropping him to -12! (We use the "go to negative Constitution" house rule, so he had a few rounds.) And this was the first time this player had ever been in one of my games. He said he had a great time!
I'm hoping for that same paranoid reaction when--and, if--they meet up with them in the pen in the guildhall. Three of them might get them to run for their lives! Hahahaha! (Evil DM laugh!)