Mixing up Monsters in Life's Bazaar


Shackled City Adventure Path


Let me start by saying my group and I are 3 sessions into this Adventure Path (They just reached Ghelve's Locks) and are thoroughly enjoy every minute so far.

However, one thing that has consistently bothered me since I picked up the Path a month ago is the creatures in Jzadirune. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but they always strike me as kind of lame. So, at the last minute, I've decided to change them out for something a bit more to my tastes.

On that note, let me backtrack a bit and give a few details on my campaign. First of all, its set in the Western Heartlands of Faerun, but I play fast and loose with the campaign setting. I tried to set the game up with a traditional, high-fantasy flair, and so far, it seems to be holding up - maybe this is why the Dark Creepers, the Skulks and the Ragomuffyn (shudder) never sat right with me. I have five first level PCs with pretty high starting power (40 pt. buy, extra feat, ~1000 bonus starting gold), but none of them are very good at min/maxing, so they are probably a solid EL 2 party.

So, I've thrown out the Skulks, the Dark Creepers (And the Dark Stalker), the Ragomuffyn, and the Malachite Fortress's Hobgoblins (Our last campaign was Red Hand of Doom, so we've all had quite our share of Hobgoblins for the time being) but I've hit a snag trying to figure out what to replace them with. I've traded the Skulks for Shade warriors seeking the secrets of Jzadirune's spell weaver vault, but the others I'm unsure on. Possible creatures on the table include Derro, Duergar, Drow, and Troglodytes, but I'm open to all suggestions.

I'm most interested adding to the High Fantasy factor, while still maintaining the same general roles the replaced creatures held. What sort of creatures would best fit the bill?

Liberty's Edge

Chalkboard Sonata wrote:


So, I've thrown out the Skulks, the Dark Creepers (And the Dark Stalker), the Ragomuffyn, and the Malachite Fortress's Hobgoblins (Our last campaign was Red Hand of Doom, so we've all had quite our share of Hobgoblins for the time being) but I've hit a snag trying to figure out what to replace them with. I've traded the Skulks for Shade warriors seeking the secrets of Jzadirune's spell weaver vault, but the others I'm unsure on. Possible creatures on the table include Derro, Duergar, Drow, and Troglodytes, but I'm open to all suggestions.

I'm most interested adding to the High Fantasy factor, while still maintaining the same general roles the replaced creatures held. What sort of creatures would best fit the bill?

try a grick instead of raggomoffyn.

Bugbears or instead of hobs.

Duegar instead of creepers.

but to be honest, I'm not sure why you need to change the creatures just to make it a high fantasy flair? Whats wrong with it as written? I mean, its not the creatures, its the way you utilize them that will dictate whether or not the encounters are remembered for their flair; theres nothing at all wrong with the encounter types - plus the stalkers and creepers meet the criteria for silent stalkers at night stealing the kidnapped victims.

Happy Gaming, and good luck,
Robert


Robert Brambley wrote:

try a grick instead of raggomoffyn.

Bugbears or instead of hobs.

Duegar instead of creepers.

but to be honest, I'm not sure why you need to change the creatures just to make it a high fantasy flair? Whats wrong with it as written? I mean, its not the creatures, its the way you utilize them that will dictate whether or not the encounters are remembered for their flair; theres nothing at all wrong with the encounter types - plus the stalkers and creepers meet the criteria for silent stalkers at night stealing the kidnapped victims.

Happy Gaming, and good luck,
Robert

Like I said originally, I'm not sure why I'm not keen on the dark creepers and skulks, but they just didn't jive with me when I read through the adventure. Maybe I just wasn't in to monsters without developed histories when I read the AP the first time, maybe I just felt they were bland, I'm not entirely sure.

Maybe I could get some help identifying what role each creature plays in the adventure, especially from those who have already seen the monsters in action.

Right now, it looks like the skulks represent the spies/kidnappers for Kazmojen, while the Hobgoblins act as the enforcers. I'm having trouble figuring out what the Dark Creepers contribute, both in terms of logistical in-game, 'why they help with the Kidnappings' way, and a meta-game, 'why they are even in the adventure at all' way. To me, it almost seems like they are in the module just to be monsters, and if that's the case, it won't suffer much if they are removed or replaced by creatures who, in my opinion, are more interesting.

Anyway, I'm still very much interested in hearing other opinions.

Liberty's Edge

The Dark Creepers are more concerned with making use out of Jzadirune. They used the automatons to make all the tunnels and everything. Think of them as the "labor".

Don't get rid of the raggamoffyn. They're one of the coolest monsters ever, and they fit in nicely with the theme of "all the magic items the gnomes were making went crazy". Hell if you wanted to you could probably replace some of the encounters with a few animated objects.


I thinking overnight on it, I think what I will do is trade the Dark Creepers for Shades, the Skulks for Drow, and the Hobgoblins for Duergar. I'm still in the process of figuring out why all these disparate groups are working together, and I'm half a heart ready to unofficially retitle the adventure "Strange Bedfellows."


Chalkboard Sonata wrote:
I thinking overnight on it, I think what I will do is trade the Dark Creepers for Shades, the Skulks for Drow, and the Hobgoblins for Duergar. I'm still in the process of figuring out why all these disparate groups are working together, and I'm half a heart ready to unofficially retitle the adventure "Strange Bedfellows."

If you want to replace hobgoblins due to extensive use in a previous campaign, the duergar seem like a good replacement to me. As for the other two groups, why not something like the following?

Skulks: There is a hidden colony of skulks within Cauldron and the underlying tunnels. Kazmojen made contact with them and hired them as kidnappers, promising plenty of opportunity for murder and torture as well as coin. Fill out other activities and heirarchy as desired. As very chaotic creatures, there's not likely to be a coherent group structure beyond those who are in the employ of Kazmojen.

Dark Creepers: This was a small band travelling through the Underdark who were seeking out Jzadirune's secrets. They came to the Malachite Hold and met Kazmojen, who agreed to let them explore Jzadirune in return for protection against intruders.

I'm not sure I understand the desire for "high-fantasy flair", as I think the skulks and dark creepers actually have quite a bit of flair and are certainly rather fantastic. As the party in my campaign is just beginning exploration of Jzadirune, I'm finding that these creatures really help to lend a creepy, shadowy atmosphere to the ruins which highlights their haunted nature. YMMV.


When I ran this adventure, I took the suggestion from someone on these boards to have the dark creepers be the magically twisted descendants of gnomes who survived the first onslaught of the Vanishing but were somehow altered by the magical disease into these magically shadowed "evil gnomes." I had the gnome player in the party know stories from childhood about the "shadow gnomes" which would allegedly eat children who'd been bad. That made the creepers a bit more, well, creepy.

Liberty's Edge

zoroaster100 wrote:
When I ran this adventure, I took the suggestion from someone on these boards to have the dark creepers be the magically twisted descendants of gnomes who survived the first onslaught of the Vanishing but were somehow altered by the magical disease into these magically shadowed "evil gnomes." I had the gnome player in the party know stories from childhood about the "shadow gnomes" which would allegedly eat children who'd been bad. That made the creepers a bit more, well, creepy.

Thats a great idea - I'll have to borrow that.

Add that to the rumor the PCs heard in the first game (the one about the evil looking gnome with crooked teeth which I think was a dream by one of the children at the orphanage) and the PCs began investigating gnomes. As a off the cuff adlib, I had a gnome NPC mention that this was in reference to an old bed-time story that gnomes told their children about the "Sand-man" who would come and eat children when they slept if they were bad......

What a perfect foundation I've already layed by accident for this idea.

Robert


Schmoe wrote:
Chalkboard Sonata wrote:
I thinking overnight on it, I think what I will do is trade the Dark Creepers for Shades, the Skulks for Drow, and the Hobgoblins for Duergar. I'm still in the process of figuring out why all these disparate groups are working together, and I'm half a heart ready to unofficially retitle the adventure "Strange Bedfellows."

If you want to replace hobgoblins due to extensive use in a previous campaign, the duergar seem like a good replacement to me. As for the other two groups, why not something like the following?

Skulks: There is a hidden colony of skulks within Cauldron and the underlying tunnels. Kazmojen made contact with them and hired them as kidnappers, promising plenty of opportunity for murder and torture as well as coin. Fill out other activities and heirarchy as desired. As very chaotic creatures, there's not likely to be a coherent group structure beyond those who are in the employ of Kazmojen.

Dark Creepers: This was a small band travelling through the Underdark who were seeking out Jzadirune's secrets. They came to the Malachite Hold and met Kazmojen, who agreed to let them explore Jzadirune in return for protection against intruders.

I'm not sure I understand the desire for "high-fantasy flair", as I think the skulks and dark creepers actually have quite a bit of flair and are certainly rather fantastic. As the party in my campaign is just beginning exploration of Jzadirune, I'm finding that these creatures really help to lend a creepy, shadowy atmosphere to the ruins which highlights their haunted nature. YMMV.

Nix the "high-fantasy flair" statement. I was trying to figure out a way to describe what I thought about the creatures and that was the first thing that came out. I guess saying that I just felt the creatures were bland and without identifiable characteristics (Or too light-hearted, in the case of the Raggomuffyn) would have been more accurate. However, this new suggestion painting the Dark Creepers being the twisted result of The Vanishing has led me to reconsider my initial attitude. The Dark Creepers may yet find their way back in, but the Hobgoblins are replaced by Duergar (And I think I may recast Kazmojen as a Half-troll/Half-Duergar) and the Skulks are replaced by Shades.


zoroaster100 wrote:
When I ran this adventure, I took the suggestion from someone on these boards to have the dark creepers be the magically twisted descendants of gnomes who survived the first onslaught of the Vanishing but were somehow altered by the magical disease into these magically shadowed "evil gnomes." I had the gnome player in the party know stories from childhood about the "shadow gnomes" which would allegedly eat children who'd been bad. That made the creepers a bit more, well, creepy.

That is an excellent idea! Consider it yoinked.

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