A friend and me have been arguing which is geeker Dungeons and Dragons or World of Warcraft. As you tell my opinion is WoW by the website I am talking on.
Please share your opinion.
I'm going to say apples and oranges, however I do believe you have to have social skills, a fair amount of intelligence, team work skills, and an imagination so I can feel slightly superior than the person that just plays WoW but just as geeky as a WoW player. I think WoW is a quick fix kind of thing for adventure and entertainment, were as D&D is more fulfilling. His to his own as long as everyone is having fun.
Fizz
It is just I invited him to a STAP campaign but he said DandD was too geeky for him and that WoW was a lot better. He also said that most DandD players live w/ their mothers.
Hmmm. He doesn't know about all the WoW players acting out pathetic virtual sex acts in the game? He doesn't know about the people that have severed connections to employment, family and friends in order to point and click their way to level 60?
Jeez. Sitting around a table with your friends talking and imagining stuff is so geeky.
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It is just I invited him to a STAP campaign but he said DandD was too geeky for him and that WoW was a lot better. He also said that most DandD players live w/ their mothers.Hmmm. He doesn't know about all the WoW players acting out pathetic virtual sex acts in the game?
Huh?!? I gotta check this out.
Huh?!? I gotta check this out.It is just I invited him to a STAP campaign but he said DandD was too geeky for him and that WoW was a lot better. He also said that most DandD players live w/ their mothers.Hmmm. He doesn't know about all the WoW players acting out pathetic virtual sex acts in the game?
Here is the cauldron of seething, repressed, basement housed sexuality. I'm certain that any one of those articles is frought with that kind of horror, particularly "Missed Connections" and the RP server entry.
Is Anyone Going to Defend WoW
Nope
Well, there are folks on the boards that do play, including many of our good Paizo staffers. But I'm pretty sure the defense would be "It's a different kind of fun" or "It's good for when you can't actually sit down and play D&D with your friends". It really is hard to beat sitting around with a group of people you know, rolling dice and having fun. I've never seen a single or multiplayer game that has been able to simulate that kind of experience, even if I did enjoy many of the better CRPGs of the single player variety.
Is Anyone Going to Defend WoW
I am.
I don't play D&D 7 days a week and I don't own a Wii, PS3 or X-Box 360. I prefer to play a computer with/against other people than alone against a NPC.
So when my Monday night game is finished what am I supposse to do for entertainment? Sure I go out to shoot pool with friends, I go to a movie with my gf.
But when I want to play...should I play D&D alone? Find another group that I may not enjoy? Well I play Wow, that's what I do. And don't get me on the "it's not really a role-playing game" argument. Roll on a RP server, join an RP guild and BAM you can RP. Because we all know the solo RPGs have LOADS of RP! You RP with NPC that don't respond at all to your actions, you have ONE story arc that you must follow...that is the worst kind of railroading.
So to all those who see WoW (or any other MMO) has some low brow enjoyment and look down at the MMO players of the world...
Get off your high horses you elitist jerks.
Contributor
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Is Anyone Going to Defend WoWI am.
Antoine7, I was totally into your arguments until your last line. Let's all play nice, 'k? :)
Anyway, I too will defend WoW (*gasp*! traitor!) and I don't even play it any more. WoW appeals more to the mainstream than D&D ever has and likely ever will. Just look at the numbers: At its peak D&D could legitimately claim about 1 million players worldwide, although I've also heard the figure of 3 million. That seems mighty pie-in-the-sky to me, but whatever. WoW is up to 8 million and is still growing. Even the smaller MMOs that I play (Guild Wars and City of Heroes) have or had as many or more players than D&D's heyday.
As Fizzban said, though, it's apples and oranges. Some more thoughts...
Are you a geek if you play a computer game? I'm not sure. What's your definition of geek? What makes a game geeky to you? Is it how you play the game or is it what exists within the game? Does playing Halo or Doom make you a geek? I don't think so.
To me, the level of a game's geekery depends on how it's played. With WoW, you sit down at your computer and you play for as long as you want and then you stop. There's no prep time, no hassle, no books. Turn on. Play. Have fun. (Ostensibly.) With D&D, well, we all know what a session of D&D entails. It's work, but it's also a labor of love. WoW is a game people play. D&D is a hobby people engage in. They are not even remotely similar, despite the inclusion of elves and dwarves.
WoW (and all other fantasy RPGs out there) build off the foundations that D&D laid more than 30 years ago. Computer games are simply more accessible than pen and paper games, which means even guys like Bruno the Jock might enjoy playing WoW (or KOTOR or Jade Empire or CoH or GW or EQ or whatever), even if he locks D&D players in their lockers. (Damn you Bruno! Damn you!!!) ;D
Ultimately, it comes down to this: If you play D&D, you're a geek. If you're embarrassed about it, don't play anymore. The rest of us, who revel in our geekery, will continue to play and enjoy ourselves. :)
Yeah...I got carried away at the end there.
I'm sorry about that, but the I still hate it when fellow players act has if they are better because they aren't "polluted" by a computer game...
I should have used other words.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It's a sad sad day when two geeks try to kick eachother down so as not to be the absolute bottomfeeder. Remember what Ronald Reagan said, "one republican should not badmouth another republican," and replace republican with geek.
Geek unity, sez I!!!
Woah, woah, woah. Let's not get carried away there. It is our duty, no, our morale obligation, to make fun of Yug-ih-oh players (or however the heck you spell it).
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Yeah...I got carried away at the end there.
I'm sorry about that, but the I still hate it when fellow players act has if they are better because they aren't "polluted" by a computer game...
I should have used other words.
It's all good. I like PC games. It's just that WoW isn't as good as it's cracked up to be. It's hyped to all hell.
Is Anyone Going to Defend WoW?
I suppose someone might.
Of course, they might also say Roger Moore was a better 007 than Craig Daniel. Nobody's going to listen to that drivel, either :P
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So to all those who see WoW (or any other MMO) has some low brow enjoyment and look down at the MMO players of the world...
Get off your high horses you elitist jerks.
This is to anyone offended though I have never played WoW I am sure I would love it. It is the fact that he will not at all consider play DandD simply because he thinks it is geeky.
He thinks that in DandD it is stupid to pretend to be someone else and even more infuriating is the fact that he thinks it is different with WoW. He thinks that in WoW you are simply playing the character.
Creative Director
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I play World of Warcraft AND I play D&D. It's possible to play and enjoy both games; they're similar, both being games and both sharing the same genre, but they scratch different itches. In my case, they're actually even more closely intertwined than that, since my first real writing gig for Wizards of the Coast was to help write the World of Warcraft RPG. Alas, after we'd finished writing it, WotC decided to back out of the licensed product scene, and the WoW RPG ended up going over to White Wolf to get published. This was all back in the days of Warcraft III, well before World of Warcraft came along.
But in any case, I'll step up an defend World of Warcraft. Neither it nor D&D are "better" than the other. I've had great fun with both, and I've had to put up with jerks and immature players in both games.
Warcraft is great in that you're ALWAYS playing the game; you're never waiting for someone else's turn. Plus, the fact that it's got beautiful art direction & graphics and production values is a huge factor.
D&D is infinitately customizable in a way that, with current technology, a MMORPG can never duplicate. As a DM, you can build entire worlds in a weekend. As a player, you can have actual effects on the game world rather than be one of thousands doing the same thing.
Again; they're both awesome games, and they can both be enjoyed by one person at the same time.
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I play World of Warcraft AND I play D&D. It's possible to play and enjoy both games; they're similar, both being games and both sharing the same genre, but they scratch different itches. In my case, they're actually even more closely intertwined than that, since my first real writing gig for Wizards of the Coast was to help write the World of Warcraft RPG. Alas, after we'd finished writing it, WotC decided to back out of the licensed product scene, and the WoW RPG ended up going over to White Wolf to get published. This was all back in the days of Warcraft III, well before World of Warcraft came along.
But in any case, I'll step up an defend World of Warcraft. Neither it nor D&D are "better" than the other. I've had great fun with both, and I've had to put up with jerks and immature players in both games.
Warcraft is great in that you're ALWAYS playing the game; you're never waiting for someone else's turn. Plus, the fact that it's got beautiful art direction & graphics and production values is a huge factor.
D&D is infinitately customizable in a way that, with current technology, a MMORPG can never duplicate. As a DM, you can build entire worlds in a weekend. As a player, you can have actual effects on the game world rather than be one of thousands doing the same thing.
Again; they're both awesome games, and they can both be enjoyed by one person at the same time.
I totally agree with James (even though I, being a purist, play DDO:Stormreach instead of WOW). I can only play in two monthly games; being adults with busy lives, it just isn't possible to get 8 people together any more often than that. But I still jones for looting and killing gnolls and stuff. DDO gives me my fix and then some. I even got the wife involved and it's really cool when we can game together! In fact, the other day she wanted me to cancel my PnP game so we could DDO! Obviously, I had to draw the line there; as much as I love the virtual gaming, I'll always prefer real-life D&D.
I have also met some really cool people through DDO. My guildies are as good of friends as people that I hang with outside the game. I am even planning on DMing some of them at GenCon this year. The only problem is what edition will we be using. Most of the guildies are 1st and 2nd edition holdouts, and I am a 3.5 elitist!
Here's my take. WoW just isn't detailed enough for me. There's a lot of naked game mechanics that just don't make sense. You can't really interact deeply with NPCs, the great deeds you do don't really change the story or even permanently kill any of the bad guys. It's hard for me to take it seriously for those reasons. Granted the setting is great--and for that reason we're looking to run the WoW roleplaying game as our new Saturday. The problem is you just don't get to do anything with that setting in the MMO. That's the big problem I've always had with MMOs. The only things that matter are guild chat and grinding levels. That doesn't have much appeal to me.
I prefer settings you can really take hold of and deep character centered stories. Granted, a lot of this could be fixed were more people in WoW interested in real roleplay--but again it's hard to do when nothing you do or will ever do has any effect on anything.
On the other hand, I've just started playing Matrix Online and it's everything I could ever want. The storyline is thick and everchanging. There are some great characters willing to deeply roleplay issues of politics and philosophy for hours with you. All the game mechanics are neatly explained so the gameplay makes sense. It's really great. I've been trying to convert all my WoW friends who are getting ever more frustrated with the somewhat less mature gameplay value there. One of my friends put it this way:
"You know what I hate most about WoW. The actual gameplay. It's boring as."
another of my friends famously put it:
"Nothing wrecks MMORPGS more than the people who play them."
Both are either looking to get Matrix Online or are frothing furious that they can't.
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Contributor
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I feel much the same way, Grimcleaver, which is why I switched to Guild Wars. GW has an actual storyline and the game world changes for you as you play. It does this by creating an instance every time you leave town, so as you move through the plot the lands outside the towns change to match where you are in the game. It also allows for a lot more character control than WoW.
Oh, and also, GW has no monthly fee. FTW! :D
I feel much the same way, Grimcleaver, which is why I switched to Guild Wars. GW has an actual storyline and the game world changes for you as you play. It does this by creating an instance every time you leave town, so as you move through the plot the lands outside the towns change to match where you are in the game. It also allows for a lot more character control than WoW.
Oh, and also, GW has no monthly fee. FTW! :D
I used to hate the idea of monthly fees with burning unquenchable hate--and I still am not a huge fan of them, though with Matrix Online I really feel that it's worth it so I don't grumble so much. Were it more expensive though, yeah I would probably go over to something like Guild War.
I wonder how making new instances based on gameplay would work. If two people are in different parts of the game but in the same location, how does that work? Do they see each other? Does the world look different for each of them? Not sure I get how that would happen.
Honestly I'd just be happy if you could kill something and have it stay dead rather than blip back in 10 minutes...
So, D&D vs. Wow, which is better?
That depends on your point of view.
In the movie "40 year Old Virgin"(crudly hilarious, burb.., fart***hehe.), the hero starts as a socially inept, computer gamer with no friends. Why didn't this iconic Uber Geek play D&D? Because you need friends to play D&D.
So who wants to be a 40 year old socially inept, bike riding, virgin, computer gamer?
I guess that depends on your point of view.
Well, I also play WOW and pen and paper D&D; if you play the aberation of DDO then I just have pity for you. I dont see DD vs WOW as exclusive; more geeky; hmm I think the real question are if you are a bigger D&D or WOW geek talking bout myself not the games; does one have more geeky followers than the other; hmm, I think WOW has geekier followers as they are all in the closet and we actually get together to have a game and share conversation, food and drinks and stuff; so WOW followers are definately geekier unless you just do WOW in your non D&D offtime while waiting for the next D&D game :), but then that is not really about the game; that is the geekiness between who is more of a geek those who play live and those who play online i suppose.
Nice Sir K; again; am really starting to enjoy your posts also; D&D ers are friendly; you have to be to have a game.
Nice Sir K; again; am really starting to enjoy your posts also; D&D ers are friendly; you have to be to have a game.
Thank you. Recognition from my peers is always cool. I most say I like what you have to say as well.