Has anyone had much trouble running the encounter with Darl Quethos' band? Has anyone changed out any of the group? I decided that I didn't want to muck things up with an efreet riding a huge nightmare so I replaced it with an 18th level warforged fighter/juggernaut. Hopefully my characters will gain some levels in the next couple of adventures. They're currently 13th (6 PCs) and will finish up SoLS next week. I'll probably find some way to grace them with another level before the start of Prince of Redhand.
Trouble running Darl? I had no more trouble running Darl than any of the encounters after which in case I am saying YES. Stated differently, when you start talking about CR 20+ encounters, things turn ugly for a DM rapidly.
Darl was a blast. One of my players remarked that since Darl, every cleric they encounter is that gods champion - which essentially is what Darl is for Vecna.
Hopefully your PCs will be up for the challenge.
I hope to add in perhaps Raknian the death knight and perhaps Zyrxog or Bozal (level adjusted, of course... should either of them survive and escape the PCs). I was also thinking about including the minotaur fighter mentioned, as if he never had died. I'll definitely need to beef up the encounter concerning my party, which ranges from 6-9 powergamed PCs. ;-)
I have a larger-than-average group of PCs (7), so I added a few extra minions for Darl.
I brought his minotaur minion back to life as a 12th level Crusader (from Book of Nine Swords), and he was fairly interesting. I also changed the brothers from monks to 15th level Shadowcasters (from Tome of Magic)and they ended up being quick kills, but still spooked my players considerably.
I also let Darl have one of the big Bulettes in the area be working with his band thanks to his Wand of Charm Monster. I probably should have given him two of them.
This is one of those fights you should suit to your needs. I recommend throwing him in after the PCs complete a trial, so that--theoretically--they'll have reduced resources.
Darl didn't fare so hot in my campaign. Long story short, MDJ did him in good. But I did throw in a "gated" Molydeus from the Fiendish Codex I, and got a chance to run one of those guys. Lots of fun!
See if you can get Krekie to meet up with him. If she's stalking the PCs, it helps to give further justification if you want Darl to "metagame" with knowledge about the PCs.
I had Darl scrying on them and doing communes/divinations about the PCs the moment they got on the isle. From there, I had Darl call forth through Gate the nastiest monster tailored to the party's weaknesses (They possessed no Arcane, so Chronotryn it was)and sent it after them. It duked it out with them as the rested, and the round after its brutal demise, Darl and Co. showed up in Windwalk form, all buffed and ready. The party actually fled. They knew the difference between a buffed and expended party, and wisely planeshifted away. I suggest Darl fit a proactive role in your campaign, including all of his methods of gathering intelligence about his enemies. He is after all, high priest of one of the gods of Secrets...
My PCs were a bit low level (~15th), so I had them fight Darl, Krekie, and the Sinfire Twins. I also had Darl go a little easy on them (i.e., not use the Hand of Vecna). The battle was a good one, with Darl losing, then winning, then finally being forced to retreat.
They have since encountered him again and the second time the PCs were forced to retreat, tails between their legs.
Here's some tips for you:
1. Keep Darl out of melee range.
2. Give him Disjunction as his domain spell.
3. Bust out the Hand of Vecna and unleash a 20th CL Blasphemy to get things started.
4. Realize that the Sinfire Twins aren't particularly tough.
5. Fight Dirty. Really Dirty.
6. Begin the fight on Darl's terms.
and by all means: USE MALHAZAR'S WISHES!!!!
and by all means: USE MALHAZAR'S WISHES!!!!
You bet this would've changed the flow of the fight. Our party's bard cast Fugue (Spell Comp) on the group, and the efreet--and his nightmare--failed their saves. The efreet started sawing his mount's own head off with the sword...thus unable to cast wish. He then pathetically turned on the Molydeus, who significantly insulted, retaliated with his snake's head poison. *sigh* That hot-headed efreet...
Just finished the third fight with Darl Quethos. As you can tell, I'm using him as a recurring villain, although this may have been his last appearance in this campaign.
PCs are about 17th level on average, versus Darl, a nycaloth commander, mahuudril, and krekie...each side fighting to obtain Dragotha's phylactery.
The fight lasted about 8-10 rounds and was quite brutal. In the end, one pc was imploded, a cohort failed against a wail of the banshee, and the pcs managed to keep Darl's hands off the phylactery by tossing their bag of holding into their portable hole and sending the phylactery adrift in the astral. They later used a wish to recover and destroy it. Good fun.
That's pretty Cool.
In my campaign, the players have already met Darl Quethos. He's the Vecnan equivalent to the Pope. They met him in the Necropolis twice, although from a long distance.
Some of the creatures in Darl Quethos's band where part of the second adventure (Krieke and the Tiefling brothers).
How did you have Darl escape? And why would he be working with Mother Maggot for Dragotha?
I'll try to be succinct with Darl's backstory.
IMC, the Faceless One was a simulacrum of Darl. Darl himself is the leader of the Vecnan arm of the Ebon Triad, and therein lies the connection to Mother Maggot. However, it gets more complicated. Unbeknownst to Mahuudril, Darl is also the most powerful cleric of Vecna and is fully aware that the Ebon Triad is a sham. His goal is to uncover knowledge about the Age of Worms and turn it to Vecna's advantage if possible (and stop it if he must). In LoLR, he sought the fountain of dreams not for the knowledge of creating the Overgod, but for knowledge of the magic of the Order of the Storm (in particular, the spells the used to hide themselves from the world). He failed to obtain that knowledge, but through the PCs actions he learned of Dragotha's phylactery and realized that if he could obtain the phylactery he could use it to enslave Dragotha. Mahuudril didn't know of his treachery, or that he possessed the Hand of Vecna, and brought him along to help recover the phylactery. He attempted to take it from the PCs, even following one of the PCs to Magepoint. However, he was forced to flee when Agath showed up, and he plane shifted away.
Ran the fight last night--it ended up being the longest battle I've ever run--we started at 8ish, & didn't finish until around 1:00 am--a couple of the players left because they were extremely tired, so at the end, I was left with 2 players running 6 characters--not such a big deal considering I was effectively running a party of 7 characters (Darl, Malhazar, Black Fire, Nalhazzrath, Krekie, & the Sinfire twins) all by myself.
All that aside, I found a few problems with the enemy party:
1. Lack of flight magic. By the time the PCs face Darl, they'll be about 17th level. Most characters by that time will have access to spells or magic items that allow flight. Darl's band is poorly equipped for this, with only 3 of them able to fly. Give Darl, Krekie, & especially the Sinfire twins some potions of fly. This will make the later far more effective in dealing with those pesky flying magi & airwalking clerics, given Darl's tactic of placing silence spells on the twins.
2. Ranged attacks. The Sinfire twins have no ranged attacks (which without flight makes them even more ineffective against spellcasters), and most of the destructive ranged magic available to the enemy party (save Darl's spells), has rather low DCs. Give the twins, Nalhazzrath, & Malhazar some ranged weapons with perhaps some oil of magic weapon.
3. Poor spell choices. Some of Darl's selections I found suspect. A Quickened cure light wounds, at 18th level, is generally a waste of a 5th level spell slot. And given the fact that death ward has a duration of 1 min/level, giving Darl a quickened version is pretty much a waste of an 8th level slot, since he could pretty much buff with this long before initiative is even rolled. And while the text indicates that Darl will buff himself with spell immunity & greater spell immunity, it's only possible to have one or the other on a single target at a time, but he could give one to one of his allies.
4. This one has nothing to do with the adventure design, but does anyone else find it curious (ie, stupid) that nightmares, despite flaming hooves & snorting smoke, are not immune to fire?
As for how the battle went, it was a long, drawn out affair, lasting maybe 10-12 rounds in game time. I found it a real hassle to keep track of the various DRs, SRs, immunities, resistances, who the unholy aura affects, etc. One of the more obvious things I failed to do was employ the Hand of Vecna's blasphemy power--totally forgot.
The first few rounds were pretty much a stalemate, with only one character taking significant damage (a 102 hp crit from Malhazar's spirited charge). Nalhazzrath was banished by one of the PCs, but wished back by Malhazar--the PC's quickly decided he had to go, & he did before he had a chance to use another wish (following Black Fire). An invisibility purge eventually revealed Krekie, & her intended victim successfully saved against her death attack. The Sinfire twins were knocked into the negatives, but brought back with Darl's mass heal. Eventually, Krekie & Sabir Sinfire were slain, & Darl decided to cut his losses, planeshifting with Jalagar & Nalhazzrath.
Good chance he'll be back sometime in the future.
Overall, it was a fun encounter, but I'd strongly advise anyone planning to DM it to bring in a few extra players to help take the load off by running a few of the bad guys.
Being a cruel and sadistic DM, I second giving Darl disjunction as his 9th level domain spell. I had him cast that, set his lackeys on the PCs, and then sit back and watch. Sometime later, he decided to turn the tide of battle with his CL 20th blasphemy from the Hand... alas, the PC ranger had finally gotten within melee range by then, won initiative, and with a freak natural 20, hewed off the Hand of Vecna with his vorpal sword. If Darl had gotten off that blasphemy, I'm quite certain he and his surviving minions would have killed them all, or maybe all but one or two of them.
I'd consider trying to simplify his party some how. Its generally not a really good idea to run more then 4 unique enemies at any given time. Especially complex ones with lots of spells and abilities. Its simply asking more then any one person can reasonably handle to try and keep track of more then 4 types of bad guy.
Reducing the number of unique baddies might help here and making some of the support bad guys simple but effective (like say an archery expert for example) will tend to make the fights easier on the DM and usually more exciting for your players - since a confused DM really takes some of the fun out of a good fight.
Now I'm not saying all the bad guys should be simple - a well prepped DM can certianly run Darl with all the bells and whistles, it just helps the DM out if all his side kicks are not complex as well.
Indeed, you need to be well prepared in order to not get bogged down and/or forget things. Personally, I photocopied all the adventures and used a highlighter pen to help show the most important pieces e.g. AC, hp, immunities, key spells, saves, etc. I also scribble on the pages, making changes, and also adding in key tactics. I pre-plan a lot of options, and a lot of plans / general tactics. For the more Lawful opponents, it's a lot of "if this, then that, else..."m whereas for chaotics, it's actually best to just pre-plan the whole thing then it generally comes out seeming random.
Anyway, for Darl, do plan on a drawn-out fight, and one you'll need to give some serious thought to before hand in order to run it well. I changed a few spells, and changed his buffs and tactics a bit. I also gave him levels in Divine Oracle, as turning undead isn't really required for him, and it helps him be more divination focused as well as effectively giving him evasion as a class ability. So the idea was for Darl to be very onto it as far as information gathering goes, and also quite hard to kill. His minions were designed to be the major threat. But I didn't see I needed to change it much from as-written.
My players avoided him the whole adventure, so he only caught up with them once they were about to see the Druids. Basically, the two sides saw each other at a large distance, did their buffs, then the PC's flew in at great speed (wind walk) and the fight was on. Kreckie was invisible in the trees, and almost assassinated the party wizard after three rounds. Darl is basically the battlefield controller, so maximise the use of his troops. For me, the Efreet was really dangerous to the PC's, as he hits hard and crits easily, has flight, and can throw a quickened damage spell as a free action. As noted above, the monks were mostly useless fodder, but their speed means they can work OK with Darl (my PC's didn't use hit and run tactics with flight, as by this level they mostly worked best in melee with full attacks or spells). Darl's antilife shell worked a treat, helping lock down the battlefield - I moved him around lots and had my players scratching their heads at times to try and work into position. My PC's concentrated on killing Darl, not working out his true role for a while; the Efreet would have been a better target for them, especially as Darl escaped three otherwise fatal calamities by using one of the Efreet's wishes (I ruled it was a standard action for Darl to request a wish from the Efreet, as the rules are not clear; other DM's might not be so lenient). In the end, Darl ran out of proxy wishes and the wizard snared him with telekinesis, which he basically couldn't get out of (lacking any verbal-only spells). But my PC's were severely beaten upon by that stage. The remaining mooks were quickly dispatched or fled, which was what my players were hoping (although it took a lot longer for them to get there).
This battle should be the toughest of the adventure, so extra planning before hand should help it be the most memorable.
All very solid advice guys. Thanks for chiming in on this. I was just thinking about this fight the other day when I was running a MARVEL Superheroes game. The adventure ended in a superteam showdown and it was soooooo much easier to run than this high-level villain team vs. hero team clash in D&D. Lamentations abound in me. Sometimes this is exactly why I like simpler more streamlined games over D&D's ornateness.
Anyways hope the fight works out great for everyone! Thanks again to everyone chiming in with the awesome suggestions.
All very solid advice guys. Thanks for chiming in on this. I was just thinking about this fight the other day when I was running a MARVEL Superheroes game. The adventure ended in a superteam showdown and it was soooooo much easier to run than this high-level villain team vs. hero team clash in D&D. Lamentations abound in me. Sometimes this is exactly why I like simpler more streamlined games over D&D's ornateness.
I couldn't agree more (*see my original note on this subject a year ago above in this thread).
For example, we are playing 17th level characters in Savage Tides and our party (I am a player this time around) was attacked by 4 demons with 6 mirror images each and three other demons with various abilities. Well, our party archer begins his attack on one of the demons that had mirror images. I immediately shook my head in frustration and said to our DM "Wouldn't this be easier if we just say he rolls to see which arrows hit images and which hit him, and assume that every arrow that hits an image hits the image?" No, our DM wanteed to roll every single arrow out, and more frustratingly, the demons would use their standard action to conjure more images when ther current supply ran out.
Second example, same fight, same round: The arrows hit the demons, now we have to figure out how much damage they all do, and what type of damage. Tons of dice are rolled, amounts are tallied from the dice to the base damage, etc. I said, again in frustration "Wouldn't it be nice to just say the archer did Unearthly* damage?"
*100 pts for you non Marvel guys and gals.
Darl and the Disciples of Darkness were recurring enemies in my game, and the party loved them for it. OK, so they hate hate hated Darl, but they liked the idea of having a recurring enemy.
They fought the Disciples of Darkness the first time on board their ship, actually. When they saw him murdering Lashonna's informant, they circled, buffed, held hands, and teleported onto the orc pirate ship. As such, the Disciples were caught by surprise, and pulled a fighting retreat. A really nasty fighting retreat. The Sinfire Twins put the fear of Vecna into my players when they disarmed the scout of his trusty +3 silvered shocking longspear and dropped it into the Nyr Dyv. The cornugon got a few kills by dropping a fireball onto the party members who'd been stabilized or revivified after going down.
The second time, the party was more ready for the Disciples of Darkness, and most of them went down like chumps. Darl Quethos was the sole survivor - he managed to get off a quickened plane shift after being caught in an Evard's black tentacles spell. I'd ruled that his (otherwise useless) morningstar also served as the focus for his plane shift spell, a decision that resulted in some heated words because the party was sure they had him.
I'd also changed Darl's spell selection a little bit, and gave him a nasty one from Heroes of Horror called pact of return. It acts as a true resurrection if you're killed by the specific contingency you name upon casting the spell. After his scrying and spying proved that the bugbear archer was the most dangerous member of the party, he set his pact on her - and came back to life after she reduced him to -11 hit points in a single round.
Darl fight Number 3 was the final one - he interrupted the party's meeting with various Alhaster nobles to discuss plots to overthrow Prince Zeech, and brought along a few new friends: a giant vaporighu (shambling acid-dripping outsider from Gehenna) and Warduke. Yes, that Warduke. Unfortunately, despite some clever maneuvering, Darl met his end there. Filge, having been "promoted" to PC, animated both Darl and Warduke as devourers, partly for the intimidation factor and partly so that their followers and allies couldn't cast true resurrection on them later.
Which was really a shame, because I would have loved for them to have come back again.
I made one minor change to the group. I made the Sinfire twins into shifter battle dancers. I am running the game in Eberron and have a player running a battle dancer.
They were the first to attack and the PCs instantly knew what they were capable of and started taking actions to protect the archivist and the druid (the party's healers). When Darl and the others arrived at the end of the round, things started looking bad for the party. That is until the Archivist managed to banish the efreet on her next turn. Poof, no wishes for Darl.
Things shifted quickly in favor of the PCs. Darl barely managed to escape to plot his revenge.