|
If you buy this argument, (for the record, I think it makes a lot of sense) he might stay dead for quite a while. Don't hold your collective breaths..
If that Civil War: Initiative things proves to be true, this will rank as the number one lamest thing Marvel has ever done, especially considering that that one shot shipped the same week as Captain America did.
|
To the poster who asked how the dirty deed was done: I believe he was shot in the head by the mercenary/villain Crossbones while heading toward the courthouse after being indicted on federal charges.
Also, from what I've heard so far, it's already been admitted that he's not dead within the comics universe. If I'm not mistaken he's in the super-powered version of Gitmo.
EDIT: Marvel apparently issued a press release claiming that the statement suggesting that he was still alive was "not what it seems," and emphasizing that Steve Rogers is in fact dead...for now.
Actually, Crossbones (a henchmen of the Red Skull) started shooting at Cap, nailed him in the back, and Cap dove on a cop to protect him, at which point Cap's girlfriend, Sharon Carter, who had been brainwashed by the Red Skull, walked up to him an plugged him in the gut several times.
Well, here's a bit. Joe Quesada did an interview over at comicbookresources:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9914
here's the relavent bit: Captain america is dead.
"One thing that's been going around today was discussion of a sequence in "Civil War: The Initiative" where there was some talk that Cap was still alive. Can you address that for our readers?
I have not read the actual panels that were published, but the truth of the matter is it's a discussion between Ms. Marvel and Spider-Woman or something like that - and I'm about to SPOIL "THE INITIATIVE" STORY for everybody right here, right now, so stop reading if you don't want to know - but what Ms. Marvel is trying to do is she's trying to trap Spider-Woman. She's actually giving her mis-information, none of that is true, but it is an element of the story that eventually gets revealed later on in the story. SPOILER OVER"
I haven't made it through the Civil War series yet, but I kind of guessed that Captain America couldn't come back. My theory is that Steve Rogers is Ronin (previews for the Initiative say someone different is Ronin).
Again, I haven't reached the end of Civil War, and it'll even be longer before I get to the Initiative.
Well, I think ol Capn was pretty disgusted with America; like most of us; I think he expemplified his role wonderfully; Am thinking some of you dont understand him as most Americans are misunderstoon around the world. I mostly read the X comic and he really dropped the ball with the X-men, but I love the Captains character because he has so many hard choices to make; you cant save everyone, but you try. He didnt have to be the smartest; the strongest, the fastest, he was just the best because of his heart, bigger than anyones, the world changed and roles changed and things are foggy as heck and there is no black and white and things are falling down; what could he do but keep on fighting for his belief. How appropriate someone shot him just like they killed the American dream personified. I am more of a Thor guy myself; but Thor and the Captain are buds and go back a ways so I got a lot of respect for Cap after all; Thor is billions of years old and learned to be more gracious, kind, humble and more heroic from the Star Spangled American.
Remember the death of Superman? Jean Grey? Hell, dieing in a comic book is a friggin' rite of passage.
There's actually an issue of X-men where Psylocke (or someone) says something like 'You're nobody until you've died and came back darling' to piss off Emma Frost. :)
Well leave it to MSN to be a day late & a dollar short.
http://find.msn.com/search.aspx?q="Captain+America"&c=0312+Captain+Amer ica&form=MSNHM3
Remember the death of Superman? Jean Grey? Hell, dieing in a comic book is a friggin' rite of passage.There's actually an issue of X-men where Psylocke (or someone) says something like 'You're nobody until you've died and came back darling' to piss off Emma Frost. :)
:) nice; i remember now
|
|
I guess June, 2008. He'll be back with Captain America #1.
Remember the death of Superman? Jean Grey, anybody? Dieing in a comic book is a rite of passage.
Yeah they killed Hawkeye in House of M and guess you showed up a month later.... I think Hawkeye takes the lame factor more than Cap...c'mon a deaf guy that shoots arrows....yeah exciting!! Cap was replaced once before with US Agent (some of you kids might be too young for that). Plus the talk of the Captain America movie (rumored screenplay writer from the Bourne Identity Trilogy) Cap wont be gone long...
Yeah they killed Hawkeye in House of M and guess you showed up a month later.... I think Hawkeye takes the lame factor more than Cap...c'mon a deaf guy that shoots arrows....yeah exciting!! Cap was replaced once before with US Agent (some of you kids might be too young for that). Plus the talk of the Captain America movie (rumored screenplay writer from the Bourne Identity Trilogy) Cap wont be gone long...
Please don't disparage my favorite Avenger, Clint Barton, like that. While Hawkeye's death in Avengers Disassembled was incredibly lame (as was the subsequent resurrection, death, and resurrection), the avenging archer himself is not lame at all. Hawkeye has been the lone self-made man amongst gods, legends, mutants, and armored battlestations. He is the only normal human that was not content to sit on the sidelines and allow others to do the rescuing and saving, but decided to show the others that he was just as good (or better in the case of facing off against Elders of the Universe like the Collector and the Grandmaster). As for being deaf, did you know that handicap was self-inflicted? Hawkeye risked, and suffered, permanent hearing damage in order to save his future wife and the lives of numerous other heroes. There is absolutely nothing lame about that.
To bring this post back to the topic of Captain America's death, while the story may have been well written (I wouldn't know due to the media coverage and e-bay speculators) the idea of killing Captain America is also lame. The geniuses over at Adult Swim had a bump last Thursday saying:
"Attention Marvel Comics
Y’all some idiots
You don’t kill off Captain America to make deep political statements
IT’S A *scribbled out expletive* COMIC BOOK
Stan Lee would have never pulled a New Coke maneuver like this
P.S.
Neil Gaiman already has deep statements covered."
Is it so wrong to want a healthy balance of fun, drama, action, conflict, and excitement in comics instead of tilting to the extreme of one aspect over the rest?
While I whole-heartedly agree with your defense and description of Hawkeye (THUNDERBOLTS FOREVER!), I disagree with the anti-killing-off-Cap thing. Characters should have the ability to live and die (and yes, occasionally come back. Occassionally), otherwise the heroics mean nothing. Why worry about dying when you know the character will come back eventually? I'd rather have a meaningful death and someone new underneath the mask. Cap's death a new coke-ish move? I hope not.
Well, it's the end of St. Patty's day weekend for me. I keep on thinking i'll get a good reply that hasn't been stated, and here it is:
Cap was a good hero. Not the fastest, not the strongest, and certainly not the dumbest or weakest. What made him was that he had a duty to perform, whether someone in the offices liked it or not. He did what was right, when the top offices were doing despicable things.
The whole show of things is, as stated, a political statement. Cap is an image. We all remember the Cap that draped himself with the flag, called to arms all the American patriots, and led them into a battle. THAT is what I remember Cap for. By killing him, you kill the image of the hero for duty's sake. You killed the image of the greater man, a step above, a good person is dead.
A statement, even a political one, must be made in context. Blindly making a statement, knowing full well that those in office in the REAL world won't be looking, is just silly.
/d
|
|
Yeah they killed Hawkeye in House of M and guess you showed up a month later.... I think Hawkeye takes the lame factor more than Cap...c'mon a deaf guy that shoots arrows....yeah exciting!! Cap was replaced once before with US Agent (some of you kids might be too young for that). Plus the talk of the Captain America movie (rumored screenplay writer from the Bourne Identity Trilogy) Cap wont be gone long...Please don't disparage my favorite Avenger, Clint Barton, like that. While Hawkeye's death in Avengers Disassembled was incredibly lame (as was the subsequent resurrection, death, and resurrection), the avenging archer himself is not lame at all. Hawkeye has been the lone self-made man amongst gods, legends, mutants, and armored battlestations. He is the only normal human that was not content to sit on the sidelines and allow others to do the rescuing and saving, but decided to show the others that he was just as good (or better in the case of facing off against Elders of the Universe like the Collector and the Grandmaster). As for being deaf, did you know that handicap was self-inflicted? Hawkeye risked, and suffered, permanent hearing damage in order to save his future wife and the lives of numerous other heroes. There is absolutely nothing lame about that.
To bring this post back to the topic of Captain America's death, while the story may have been well written (I wouldn't know due to the media coverage and e-bay speculators) the idea of killing Captain America is also lame. The geniuses over at Adult Swim had a bump last Thursday saying:
"Attention Marvel Comics
Y’all some idiots
You don’t kill off Captain America to make deep political statements
IT’S A *scribbled out expletive* COMIC BOOK
Stan Lee would have never pulled a New Coke maneuver like this
P.S.
Neil Gaiman already has deep statements covered."
Is it so wrong to want a healthy balance of fun, drama, action, conflict, and excitement in comics instead of tilting to the...
Not to knock Hawkeye around (as he used to be one of my favories in the 80's in "Avengers Spotlight"-geez I feel old), but the purpose of House of M was to eliminate all the mutants/heroes/villans that would have no change/advancement to their role in the comic book society. Has Hawkeye really changed in the last 20 yrs? He got an armored suit was really the most significate thing that I ever remember him getting and that was back in like 1993. So he got lame in my mind, as did Quasar(another of my favorites) and they made him fly deeper into space with Epoch to defend the universe(which pretty much takes the cake for the most lame demise of a character). Its the same for Cap.....He's STILL the SAME!! He throws a shield and beats guys up. Its the same thing he's done the last 40 yrs, but he is an icon of Marvel. Spiderman has changed(the alien suit, comic powers, his mutations), Thor has changed numerous times and died, Ghost Rider has changed(Johnny Blaze to Danny Ketch(sp?) not sure if there is a new one) ect.... The point is characters/stories that dont sell get the axe(or the author gets tired of writing about them) or they get a shake-up in their storyline(see "Death of Superman" or The Breaking of the Bat" from Batman)....its true in any publishing company. It be like WotC killing Drizzt Do'Urden and then a year later having him return(and boy if they did that it prolly would be ugly)... Cap is prolly not selling as many issues as they would have liked...well guess what...we make an announcement like, "We're killing Capain America!" and now we are selling that comic... If Marvel had an announcement stating that they were gonna kill Quasar or Hawkeye, do you think it would really have much of an influence on comic sales? Prolly not since those two guys arent icons of Marvel(although comic fans did send Marvel lots of letters expressing that they were stupid for killing Hawkeye).
Very few characters are beyond the ability of a good writer or editor to come up with good stories. So if you have a character was good once, and isn't anymore, its usually because you have a poor writer, or a editorial staff that is micromanaging the characters all to hell. For example, Ed Brubaker is generally regarded as a good writer . . . yet some people aren't happy with this storyline . . . which seems to lead me to editorial micromanagement.
Not to start a company war, but as Marvel is killing off "dead weight" and doing things to shock people into buying comics (and getting great sales, I will admit), DC seems to be really fleshing out and developing a lot of "hopeless" old characters in 52, Justice League, and JSA. DC went the "shock" route back when Superman "died" and Batman handed his mantle to Azrael (WTF?).
Personally I'd like to just avoid Marvel until Joe Quesada hands the reigns over to someone else. Between shock value stories and letting his artist pals turn in increasingly late projects, I just don't have the same vision of Marvel that he does.
Oh, and for anyone that points to recent sales and cites that Marvel must be doing something right . . . I seem to remember record sales during the "four variant chromium cover" era, when such "well regarded" stories as the Spider Clone Saga happened.
Preach on Knight Errant. I'd rather have interesting things happen- and I hope Cap's death is one of them- than just plain shock value.