Other posts have been working with this idea, so I thought I'd start fresh and give a couple of reasons why I (back in my uberzealot days) roleplayed several times a week but would not touch D&D and how I came to love it.
My big problem wasn't the violence. I was introduced to gaming through Vampire and Cyberpunk and played them every day, and when I wasn't playing those I was playing Paranoia. Gamers tend to think most Christians are scared of the violence in D&D. That just ain't it at all.
For me my skiddishness was mostly the religious stuff. The idea of "evil gods" and "demons" being the stuff or recreational gaming made me really uncomfortable. Even the idea of "good gods" was too much an open endorsement of idolatry for my liking, revering another god--even at the gaming table--weirded me out a bit.
Likewise I was a little disturbed about all the "magic" in the game. I wanted to know where it came from in game, how it could be explained as being anything but pure infernalism (since much of my honest college-library research at the time had led me to thinking magic was pretty universally powers granted in exchange for faustian pacts and invocations of demons in hermetic circles and the like).
Thirdly, D&D was a lightning rod. Gamers like me refused to play D&D because it had a reputation as being what happens when roleplaying goes too far. It was famous for those kids in the 70's who hacked people up with real swords. It was nice for me, because when people wrenched up their faces with that "you're a kook" look and asked if I was into D&D I could calm them down by explaining the difference between D&D, which was the weirdos, and the other roleplaying games that I played in. There's a stigma against D&D, even amongst roleplayers.
So what got me to come around to the point now where D&D is my favorite game? Well first, good exposure to the game in the safest of ways--video games. In my case, Baldur's Gate. If something happens in a video game I'm uncomfortable with, I can shut it off or load a saved game and nobody gets mad at me. Likewise I am alone to play the game, not surrounded by people who are already "indoctrinated" and pressuring me.
You'd be suprized how many anti-gamers already read game books. If they tell you how evil D&D is, find out if they read Dragonlance. If they say they do, then you can blow out a sigh of relief and reassure them that what they read there IS D&D in its purest form, that there are no darker mysteries beyond that.
Another route to go is to get them talking about fantasy books. The Wheel of Time is fertile ground here, but most fertile of all is The Lord of the Rings. Even the most religious of people love these books, and if they understand that when you say "evil god" what you mean is "Sauron" or "Shaitan" they will almost always go glassy eyed for a second as the realization hits and then become cool with it and go "Oh..."
Failing that, go for movies. I always pitch roleplaying games as being like playing Star Wars or Willow, but being able to take the game wherever you want. For religious folks, the biggest benefit--and I can't sell this hard enough--is that they are free to take the game where THEY want. Uncomfortable with sex scenes in movies? Wish a great movie wasn't ruined with foul language? Wish that character you liked hadn't proved himself a dirtball halfway through the film? Wish you could have taken the sleezy jerk in the movie that everyone seems cool with out into an alley and sackbeaten him? In roleplaying you can! Nothing happens in it that you don't want, and whatever you want to happen does! Those words are magic, especially to a christian community that feels like its held hostage by the media, that feels like they have no input.
Anyhow that's my two bits.
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In my early adolescence, my brother and I gamed with two brothers who were friends of ours (2e had recently come out at that point). Eventually, the other kids' parents decided we were a bad influence on their children with our D&D and put an end to it.
My brother and I are clean, employed and doing rather well (arguably very well in the case of my overpaid brother) and last I heard my childhood friend was in jail. Heh. They wouldn't want their kids to be like those wicked D&D boys, now, would they?
Good post Grimcleaver!
Although it's still quite beyond me why someone (anyone) can take offence at something like a make-believe-story-telling-game, whatever your beliefs are.
Ultradan
I DMed for a creationist Baptist in college. His take was "It's a game, duh."
Yeah, I guess it is a game after all, but there are a lot of things for people that they aren't comfortable doing--even in a game--things that make them uneasy and uncomfortable. For some that might be in game drug use, homosexuality, rape, torture, whatever. There's lines that people don't like to cross for whatever reason. For a lot of religious folks (and granted this was much more of a big deal before pagan religion mainstreamed and is now largely considered as much a legitimate religion as buddhism or hinduism) one of the things that makes them uncomfortable is roleplaying "idolatry".
I guess I largely outgrew this perspective mostly through maturity. As I came to love other real world religions more, and be more and more fascinated by them--the more I enjoyed fictional theology and religion. Its the philosophy and cultural plurality of D&D that for me nowadays is one of its biggest benefits.
For those with understandable hangups however, it's good to understand what makes them uncomfortable--or vicariously uncomfortable where their kids are concerned. My take anyway.
This is the most informative post I've read in a while. Living in NYC, I don't meet many folks who are skittish about d&d (at least for religious reasons) but it never hurts to be informed about THE OTHERS ;)
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Although it's still quite beyond me why someone (anyone) can take offence at something like a make-believe-story-telling-game, whatever your beliefs are.
Because ideas have power. And that's true whether the ideas are yours or WotC's, or John Locke's, Karl Marx's, or those in the Bible.
I'm pretty sure I can find someone to sincerely describe each of those as "make-believe-story-telling". I can also find someone to describe each of them as "powerful". Some of the people in each category are "me".
(I say that without any statement of my own belief or lack thereof, and without any intent to offend anyone.)
Now, I'm just curious. With the preponderance of religious threads out here that are mostly related to Christianity and gaming, are there any Muslims, Jews, Hindi, Buddhists, Shintoists, or Atheists that are radically offended by D&D? Or have the fundamentalist Christians just hogged the indignation cake all for themselves?
James Keegan brings up an intersting point. I have never heard a perspective on D&D from any religion other than Christians.
James Keegan brings up an intersting point. I have never heard a perspective on D&D from any religion other than Christians.
I cannot speak for ALL muslims, but the vast majority I know do not like D&D, surprisingly for the same reasons fundementalist christians don't like it (demons and devils, multiple gods etc...). That said I do know a couple of guys who do play it, but they are not religious at all, and they hide their hobby from friends and family.
Sad, but apparently closemindedness is not monopolized but one religion only.Be safe all.
Although it's still quite beyond me why someone (anyone) can take offence at something like a make-believe-story-telling-game, whatever your beliefs are.Because ideas have power. And that's true whether the ideas are yours or WotC's, or John Locke's, Karl Marx's, or those in the Bible.
Exactly. In many ways playing RPGs is more involvement-demanding and intense than, say, watching a movie about the same subject...and while I have no sympathy for broad censorship (consenting adults and all that), I would consider it important to keep track what kind of movies do minors watch...and in this sense I can understand the concern about effects of gaming to the children.
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Good post. "How to sell D&D to wary Christians"
A few thoughts --
Time. Overall, the perception has come a LONG way in the last ten years. The look of the game has come a long way towards looking far more neutral than evil. More and more Christians that I talk to don't really even have an opinion on the game as they don't really know anything about it. You will find that most of the people who have a really strong opinion on D&D being so evil are quickly approaching retirement age. I don't know that you will be able to "sell" them on D&D at this point, but then again, I don't know that it matters much any more.
Secondly, try and understand where the Christians (or whomever) are coming from. There are witches in the Bible. Christians believe in angels, demons, and other ideas that are found often in the Bible. Putting these concepts in a game can feel like people are trivializing their beliefs -- and to a point, since D&D is make believe, it can sound like the idea of angels and demons is make believe, which can sound like an invalidation of their beliefs.
Last, a lot of it is fear about assumptions that are not well grounded. Basically, the "get out of the rain -- you will catch pneumonia" syndrome. Back in the 80's they pulled Wile Coyote/Road Runner from the networks because a whole mess of moms counted the number of "violent acts" in one episode and said that this wasn't healthy programming. They were concerned that people would jump off of cliffs or tie rockets to their backs to see what would happen. This idea is going away, but it is still around to some degree. "People cast spells in D&D and I don't want my child casting spells."
How to sell D&D...?
Introduce them to the Dead Alewives (sp?) skit.
Be sensitive, be honest. What is D&D to you? For me it is a time to get together regularly with some of my best friends. It is a time when I can release a lot of tension from the previous work week. It is a social event where I can relax and have fun. I'm not sure how important it is to say much more than that unless they want to join in the fun.
How to sell D&D...?
Introduce them to the Dead Alewives (sp?) skit.
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing this morning.
"Dungeons and Dragons... Satan's game!"
Lol, Aberzombie :)