The only "miracle" is that people seem to be willing to pay real money for it.
How terribly uncivil of you, Moff.
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The only "miracle" is that people seem to be willing to pay real money for it.How terribly uncivil of you, Moff.
You must be rubbing off on me. ;-)
Seriously though, most of the stuff that I've read about really is silly. French Fries, pancakes, I think I read one time about a vomit stain, ... seriously? There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.
The only "miracle" is that people seem to be willing to pay real money for it.How terribly uncivil of you, Moff.You must be rubbing off on me. ;-)
Seriously though, most of the stuff that I've read about really is silly. French Fries, pancakes, I think I read one time about a vomit stain, ... seriously? There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.
And with my luck I'd walk into the middle of a crowd and chomp down the dish of Messiah Fries without realizing what was going on. Next thing you know I'm being chased down the street with pitchforks. How those folks get their hands on pitchforks so instantaneously continues to baffle me.
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And with my luck I'd walk into the middle of a crowd and chomp down the dish of Messiah Fries without realizing what was going on. Next thing you know I'm being chased down the street with pitchforks. How those folks get their hands on pitchforks so instantaneously continues to baffle me.The only "miracle" is that people seem to be willing to pay real money for it.How terribly uncivil of you, Moff.You must be rubbing off on me. ;-)
Seriously though, most of the stuff that I've read about really is silly. French Fries, pancakes, I think I read one time about a vomit stain, ... seriously? There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.
It's a miracle!
It's a miracle!And with my luck I'd walk into the middle of a crowd and chomp down the dish of Messiah Fries without realizing what was going on. Next thing you know I'm being chased down the street with pitchforks. How those folks get their hands on pitchforks so instantaneously continues to baffle me.The only "miracle" is that people seem to be willing to pay real money for it.How terribly uncivil of you, Moff.You must be rubbing off on me. ;-)
Seriously though, most of the stuff that I've read about really is silly. French Fries, pancakes, I think I read one time about a vomit stain, ... seriously? There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.
LOL. That would explain it.
There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.
How is their faith different from yours?
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There's gullible, and then there's ... wow.How is their faith different from yours?
It may not be. We're not talking about "faith".
I could almost understand wanting to own a specific relic. Most relics that I know about have some story behind where they came from or how they came to be and the story behind it is fairly significant.
If God will only speak to me if I buy an oddly shaped french fry off of eBay, there is something seriously wrong with me (ie somehow I got put on God's "ignore" list) or something wrong with what I believe.
At the very least -- not everyone can obtain the "holy fry" (or whatever). I believe that God is at least accessible to everyone.
At the very least -- not everyone can obtain the "holy fry" (or whatever). I believe that God is at least accessible to everyone.
Holy Fry. Sounds like a 70's album with the potential for great cover art.
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Holy Fry. Sounds like a 70's album with the potential for great cover art.
At the very least -- not everyone can obtain the "holy fry" (or whatever). I believe that God is at least accessible to everyone.
Either that or something Robin would say to Batman. "Holy French Fry Batman. The Penguin sure does eat quite a bit."
Either that or something Robin would say to Batman. "Holy French Fry Batman. The Penguin sure does eat quite a bit."Holy Fry. Sounds like a 70's album with the potential for great cover art.
At the very least -- not everyone can obtain the "holy fry" (or whatever). I believe that God is at least accessible to everyone.
Funny... I had that Batman thought too. :) I know what we watched as kids.
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So does this make their faith less then since they need a physical connection to the divine?
An interesting question. What is "more" faith as opposed to "less" faith? There are a number of passages that talk about faith "the size of a mustard seed". I'm not going to judge that one way or the other.
At the same time, the Catholic practice especially seems to put value in certain items. Things like prayer beads, candles, icons, crucifixes, etc. I don't necessarily feel that any of these are bad or make one have "less" faith. At the very least, it's a reminder. But as I understand it, each of those items has a purpose or a reason and a practice that surrounds it. Seeing the holy mother in a pancake doesn't really fall under that at all.
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So does this make their faith less then since they need a physical connection to the divine?An interesting question. What is "more" faith as opposed to "less" faith? There are a number of passages that talk about faith "the size of a mustard seed". I'm not going to judge that one way or the other.
I'm not asking about the size of their faith, but the value. Does hoarding God make you less faithful? (in the sense that maybe there is something wrong with it).
So what is the difference between coincidence and an actual miracle when it comes to food and salt stains?
About ten gawkers or $50.
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I'm not asking about the size of their faith, but the value. Does hoarding God make you less faithful? (in the sense that maybe there is something wrong with it).
"Wrong with it"?
In the end it depends on what you believe. In the end I'm not sure that it matters. But here are a few random thoughts.
How can you "hoard" God? Assuming he's big enough for the whole world, there's most likely enough to go around. But you're probably talking more about icons and similar stuff.
My personal opinion would be -- if you feel that there is power in the icon, then I really feel that would be wrong. I do not believe that God needs or has any "magic items". If, however, you feel that it is nice to have or it helps you keep your faith, then that's fine.
While there are some verses that might imply that it's better to have faith without "seeing" -- John 20:29 "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.'" -- there really isn't that much to indicate how they will be "blessed" or what exactly that means. In the end, assuming all else is essentially the same, they would end up in the same place.
Where it becomes a problem is if a person believes that possession of an icon will save a person. Not only is that not Biblical at all, it's illogical (even moreso than it already is) to believe that the only way to salvation is through a holy pancake.
At the same time, the Catholic practice especially seems to put value in certain items. Things like prayer beads, candles, icons, crucifixes, etc. I don't necessarily feel that any of these are bad or make one have "less" faith. At the very least, it's a reminder. But as I understand it, each of those items has a purpose or a reason and a practice that surrounds it. Seeing the holy mother in a pancake doesn't really fall under that at all.
Officially the church is pretty cagey about relics and artifacts. The things used to be almost mass produced. The medieval period knew enough pieces of the True Cross to assemble a small navy and enough bits of Jesus's foreskin to make at least one sail for said navy. Relics were a cause for tourism and got good donations, so it was economically smart for any church to get one if it could. These relics could be almost anything, up to and including a viscous fluid that's just this side of solid at room temperature but will flow with human body head applied. ("The saint's blood does not dry!")
The church does not, as a general thing, weigh in on the authenticity or powers of the relics in its care. Officially it holds them as a kind of holy memorabilia collection that people can come and see as a religious exercise. In effect it says that the people coming doing the veneration and such are the thing, not the scrap o' whatever behind glass. (It does weigh in on the authenticity of the powers of various dead religious people, though these are often as tawdry as any bit of the holy foreskin.)
A holy pancake is certainly silly. So is a holy foreskin (by the way, I am not making that one up). But then tribute bands are a bit silly too. Or visiting Graceland. I heard some people even pretend to be elves and dwarves and go off to fight evil.
Now thinking one actually was an elf or a dwarf and going off to fight evil, that's a different thing. One could get worried about a person doing that.
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I've seen people call images of Jesus spray painted on walls as blasphemous, and though no one saw anyone do it is not considered a miracle. They logically assume that human hands probably crafted it and not a swarm of angels or an aliens-for-Jesus rally. That potato chip that looks like Jesus could be holy though?
Drawing the line at where things begin to get silly is necessary in my opinion. I wish Logic was a required course in high schools across the country.
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I've seen people call images of Jesus spray painted on walls as blasphemous, and though no one saw anyone do it is not considered a miracle. They logically assume that human hands probably crafted it and not a swarm of angels or an aliens-for-Jesus rally. That potato chip that looks like Jesus could be holy though?
The fact that some things will appear as certain shapes at random is fine. Spray paint automatically assumes human hands, but what if the earth settles and a crack appears in a wall that appears to look like Jesus? Or a turtle? Or an AK-47? Does that mean that the wall suddenly has magic powers? Or has additional "value"? In my opinion, giving power to things like that is a dangerous practice. What does it mean if the crack looks like the devil? Or what does it mean if you can't figure out what the crack is supposed to look like?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Well, the phenomena that include such stuff as the Virgin Mary grilled cheese are elements of certain mystical strains of Christianity. Obviously Catholicism has a strong mystical strain, but that isn't universal even to Catholics. Mainline Protestants tend to the nonmystical, but the Charismatic movement brings mysticism back in a big way.
For my part, I think if God really wanted to, he could communicate via grilled cheese, salt stains, or whatever. Certainly I believe God is communicative. I'm not receiving on the grilled cheese freq, but maybe somebody is...? That's the beauty of freedom of religion: nobody gets to tell you how you can or can't relate to the divine.
Edit: This discussion has made me crave a grilled cheese.
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I've seen people call images of Jesus spray painted on walls as blasphemous, and though no one saw anyone do it is not considered a miracle. They logically assume that human hands probably crafted it and not a swarm of angels or an aliens-for-Jesus rally. That potato chip that looks like Jesus could be holy though?The fact that some things will appear as certain shapes at random is fine. Spray paint automatically assumes human hands, but what if the earth settles and a crack appears in a wall that appears to look like Jesus? Or a turtle? Or an AK-47? Does that mean that the wall suddenly has magic powers? Or has additional "value"? In my opinion, giving power to things like that is a dangerous practice. What does it mean if the crack looks like the devil? Or what does it mean if you can't figure out what the crack is supposed to look like?
Well that is part of the problem, crop circles also assume human hands but people will come up with an excuse for their appearance as alien visitation or dancing fairies. It doesn't seem to matter what the most likely explanation is, some people desperately need mysticism in their lives to fill some void they have in their psyche. They long for mystery.
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Addendum: I mean mysticisim in the sense of something super-natural or otherworldly... not specifically religious mysticism.
I understood what you meant. I think that it's interesting just how much -- still -- that people seem to need to believe in the supernatural. Even with all our science and explanations to everything, people still want to believe in "magic".
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Addendum: I mean mysticisim in the sense of something super-natural or otherworldly... not specifically religious mysticism.I understood what you meant. I think that it's interesting just how much -- still -- that people seem to need to believe in the supernatural. Even with all our science and explanations to everything, people still want to believe in "magic".
Its not just on the religious side of things either. I mean, just turn on SyFy and you'll find Ghost Hunters... History Channel has UFO Hunters* and MonsterQuest. People will try to use scientific techniques in order to explore the supernatural, usually to no avail or at best they'll get something questionable. :\
*With UFO hunters they don't really do anything scientific, they just crab that Skeptics just don't get it.
It doesn't seem to matter what the most likely explanation is, some people desperately need mysticism in their lives to fill some void they have in their psyche.
Reminds me of the conversation of the stage magicican James "The Amazing" Randi and a spectator, which purportedly went something like this:
GUY: You're a charlatan!
RANDI: Yes, sir, I am! All magicians are! We do tricks for a living!
GUY: No, I mean you claim they're tricks, but you're really using supernatural powers.
RANDI: They're really just tricks. Just because you don't know how they work doesn't make them supernatural.
Edit: This discussion has made me crave a grilled cheese.
And I went off wanting but not getting fries.
THE POWER OF FRIED COMPELS YOU!
Just because you don't know how they work doesn't make them supernatural.What an apropos statement, with general application to any number of topics *cough* evolution *cough* in this thread.
Um, may I ask as to what the *cough*....statement....*cough* is referring too, good Sebastian?
So, posters background. Being born and raised in a Protestant founded, secular country I was introduced to institutionalized religion in the middle of my formative years, one could say. While a certain type of religion was also woven into some of the selective schools I attended, as I grew older and thought about the tenants that were being espoused and comparing them with the world I saw around me I never really 'felt' anything towards said religion.
So, here I find myself an adult and in no real need of any sort of power to make my world go around.
I stand forth and say I am a happy Atheist. *bows*
Though I fear my lack of any form of more developed education will mean I do little more than fade back into the shadows and continue to read, becoming once again a following 'lurker'.
To discussion!
Cheers!
Though I fear my lack of any form of more developed education will mean I do little more than fade back into the shadows and continue to read, becoming once again a following 'lurker'.
I never let my ignorance stop me.
I never let my ignorance stop me.
*bows* Thank you for that vote of confidence. :)
I never let my ignorance stop me.*bows* Thank you for that vote of confidence. :)
Ignorance is a curable condition. :)
Ignorance is a curable condition. :)
*nods* Hence why reading many and varied topics is so much fun. :)
Ignorance is a curable condition. :)
Unfortunately, many mistake the medicine for poison.
So, posters background.
Thanks! And welcome to the boards.
I really dig your screen name, by the way.
Um, thank you. At the time I didn't quite understand how things work 'behind the scenes' so to speak and was quickly trying to create a character for a PbP.
I chose the name after a favorite Fan-fic character I've created, but enough about such things and back to talking about the realities of life. ;)
Cheers!
Today in church, the preacher mentioned they did not have an Easter egg hunt on the first Easter.
I can't imagine why not.
Today in church, the preacher mentioned they did not have an Easter egg hunt on the first Easter.
I can't imagine why not.
Depends whether you are talking about Easter the celebration of the goddess of spring and fertility or the co-opted one with jesus.
Today in church, the preacher mentioned they did not have an Easter egg hunt on the first Easter.
I can't imagine why not.
Surely it was lost in all the confusion, what with the recent zombie apocalypse and all.
I mean, if a mess of dead guys crawled up out of their graves and ran around my town you can bet I'd probably forget to paint, hide, and then seek out eggs. You can't blame a person for letting a few things slip right after an event like that. Kind of like how you forget to sit up straight when someone knees you in the groin, or how remembering not to scream and run around goes right out the window when someone lights you on fire.
We've all been there.
Yes, but did they have extreme bikes?
Interesting that the Pharisees and Pilate were so concerned with securing the tomb with all the other dead running around.
Yes, but did they have extreme bikes?
The Video said:
"Their fast, their furious and their looking for souls"BADASS to the extreme!!!
Have we figured out if there's a god yet?
Um, which one? ;)
^_^ Cheers!
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Have we figured out if there's a god yet?Um, which one? ;)
^_^ Cheers!
I'm not picky...
;)
So far no one's dsputed the existence of Great Atun, the Turtle on Whose Back the World is Carried.
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Have we figured out if there's a god yet?Um, which one? ;)
^_^ Cheers!
I'm not picky...
;)
So far no one's dsputed the existence of Great Atun, the Turtle on Whose Back the World is Carried.
** spoiler omitted **
Turtles and elephants? Throw in a few badgers and maybe a wolverine and I'm down. Oh, and some kind of sexy fertility goddess or something. And Sno-Cones.
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Turtles and elephants? Throw in a few badgers and maybe a wolverine and I'm down. Oh, and some kind of sexy fertility goddess or something. And Sno-Cones.Have we figured out if there's a god yet?Um, which one? ;)
^_^ Cheers!
I'm not picky...
;)
So far no one's dsputed the existence of Great Atun, the Turtle on Whose Back the World is Carried.
** spoiler omitted **
How about Eostre, the original bunny girl? Plus, she has chocolate.
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How about Eostre, the original bunny girl? Plus, she has chocolate.Turtles and elephants? Throw in a few badgers and maybe a wolverine and I'm down. Oh, and some kind of sexy fertility goddess or something. And Sno-Cones.Have we figured out if there's a god yet?Um, which one? ;)
^_^ Cheers!
I'm not picky...
;)
So far no one's dsputed the existence of Great Atun, the Turtle on Whose Back the World is Carried.
** spoiler omitted **
Chocolate Sno-Cones?