I'm resurrecting an old character I created back in 2nd Edition...
A high elf with a pretty unique name I think I pulled from some imaginary alien race I came up with stories I was working on way back in the day...
I resurrected him from his very short career in the last days of 2e, as a 3.5 Warmage/Fighter build. Now, this isn't the kind of build that oozes skillpoints- that is one complaint with the Warmage Class, while they may be drilled to be spontaneous arcane casters with a set spell list they never really have to continually study or learn later- also sort of weird...essentially while they may be created to be walking artillery, I am more of the opinion that the class should be more like, at least my concept of, the 2e War Wizard or at least a member who is very educated through a War College- such as the type that may seek to train Warmages in the first place.
The problem I have with the Warmage isn't so much the lack of skill POINTS (I rolled well enough to be an elf with decent str, dex, con, wis and EXCELLENT Int and Cha), but CLASS skills. Sure they get reamed about as fighters on being able to have skills...but the limitation of knowledge skills that really help in say TACTICS and STRATEGY (well, other than history- which I think was the best choice if they could only pick two knowledge skills as class skill or even leadership kinda annoys me. Sure, intimidation makes sense, and I'm not exactly opposed to making the Warmage of similar skill level to a fighter with magic feats and special abilities over bonus feats...and I don't mind the progressions copied from the Sorcerer...too much. (the same amount of spells per day is actually pretty powerful.)
That and hey, while Complete Arcane simplifies spell casting for schmucks like me, I'm still someone who doesn't mind researching additional spells more than every few levels. (I do like the evocation school for the "Advanced Learning" spells though.)
While I might complain about the class, I'm well aware that for people who want to pump certain stats would do well to do similarly to what I did for my warmage- high int and cha essentially allow for more damage dealing.
This is sort of where the Warmage starts to feel...almost overpowered...in addition to spell level and bonus spells being CHA based- damage is added to spells via INT bonus AND most conveniently- there is no actual need to prepare spells ahead of time, though the text is SLIGHTLY confused about this outside the more precise Game rules section (in that they must recall them from their "unconscious"- which allows for a certain weakness for the creative PC/NPC/DM to exploit...) Oh, and better hit die than sorcerer too. Not to mention proficiencies...
While I would probably go with Human for either a straight Warmage or another build, I like that I chose Elf for two reasons- racial abilities and longevity and Elven weapon proficiencies (though this is useless if you go fighter/warmage rather than warmage/fighter- for starters anyway. Especially if you do as I did and build with it fighter and warmage ranks coming at the same time to the game) and say access to Elven Chainmail.
But yes, the real point of starting a thread:
What do the Loards of the Boards (Forgive my phonetic exaggeration) think of the Warmage Class, specifically the abilities and spells there of?
Over-powered or Nerfed? And I ask this now, although it has surely been discussed before and I'll further search the archives in a bit, because it has been a bit longer a span of time since Complete Arcane came out and some people might still be playing Warmages they made soon after it came out, some people might just be starting out on it...
And yes, I am aware of certain Role Playing flexibilities offered by build suggestions from the Player's Handbook 2, I just lack the volume in my collection, but will have access to it when I show up to play the character.
I am generally satisfied with the idea of my build- character wise. Though I am aware of the more stringent description suggesting that such a class be more restricted in training than I would have it be even without multi-classing as a fighter (which I find worth it for a couple higher hit die here and there and a bonus feat now and then +martial proficiencies and so forth)
I've found the "Advanced Learning" ability to be the most flexible part of the class aside from cross-class skill usage...it isn't as fun as looking through a huge tome of spells and finding that special spell you didn't know about- but it IS good for looking through a huge tome of spells and finding that special new/different EVOCATION spell you hadn't didn't know about/hadn't considered.
I've yet to play past essentially a lvl 7 warmage (multiclassed fighter), and it wasn't in a balanced campaign at that, so I'm a little ignorant as to the class's actual playability- especially at higher levels- with or without multi-classing (theoretically I could reorganize my build so that the fighter class isn't even used rather than just used less).
The last thing I'll mention (finally, right?) is the metamagic feats, the only really cool thing aside from getting them is that if your character already has one on the list...you can pick ANOTHER metamagic feat- which was something I hadn't realized when I first played the class and got doubled in level by a DM giving Ad hoc XP (the guy is a little...inexperienced... with lower levels)- this is a detail that makes the Sudden Metamagic feats featured in the Complete Arcane a little more advantageous actually, if you can manage to accelerate or get some of the metamagic feats out of order, you can get say that Sudden Quicken you always wanted instead of Sudden Maximize at top level.
Additional: Possibly the only annoying thing about non-core base classes (whatever they're called), aside from being a bit...broken, is that none are going to be considered favored classes by any core race- outside of humans and half-elves of course (an under-appreciated feature of half-elves I might add, not that I've done a poll of half-elf players who clearly multi-class for this reason.)
Can't stand 'em. Lack of verstility in terms of spells, abilities, and skills is a deathknell for the class, for me. If you're into miniatures and tactical battles, I could see it being an attractive option, but that's just not my bag, baby.
Sorry this didn't help. Just had to say it.
This has come up before regarding non-core base classes. In short, the non-core classes are specialized instead of broken.
The warmage fills one role, magical artillery, very well, but at the expense of being able to fill other magical roles well (or at all). The issue many people have with the class is that direct damage spells are generally weak against higher level foes (which usually have high hit points, energy immunities/resistances, and spell resistance).
It might be slightly more powerful than a sorcerer, but that's not saying a lot. The sorcerer has always been the weakest primary spellcaster in the core rules. The only benefit the sorcerer had over the cleric, druid, and wizard was the ability to spontaneously cast any spell he knows. The other classes have animal companion and wild shape, bonus feats, or domain abilities and turn/rebuke undead.
As far as multiclassing goes, straight warmage for a high elf is usually the best choice. Prestige classes are trickier; good choices include argent savant, blood magus, elemental savant, and fatespinner from Complete Arcane. For a wood elf (with ranger as the favored class) warmage, multiclassing as ranger and taking arcane archer and/or eldritch knight can be an attractive option.
In Complete Scoundrel there's some kind of ray specialist that allows you to do extra damage with ray spells-- a substantial portion of the Warmage's targeted effects.
Spellwarp sniper from Complete Scoundrel . . . you can turn any direct damage spell into a ray, and then you get bonuses to your ray damage if you catch your opponents flat footed or flanked . . . but you need to have sneak attack/suddenstrike damage of some sort to qualify as well.
Assuming you can figure out all the pros and cons of various multiclassing options, here's a few choices.
1. Warmage/fighter - you have already said this is an option for you, but frankly its not the best from my point of view.
2. warmage/barbarian - an interesting choice if you have access to the right feats and prestige classes. This combo can work well with the Lucid Raging feat (which appears in one of the DUNGEON mags) or with levels in the rage mage prestige class (Complete Warrior).
3. Warmage/duskblade - If you have access to PHBII, this combo can be an interesting one. The duskblade's special abilities and spells can make it a more attractive option than a warmage/fighter in the right persons hands.
4. Warmage/Spellsword - another interesting combo if you're opting for a more heavily armored spellcaster who can channel his spells through his weapon (like a duskblade).
5. Warmage/Bladesinger - an aesthetically pleasing combo if nothing else.
6. Warmage/rogue/spellwarp sniper - a beautiful combo with ray spells that gives you more skill points (8 + Int) and access to the spellwarp sniper prestige class (already mentioned above) in Complete Scoundrel. I think an adaption of this class that allows the scouts skirmish ability to be used as a prerequisite for it would be nice.
7. Warmage/Force Missile Mage or Warmage/elementalist - blast your enemies to smithereeens with force or energy spells.
Have you checked out the War Wizard of Cormyr prestige class from Magic of Faerun? It's a five-level class, but it hasn't played out to be particularly overpowered through the course of my campaign.
Have you checked out the War Wizard of Cormyr prestige class from Magic of Faerun? It's a five-level class, but it hasn't played out to be particularly overpowered through the course of my campaign.
I haven't checked it out, but I will do so like...now.
Still, I'm actually interested in locating the 2nd Edition War Wizard info, at least I have access to like all the materials for 3.5 that would pertain to multi-classing options.
To the other people:
I saw the Spellwarp Sniper prestige class, and will certainly look into building a warmage along those lines- the extra skill points may be a bonus, but honestly- if you roll well enough or pump up Int well enough- 2 skill points + int isn't as bad as it would be for Fighter/Warmage. at least you won't have to worry about miscalculating from class to class...
I am a little annoyed by how limiting the spell-list is, but I'm willing to do a modicum of research to enhance the warmage with specialized less damage dealing evocation spells. (which can be tactical though not necessarily as support, buffing or as utilitarian.)
If I do another multi-class warmage build (my stats are high enough and I like the character enough as to not really bother me as far as minor details or future changes).
But while the character might have done well as a ranger or a duskblade and future characters might be very well suited to such class options, the extra feats aren't a bad move I think...fighter feats make the decently stated elf character more viable in combat and enhances the class skills enough for physical uses. Essentially, I've built a decent soldier and a decent blaster, he doesn't overly excel at either task, but so far I'm playing it well.
And, after having played well last week, my only regret wasn't spending 2 of my skill points on Knowledge Dungeoneering.
I even managed to actually save my fellow PCs, most directly my sister's character AND her animal companion.
Luckily her stunned druid had wild-shaped into a bird and the DM allowed the rather favorable lifting rules to apply to my character picking up her and her panther, climbing the dungeon wall to avoid being sandwiched by a couple of Gelatinous Cubes- who were handily taken care of by us three casters using fire magic, the other one being a fighter/sorcerer.)
I HIGHLY recommend spells like flaming sphere for situations like that- 4th level Warmage, 4 rounds of 2d6 fire damage + Warmage's Edge.
But yeah. I'm having fun, but I doubt I would have as much fun if I played a straight warmage or didn't have a good character idea.
I'll agree that it isn't BROKEN, just specialized.
Some House-rules tweaking of Warmage or Sorcerer, favored classes for sub-races and the like...they might work well, but as is, I'm happy with my build. If I were to do a Living Greyhawk Warmage, as I've considered since starting this thread, then I'll definitely go human, though I'll consider going half-elf (free multiclassing +elven abilities and supposed diplomacy skill bonuses would be a boon for a build similar to the one I've mentioned here).
Still, as far as non-core classes for say Living Greyhawk, a friend of mine played a Duskblade, and fair-enough when we got in dire straights in an intro mod with the fighter failing his will save against fear and my somewhat battle oriented cleric faltering as well...it was the Duskblade with the win, though he nearly bought the farm like my St. Cuthbert guy almost did.
I would recommend the Warmage, and especially a combat multiclass build, and though I might have done well with a straight Elven warmage- free weapon proficiencies in everything but my Ranseur, sacrificing feats in favor of spell levels, I don't regret my decision even if just for going with the better HD at the cost of spell levels. (torching those is going to hurt at higher levels even with better BAB, but it'll allow the sorcerer and druid to shine more even while I'll be doing more damage with similar spells)
Anyway, I recommend the class with the caveat that it ISN'T for people who LOVE primary spell-casters, or even support casters. It is for Blasters, and people who take a more fighter approach or prefer fighters or soldier style play and would be considering a spontaneous caster.
Duskblade would also be good, and though I don't have the PHB2, I think the HD and other qualities compete better as a fighter/caster build than warmage by a good bit- though being an ARMORED caster is practically enough with other boons to warmage.
Thanks people. (still, seriously 2nd edition information on the War Wizard would be nice for future 2nd Edition games, but I thank Lilith the most for the Magic of Faerun referral.