I was informed by one of my players that another campaign will be starting up and was wondering if/what I wanted to play.
My "comfort zone" as some have put it, is playing an archer. But, as an experiment, I've decided to try playing a spell-caster. A bard to be more specific.
I have a couple of questions, nothing big, but I know very little when it comes to casters and what-not.
Looking through the PHB, I noticed that a lv1 bard has access to only 2 lv0 spells a day out of 4 known. Do they get bonus spells p/day based off their CHA, or did I just not research enough?
Aside from the obvious RP capabilities of the class and the bardic music abilities, what are some other routes bards can be taken?
-Kurocyn
Spells known is always fixed; nothing can help you there.
A Bard gains bonus spells for high Charisma, but not his 0th level spells. (don't ask why :S)
So, for first level you will be stuck with only a few spells. But remember, spellcasting is not the Bard's strong suit. His strong suit is being able to do everything moderately well ;)
And he's a great supporter.
If you want to go straight Bard, from a rules situation, there are plenty of roads to go. Scout or support magician are probably your best shots. Go high on the social skills; Bards make excellent leaders, negociators and diplomats.
With a generally high Dex, Bards can also scout and infiltrate, and at somewhat higher levels their spells will better help them with that.
And last, but not least, Bards make great distractions. They can keep an entire town occupied (if used well) so that the other party members can go about and do what they must, without anyone stopping them.
If you don't mind multiclassing, you can go just about any route. Just pick a class that shines in the road you want your bard to take. It doesn't hurt to pick a few levels of Fighter for a combat bard, or a few Rogue levels for a sneaky bard. Sorceror might be an option, you will have an awesome amount of low level spells, but keep in mind you will never have access to the high level ones.
And on a Roleplaying note: any performer can be a Bard. You don't háve to play the lute and sing songs for the king.
A rowdy Half-Orc with a set of hammers who bashes on dented Dwarven helmets as a set of primitive drums and makes a big show can also take the Bard class.
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As Frats says, bards are not great on the spellcasting front in terms of raw power. As the spells levels are relatively low (maximum 6th) the DCs on the spells are also lower, and so easier to resist at high levels. So don't go too heavily for spells which are subject to saves, as they will be saved against more than a wizard/sorcerer/cleric/druid of the same level who will have access to higher level spells.
Where a bard excels is in support casting. He can Haste the party fighters, knock down the golem with Grease, Cure Wounds. He doesn't really get powerful evocations anyway, so that sort of stuff can be left to the party wizard or sorcerer. So look at those types of spells. The key to a good bardic spell selection is to not be too obvious.
It would probably be easier, in some respects, to play a wizard on a first outing as a spellcaster, since they have the iconic spells (Fireball and so on). You will probably need to check out the choices on offer as a bard as they are more specific to particular situations. If you don't fancy that, and you have the option, check out the PHB2 for the beguiler. They have a not-dissimilar spell selection and array of class skills, and you don't have to choose which spells to memorise as beguiler just knows all of thier spells from their (restricted) spell list.
Perhaps the best bard role is indeed generic support for the rest of the party. Besides bard songs, I recommend picking spells which enhance performance of the other characters, battle boosts, resistances and guidances, healing...
Diplomacy is of course the other forte of bard.
Otherwise depends a bit on what other characters there are and which roles do they fill. If there is a rogue to do rogue business, bard can then concentrate on some of the more peculiar skills, like those knowledge skills, languages etc.
Multiclassing should be considered based on this too: if bard needs to be the rogue, better take some levels of that. If there is lack of fighting power, having couple of levels of fighter is good choice (or better yet, how about barbarian or ranger? Both rely less on armour as does regular fighter).
Multiclassing into another caster class is usually not worth it, result is typically considerably weaker than single class. The only exception I can see for this is taking first couple of levels of bard and then going to full sorcerer.
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A bard can be the highest damage output character in almost any group. The extra attacks that people get from Haste is all damage the Bard made happen. The +1 or 2 to attack rolls means that everytime anyone hits something the bard just did 1-2 pts of damage. I think every party with more than 4 players should have a bard (from my experiences with bards in my groups). A well-played bard is a constant party buffing, back-up healing, skillful negotiating, Stealthy lil' guy.
For a bit of a dark bard you could use various sized monsters' skulls mounted on a short pole and tapped with a small mallet like a Xylaphone(sp?). Spells like summon monsters, summon swarm, Tasha's hideous laughter, cause fear, and crushing despair would all add to the Death Singer's dark flavor. Good threat to the BBEG: "Your skull looks to be about a D minor....can't wait to add it to my Skullpole."
FH
I liked the D minor comment. ^ ^
Really, I wanted to start with a bard due to their versatility, not their power. I'm not one for using magic, never have been. As such, the artillary casting of the wizard is far from appealing. Plus, I don't like the whole, "guess what spells you need today" gimmick.
I tend to use skirmish tactics, so playing support-caster role is fine with me. I'm planning on taking improved trip to use with a whip, allowing me to aid in combat more.
NPCs won't be a problem. I'm looking forward to hamming it up as the party's designated distraction.
I don't know what the other players are going to be, nor what the DM is planning for the game, so I'm working on a "cookie-cutter" bard using just the PHB. That way, there's no random source-book info or stat for him to read up on.
So far, he's got fairly average abilities (9-15), a whip and a kukri, uses a masterwork flute for his music, and has improved trip (needs 1 more feat)... I'm thinking weapon finese, but I'd like to enhance his casting or at least his bardic music. I was looking at the Extra Music feat, but I think that was in ComAdv. The additional 4 uses of bardid music would be nice though...
-Kurocyn
Keep in mind that a masterwork flute gives you a bonus on your perform check, at the cost of requiring both hands to play the flute. A bard can use his bardic music abilities while engaging in combat, but only if your performance style leaves your hands free. You may want to put enough ranks into Perform (singing) to fall back on that when you want to use your weapon and still use bardic music. Alternately, select an instrument that can be played with just one hand (harmonica, ocarina, or talk to your DM about having a selected set of "inspirational" melodies that only use the limited range of notes you can produce on a flute with just one hand.)
.I'm working on a "cookie-cutter" bard using just the PHB. That way, there's no random source-book info or stat for him to read up on.
Bless you. That's about the nicest thing I've ever heard a player doing for their DM.
Thank you Sexi Golem. ^ ^
I just figured it'd be easier on everone if I don't have to re-make my bard when we should be starting the game. ( I know that I hate it as DM, so why do it to another DM?) Plus, nobody in my group has ever used a bard, so if I can learn as much as I can about it, then we won't have to stop every time I want to use his music or spells.
Speaking of which, he couldn't play his flute in combat? Is that only when within X feet of an enemy? Or is it only if threatened? Does it cover this in the PHB?
-Kurocyn
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Thank you Sexi Golem. ^ ^
I just figured it'd be easier on everone if I don't have to re-make my bard when we should be starting the game. ( I know that I hate it as DM, so why do it to another DM?) Plus, nobody in my group has ever used a bard, so if I can learn as much as I can about it, then we won't have to stop every time I want to use his music or spells.
Speaking of which, he couldn't play his flute in combat? Is that only when within X feet of an enemy? Or is it only if threatened? Does it cover this in the PHB?
-Kurocyn
The combat comment, I think, refers to the fact that you can't swing a weapon while your hands are occupied with a lute. That's why so many people make singing bards: their hands are free.
If, after playing the campaign for a while, you decide you want to do something a little different with your bard, consider the Seeker of the Song or Sublime Chord (Complete Arcane) or Virtuoso (Complete Adventurer). None of those requires any extraordinary preparation from the start; most bards will qualify for them when they reach the appropriate level anyway.
The combat comment, I think, refers to the fact that you can't swing a weapon while your hands are occupied with a lute. That's why so many people make singing bards: their hands are free.
Oh, ok. That makes sense, but I'm not planning on playing while activly in combat. ^ ^
As for a prestiege classes, I've looked at the virtuoso, but I haven't seen the others. I like the virtuoso though. Thanks for the advice.
-Kurocyn
So far, he's got fairly average abilities (9-15), a whip and a kukri, uses a masterwork flute for his music, and has improved trip (needs 1 more feat)...
What level are you starting at? Improved Trip has Combat Expertise as a prerequisite, so I'm wondering how you have another feat available.
Using just the PHB, some other good feats as a support-caster and whip user include Dodge, Improved Counterspell, Improved Disarm, and Improved Initiative.
Personally, I think information is one of the remarkable resources of the Bard, whether gained with Bardic Lore, Knowledge skills, and the ability to deal with others (through magic or skills).
I like to focus on that aspect when I play one. Unfortunately, there are games & campaigns where it is more feasible (dungeon crawls are one of the Bard's worst setting, though pure wilderness can be worse).
My two cents,
Jack
Maybe I'm harsh, but if I had a player try to use a harmonica in one hand, a weapon in the other, and perform while fighting I would seriously consider asking them to leave. The whole "this is a fantasy game" only gets you so far in my opinion.
Mind if I ask what race your bard is? (I'm sure I just missed it somewhere in the original post). I'll second the information gathering suggestion. Hopefuly you'll be lucky and play in a fairly urban campaign where you can truely shine, but even if your out in the woods or a dungeon you'll be alright assuming your DM is willing to work with you.
When you said, you'll be the distraction, are you planning on making something akin to a jester? Or just the fast talking always quick with an excuse as to why your friends are doing what thei're doing type?
I assume the bard is human and you have two feats to start with - which does only get you to Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (assuming Int is at least 13). With the whip and kukri, Weapon Finesse is probably a safe bet for your next feat assuming the Dex warrants it (you also cannot take it at 1st, for it has a prerequisite BAB of +1). Spell Focus can be OK, but as others said, I would focus more on buffing, not offense. Two-Weapon Fighting (assuming Dex is 15) and Skill Focus (Perform) may also be good choices (your perform checks set the DC for some of your Bardic Abilities). Finally, Craft Wand may be good at higher levels - wands of Haste are always a welcome friend.
- IO
Two weapon fighting can be okay, but I'll just throw out a word of caution. It often seems that if someone isn't a full caster or isn't using a shield (which surprisingly few people do), they need to have a two-handed weapon and enough Strength to really benefit from Power Attack, or get a high enough Dexterity to perform Two-Weapon Fighting. Two-Weapon Fighting can be pursued and be very powerful just because of the number of attacks one gets in a round, but you eat up a huge portion of your feats for this.
The real issue I'd like to address with a bard, however, is the Base Attack Bonus. I personally wouldn't craft a bard with Two-Weapon Fighting unless the ability score you plan on using for attack rolls (Strength, or Dexterity with Weapon Finesse) grants at least a +3 modifier. Otherwise, combined with a Base Attack Bonus only equal to 3/4 of your bard level, the extra attack just makes you suck twice as much in a round, because that additional -2 on the rolls can make the difference between "capable in battle" and "lacking in battle." Not to mention, multiclassing and prestige classes can shoot that down the crapper even further.
Again, there seems to be a lot of pressure to make sure both hands are utilized with weapons of some kind, or a shield at least. While slapping on a buckler still leaves room for spell casting (granted, with an annoying 5% arcane spell failure rating), there's really nothing wrong with a bard or rogue or other secondary combatant just picking up a one-handed weapon and going for it (I would advise a fighter or other frontliner to do something with both hands, whether it be a two-handed weapon or a shiled or two-weapon fighting, because it just seems the right thing to do).
Well, that was needlessly long and probably not very useful. :) Happy bard-ing!
Oops. I forgot about the combat expertise requirement. I decided to go with dodge, then pick up either weapon finese or skill focus:preform at lv. 3. ( We're starting at lv 1, as far as I know.)
He is human by the way, so two feats.
Though I'm not for sure what type of game the DM is going to be running, I'm sure I'll get him to work. ^ ^ The Extra Music feat alone allows me to help in multiple encounters, so even in the wilderness/dungeons, I should be of some use.
As far as bardic music and combat, yeah, I'd never allow it as DM, so I'm not even going to try. But playing off to the side while the party fights is another story.
I'm definately planning on staying behind the fighter/barbarian/combat-guy of the group though...
-Kurocyn